Long Game 68: Studies of Ashyn

[Mist]

Just now, Ashbringer said:

My post wasn’t up 2 hours ago... or maybe it was and my

And as I said, fake-claiming roles leads to Elims suspecting who has roles with much greater accuracy. Especially since the Elim team ostensibly knows some roles already from having them within their own ranks.

And, Silber wanted us to all fake seeing players’ Alignments. While I see the possible benefit, as when a real scanner dies their “fake guesses” become much more dependable, it also becomes a storm of contradictions and accusations where people can’t tell a baseless/faked suspicion from a real one. Plus then we have the fun endeavor of dealing with a dead Elim’s “faked” alignment scanning, which delves into an IKYK black hole.

 

And Pyro, TJ, how about we all come together and agree that we shouldn’t grill the (sorta) new player for the specifics of their alignment from their starting GM PM in any circumstance or ruleset?

And my?

[The Young Pyromancer]

Just now, Ashbringer said:

My post wasn’t up 2 hours ago... or maybe it was and my

Cut off there.

[---]

3 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

And Pyro, TJ, how about we all come together and agree that we shouldn’t grill the (sorta) new player for the specifics of their alignment from their starting GM PM in any circumstance or ruleset?

I mean, the "(sorta) new player" is me, and I don't really mind.

I guess it could potentially be distracting a bit but I...I don't think so? final last words before I get lynched for that though

Edited August 3, 2020 by Illwei
Er, the "(sorta) new player" is me right? it would be awkward if i missed something

[The_God_King]

10 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

No, confirming roles based on the exact wording of GM PMs is not allowed. 

Anyone want to confirm?

Since confirming specific wording within the GM chat could immediately break the game (as with any SE game) I'm going to veto this for now. @Elbereth can supersede me as the IM, if she thinks differently. @TJ Shade

 

[Ashbringer]

6 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I mean, the "(sorta) new player" is me, and I don't really mind.

...Huh. Could’ve fooled me 

Still, I don’t like it. It’s bending the rules at best.

Edit: yes, that’s you.

7 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Cut off there.

Oh, I did? I’ll 

2 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

Since confirming specific wording within the GM chat could immediately break the game (as with any SE game) I'm going to veto this for now. @Elbereth can supersede me as the IM, if she thinks differently. @TJ Shade

 

Well, that is both relieving and tantalizing.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Ashbringer

[Mist]

6 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I mean, the "(sorta) new player" is me, and I don't really mind.

I guess it could potentially be distracting a bit but I...I don't think so? final last words before I get lynched for that though

That's the impression I got.

 

Thanks, Ash /sarcasm

Edited August 3, 2020 by Mist

[---]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

...Huh. Could’ve fooled me 

Well, okay depends on what we're talking about.

I do mind taking direct quotes about my alignment and putting them here (something I apparently don't have to worry about now)
I don't mind them asking
I do think TJ is kinda suspicious for asking, as either he thinks/is trying to check if Research Intern is a role, or He knows Research Intern is not a village role, and is trying to get me on saying it is. As I don't see how anyone could know that their alignment assignment green/red thingy is the only wording of it I am inclined to lean towards thinking him suspicious.

Idk i have nothing else to go on for the time being and plenty of time to switch my vote

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

40 minutes ago, Mist said:

I think the GMs would lean against alignment scanners. If everyone claims, it will create confusion, so I would recommend against doing this. And it's possible roles won't be revealed.

Roles do get revealed on death, so we would know whether the 'scans' of someone who claimed alignment scanner were real upon their death. Since PMs are apparently open, there's less reason for any knowledge gathering role to claim in thread.

34 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

We know there's two teams. there could be a whole bunch of solo players, each of them being their own faction.

All we know is that there are two teams, but one team being 'the infiltrators' and the other 'the non-infiltrators' suggests that everyone is either one or the other with no independent players/factions.

 

[---]

27 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Still, I don’t like it. It’s bending the rules at best.

Well, that is both relieving and tantalizing.

You don't like the idea of roll claiming based off quoting wording in the GM PM but you find it tantalizing that it's not allowed? (also relieving, I see)

[|TJ|]

4 hours ago, Mist said:

I know that's an MU thing. This reads as that to me, from our rules.

Quoting is the important word. According to that we are not allowed to role-claim, but we do that all the time. Just that we need to do it in our words, not GMs. 

4 hours ago, The_God_King said:

Since confirming specific wording within the GM chat could immediately break the game (as with any SE game) I'm going to veto this for now. @Elbereth can supersede me as the IM, if she thinks differently. @TJ Shade

Okay, sorry for creating any problems  

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

You know, giving you the answer to that could either incriminate me as a Elim if I'm an elim and don't know the correct wording, 
or it could give the Elims what might be the proper wording for the village faction. so, for now I guess-

In most of the games (in fact all I've played), the known alignments have a specific name given in the sign-ups. This game doesn't. It doesn't contain the name of the village alignment I've been given anywhere in the signups (villagers you can check and confirm with this, should prove that I do know the name). Why would I be even bothered with knowing the name of the village alignment when no one was questioning it in the first place, if I was an elim?

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

I do think TJ is kinda suspicious for asking, as either he thinks/is trying to check if Research Intern is a role, or He knows Research Intern is not a village role, and is trying to get me on saying it is. As I don't see how anyone could know that their alignment assignment green/red thingy is the only wording of it I am inclined to lean towards thinking him suspicious.

I'm not asking you about your role, I'm asking you what the name of the village alignment is (which is moot now). Why wouldn't it be the only wording of it? Why would the GMs send different wordings for the same alignment. It'll only serve to create more confusion.

Anyway if you were an villager, you'd know that the name is neither of the two I mentioned (villagers, another point in my favor, you know that it isn't Research Intern or Silverlight Intern). 

Illwei If you were a villager, I'd assume you would doubt me for giving out 2 names that aren't the actual names of the village, not for whatever reason you gave.

Edited August 3, 2020 by TJ Shade

[Ashbringer]

4 minutes ago, Illwei said:

You don't like the idea of roll claiming based off quoting wording in the GM PM but you find it tantalizing that it's not allowed? (also relieving, I see)

Tantalizing that it could break the game. For alignment specifics, it’s pretty obvious what could be broken, but it also could be referring to something I found... cryptic in my GM PM. Although I’m not giving any more hints on that front.

Also, the word “immediately” is always a fun one to see in these games, from the GM or otherwise.

TJ, while you may have a point, I don’t know how much I like said point. Because it seems to be exactly what Elkanah said not to do. Although getting hung ip on your methods went FANTASTIC in the QF so I’m not going to push it... much.

I’m going to sleep for hopefully a good 8 hours or so, so... night!

[---]

9 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Illwei If you were a villager, I'd assume you would doubt me for giving out 2 names that aren't the actual names of the village, not for whatever reason you gave.

9 hours ago, Illwei said:

I do think TJ is kinda suspicious for asking, as either he thinks/is trying to check if Research Intern is a role, or He knows Research Intern is not a village role, and is trying to get me on saying it is.

You know, giving you the answer to that could either incriminate me as a Elim if I'm an elim and don't know the correct wording, 

That was why I doubted you, I just didn't want to say anything on it really.  Anyways-

TJ Shade Sure why not that's enough reason for me to not want to kill you right away 

If anything I guess I should be sus on Pyro for seemingly thinking I roleclaimed, but Pyro is so chaotic I'll never know what to think. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Illwei
combining quotes is fine i don't have the energy

[|TJ|]

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

For alignment specifics, it’s pretty obvious what could be broken, but it also could be referring to something I found... cryptic in my GM PM.

Lightweaver confirmed  

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

TJ, while you may have a point, I don’t know how much I like said point. Because it seems to be exactly what Elkanah said not to do.

Well...yes. But they said revealing the specific wording is not allowed, and I didn't. But yes, I can see why it should be frowned upon. I'll admit I'm in the grey area heading towards darkness. I'll come back.  No more mentions of anything pertaining to them name of the village alignment. 

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

  1 hour ago, TJ Shade said:

You know, giving you the answer to that could either incriminate me as a Elim if I'm an elim and don't know the correct wording,

Umm, that is not quote by me. That's a quote by you. In other words, I'm quoting you not quoting you, but quoting me, whereas you should have been quoting you.  

Bah, I had promised myself that I'd play this game casually, and I break it the first moment I notice something suspicious. Sorry Illwei, I was aggressive. That has been a flaw of me, and I need to learn how to play Kasually.  

So... in an attempt to play casually, here's a "road not taken" meme  

Spoiler

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by TJ Shade

[---]

4 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Lightweaver confirmed  

Well...yes. But they said revealing the specific wording is not allowed, and I didn't. But yes, I can see why it should be frowned upon. I'll admit I'm in the grey area heading towards darkness. I'll come back.  No more mentions of anything pertaining to them name of the village alignment. 

Umm, that is not quote by me. That's a quote by you. In other words, I'm quoting you not quoting you, but quoting me, whereas you should have been quoting you.  

Bah, I had promised myself that I'd play this game casually, and I break it the first moment I notice something suspicious. Sorry Illwei, I was aggressive. That has been a flaw of me, and I need to learn how to play Kasually.  

So... in an attempt to play casually, here's a "road not taken" meme  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Lol whoops I thought I grabbed it from my post didnt even realize that lol

Edited August 3, 2020 by Illwei
Too lazy to edit out the stuff I want to respond to

[Kasimir]

3 hours ago, The_God_King said:

Since confirming specific wording within the GM chat could immediately break the game (as with any SE game) I'm going to veto this for now. [Elbereth] can supersede me as the IM, if she thinks differently. [TJ Shade]

@Ashbringer 

52 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Bah, I had promised myself that I'd play this game casually, and I break it the first moment I notice something suspicious. Sorry Illwei, I was aggressive. That has been a flaw of me, and I need to learn how to play Kasually.  

 We’re not free in what we do because we’re not free in what we want. We can’t overcome what’s deep within us.  

[Straw]

7 hours ago, Illwei said:

ok
Ha Ha very funny we're all research interns o_o (I have no idea a good emoticon for a straight? face) Or maybe you're a very special coffee run intern
EDIT: I edited it

Edited 7 hours ago by Illwei
You sound hostile so I retract my statement

Could you clarify what this said before you edited it?

8 hours ago, Lord_Silberfarben said:

Don't worry, I will be the only one awake since I think I am in the opposite timezone to you.

 

also, does anyone think we will have a role that sees alignment?

I think for their sake everyone should claim to have seen someone's alignment. if everyone claims the real role won't stand out, and when they die they will be confirmed as that role, and their targets confirmed good/evil

I think that that strategy probably isn't the best idea. It lets the elims narrow down any alignment scanners very quickly. Another negative factor is that we actually have to keep up the act, which messes with our play a bit too much for my comfort. If we say we scanned someone as village, we have to also act like they're confirmed village, and hide any suspicions on that person that we might develop.

I'm also kind of confused by the assumptions you're making here?

[Lahilt]

Ok, checking in here. I am currently at work. I will voice my suspicions later, as requested by mist, when I get the time.

[+Lotus]

So, if so many people live in the PNW (now I’m wondering if I maybe know any of you IRL )

The how is it that I woke up to freakin 35 replies?

Oh, wait, I guess most people don’t go to bed at 9 and wake up at 6....

[Mat]

Wow, you guys sure are prolific  guess I forgot how active LG D1's are.

Re: Silber's plan, I basically just agree with everybody else. It would mess with the gameplay making everyone require that, and just cause confusion.

Not entirely sure what the TJ/Illwei thing was. I should reread that part.

Throwing out some quick reads of those two from my impression, though, TJ seems weird- though as I've said many times he always seems weird to me- so I don't think that's AI, at least for me, and Illwei just seems villagey, though he's significantly more active than his other games. We'll see what happens when as the cycle progresses.

Time for RP!

Edit: @Lotus, I too live in the PNW, Washington State

---

grumble grumble grumble

Farns hobbled down the hallways of Silverlight, keeping to the left side of the room. He had a permanent scowl on his face, and his hands were shaking. That blasted arthritis. he could thank his mum for that one. She never could walk right before she died, no sir, too much pain. And of course in his old age, Farns suffered from the same fate. He rounded a corner to find his dorm room, a small box of a living space with a small cot and a wooden desk, and heavily sat down on the former, letting out a groan. The pain.

He squinted around the room, his eyes adjusting to the dark in contrast with the lamp-lit hallways of Silverlight. It was late, he thought- though it was hard to tell here, sometimes- and he needed to rest his tired body. So many thoughts were flowing through his mind. He had been around for too many years. Knowledge was crowding. Especially terms, and formulas, and all sorts of things that had to do with his line of work: Agriculture. And however tired he was, he was fully committed to studying the flora and fauna of Ashyn. It surely was bound to be interesting. He eased himself into the thin blanket, and heard joints pop. This blasted arthritis.

He was out before the spike of pain faded.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[+Lotus]

I’ll do a analysis and RP after I go for a run. 

[Kasimir]

Dreams change. Other things become important.

Well, thought Maris, as he swept at the floor. Things had gone...well. If by well, he meant mislabeled samples, disappearing research, and twitchy supervisors and extremely disgruntled PIs. The worst was the PIs: the two PIs leading the project had called them all together at an ungodly hour to tell them that some research had gone missing. As if Maris would know anything about it. Why would he?

Being accepted as an intern on the Ashyn project seemed like a dream. Silverlight was the first time he'd gone off Scadrial, and somewhere that wasn't the world of ash and mists that he'd left behind seemed just the project to be on. 

With his supervisor conferring with someone else, the best place to be was visibly busy, and so Maris was sweeping out the floors, another cog in the chain of unpaid physical and emotional labour that seemed to form much of academic research in Silverlight. If it wasn't being asked to make a cup of tea, it was being asked to come back in at odd hours, or Lord Ruler forbid, on the weekend to check in on the samples, or to log records because of course his supervisor wouldn't do it. That was work for Maris Erikell, who had wondered not for the first time, if running away from a decent if boring apprenticeship to one of the Heron watchmakers in Tremredare was...really all that it was cracked up to be.

Probably not.

The PIs had said, rather ominously, Maris thought, that they would be required to weed out the saboteurs in their midst. Fine. Maris didn't like the idea much, but the Ashyn expedition had been interesting, and he'd already learned more than he would have expected to pick up from Kadrim's watchmaking workshop. So there was that.

He sighed. Kadrim had always liked to set him to work cleaning up the workshop, throwing the sooty windows open to let in thick, gorgeous sheets of weak sunlight. The sun here...wasn't right. Or wasn't quite the same. Maris was still trying to wrap his mind around how the realms worked. Silverlight was strange. Kadrim had always said a clean workspace meant an uncluttered mind. Or was it that cleanliness was next to godliness? (What that said about the Lord Ruler, Maris did not know.)

Perhaps Frozen Mint knew something about what was going on?

[Gears]

[Concerning Dr. Gears's chronology, since this takes place before Stormlight and therefore takes place before LG67, he's alive at this time. Since I didn't RP with him during QF46, he didn't die then. I know players play with dead characters, but I'm going to try and make it realistic. If Dr. Gears dies in this game... well then, I've already failed.]

Dr. Gears put on gloves and began labeling samples. For some reason, his fellow interns refused to follow protocol and accurately label their samples. It wasn't that difficult. Before he had actually arrived on Ashyn, he had been looking forward to investigating Ashyn's magic system. Now that he was actually on the planet, he was quickly disillusioned as to the wonders of internship. Missing samples, intern espionage, mob mentality, and many more incidents had quickly ruined the experience. Hopefully he would survive this and become a full researcher. Internship didn't even provide any life insurance. 

Concerning Silber: People have said this already, but given that we don't know if an alignment scanner exists, we shouldn't do this. Also, [I have made this mistake a few times] you are assuming that everyone will agree to this. If not everyone does this, it will fail.

Concerning Illwei-TJ Shade conflict: I don't think there's anything special here, though keep Illwei's research intern comment in mind. It might be a role, it might be an alignment, but it's not the plebian villager state. TJ is always this aggressive, despite his best efforts. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Gears

[+Lotus]

Lord Silber: Says that everyone should claim to have seen someone’s alignment. Really dont like this idea, but Null for now.

Ash: Say we don’t know if their is a alignment scanner whatsoever. Role speculation isn’t helpful. Cryptic, huh? Null.

Striker: Not a good idea to reveal a alignment scanner. Null.

Gears: Talks about how he suspects the roles work on this game. Null

Pyro: Pokes at Striker. Says there must be two teams. Bad TJ. Null

Teft: RP.

Illwei: Asks if we all interns. Pokes? At TJ. Takes it off.

Arias: Says that the best way to ‘unblack’ is to lynch. True, but just continuing the game also helps.

TJ: Asks Illwei to confirm wording, talkies with Pyro, then votes Ilwei. I don’t like this, but I’m unsure.

Mat: Fun RP, think TJ always seems weird (Which is true). I’m always inclined to trust Mat, but I’ll hold off judgement for now.

Kas: Cool RP, commented on some other stuff I don’t have the patience to sumarize. Null.

Quote

 

Lucy was really hating this summer job. She could have been a intern to the historians at the library, but no they had said that she wasn’t needed. So now she was stuck at this stupid dead-end internship in bio, which she hated! Well, she liked biology when it was the fuzzy cute little animals, but not microbes! This was stupid. To compound that, it had to be investiture as well, which always gave Lucy a headache. 

 

 

[|TJ|]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

TJ seems weird- though as I've said many times he always seems weird to me

How am I being weird? I get the feel that you're trying to project a state of normalcy. Like you know you found me weird in all games you've played as village, and just stating this fact might make you seem village. 

29 minutes ago, Lotus said:

True, but just continuing the game also helps.

Continuing the game how? The only way to continue the game is through the lynch.

[Mist]

3 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

How am I being weird? I get the feel that you're trying to project a state of normalcy. Like you know you found me weird in all games you've played as village, and just stating this fact might make you seem village. 

Continuing the game how? The only way to continue the game is through the lynch.

I think Lotus means that we find/figure out more as we get farther into the game.