What is Jasnah hiding?

[+Oltux72]

There is a cult of secrecy among the Alethi and Jasnah really embodies it. What could be sensitive enough about her trip to Shadesmar that she keeps it a secret even from her own family? And what is this going to do to the concept of sharing information relevant to the war effort among members of the coalition? Does Jasnah suspect a mole?

[Turtle]

um so I think I posted something on reddit about this, a lot of people think she's comer aware and/or Khriss was her master. I'll try to find the link.

[Ansalem]

My first guess would be knowledge of other worlds and probably Silverlight. If any Radiant would be a Worldhopper it would be an Elsecaller. Plus she's a scientist and historian. And keeping this information secret probably wouldn't make much difference for the war effort. If anything, sharing it might serve as more of a distraction than a help.

Aside from things we just can't know about yet, that makes the most sense to me. Well, it's really the only thing I can think of, to be honest.

[Innovation]

8 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

My first guess would be knowledge of other worlds and probably Silverlight. If any Radiant would be a Worldhopper it would be an Elsecaller. Plus she's a scientist and historian. And keeping this information secret probably wouldn't make much difference for the war effort. If anything, sharing it might serve as more of a distraction than a help.

 

 Willshapers like to explore. That, along with Transportation, makes them another Radiant Worldhopper possibility. 

Brandon also probably has to keep some information from us for Jasnah’s flashbacks. 

[+Oltux72]

On 16/08/2020 at 1:15 AM, Ansalem said:

My first guess would be knowledge of other worlds and probably Silverlight. If any Radiant would be a Worldhopper it would be an Elsecaller. Plus she's a scientist and historian. And keeping this information secret probably wouldn't make much difference for the war effort. If anything, sharing it might serve as more of a distraction than a help.

To put it bluntly, this is treason. You have information that the whole structure of the universe is different and you hide that from your fellow Radiants and allies?

[Ansalem]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

To put it bluntly, this is treason. You have information that the whole structure of the universe is different and you hide that from your fellow Radiants and allies?

I don't see how that's treason. It wouldn't do anything to benefit the war effort and Jasnah is Queen of Alethkar. Is she committing treason against herself?

Besides it wouldn't be treason regardless. That's like saying the first person who discovered that the Earth revolves around the Sun would have been a traitor for not telling people about it. If you think that's treason then I'm glad you're not a ruler.

[Aminar]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

To put it bluntly, this is treason. You have information that the whole structure of the universe is different and you hide that from your fellow Radiants and allies?

In general... Can you imagine a known heretic coming out with, The Universe isn't what you thought? People in our history have been executed for exactly that. She'd start the Civil War Dalinar barely avoided, Listener Threat or no. 

[Kuram]

On 8/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Ansalem said:

My first guess would be knowledge of other worlds and probably Silverlight. If any Radiant would be a Worldhopper it would be an Elsecaller. Plus she's a scientist and historian. And keeping this information secret probably wouldn't make much difference for the war effort. If anything, sharing it might serve as more of a distraction than a help.

Aside from things we just can't know about yet, that makes the most sense to me. Well, it's really the only thing I can think of, to be honest.

The only thing against this is that radiants would find it harder to leave roshar because of their bond with the spren.

[Ansalem]

25 minutes ago, Kuram said:

The only thing against this is that radiants would find it harder to leave roshar because of their bond with the spren.

Well, that's true but she can have knowledge of the other worlds without going to them. What I wonder is if that's only for going to the Physical Realm in other worlds or if Roshar spren can't even visit the Cognitive Realm of other worlds. I suspect they can go anywhere in the Cognitive. If that's true then I think what Jasnah is keeping hidden is her trip to Silverlight. Going to Silverlight is arguably a bigger deal than going to any of the other Shardworlds, anyway. Silverlight is very probably the most knowledgeable place in the Cosmere.

Plus I imagine if she's been to Silverlight they may have sworn her to secrecy about it. She wouldn't want to get on the bad side of the greatest repository of knowledge in the universe.

Though to be honest I don't really think Jasnah has been to SIlverlight yet. I think what she's keeping secret is more likely something we just don't know about yet that's much more directly related to what's happening on Roshar right now. Otherwise it's weird to even mention it from a storytelling perspective. But since I can't even guess at what that might be, Silverlight is my next best guess.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ansalem

[+Oltux72]

5 hours ago, Ansalem said:

I don't see how that's treason. It wouldn't do anything to benefit the war effort and Jasnah is Queen of Alethkar. Is she committing treason against herself?

Against the rest of the Knights Radiant by presuming what they may consider important or not.

[Kuram]

4 hours ago, Ansalem said:

Well, that's true but she can have knowledge of the other worlds without going to them. What I wonder is if that's only for going to the Physical Realm in other worlds or if Roshar spren can't even visit the Cognitive Realm of other worlds. I suspect they can go anywhere in the Cognitive. If that's true then I think what Jasnah is keeping hidden is her trip to Silverlight. Going to Silverlight is arguably a bigger deal than going to any of the other Shardworlds, anyway.

No, it's limited to the Rosharan sphere of influence.  It's similar to how (secret history spoilers:)

Spoiler

Kelsier was finding it harder and harder to move forward as he was leaving Scadrial, since he was tied to preservation at the time.

There's limited evidence in text, the above being the notable one, but Brandon has expanded on it a lot more in WOBs.  He shies away from saying it's impossible, and that someone who prepared "properly" could do it, but that overwhelmingly it would be difficult for spren to leave roshar.

Though you're right that she could have knowledge of the cosmere from rosharan shadesmar civilizations, and this is more likely (if this is what's she is keeping hidden).  I'm excited for RoW to explore shadesmar cultures a bit more.

[Subvisual Haze]

Presumably the Highspren made her sign an NDA before discussing anything with her during her trip through Shadesmar.

[Karger]

That really does sound like the highspren.  I agree that Jasnah is now cosmere aware at least to an extent.  If Kholinar team had payed slightly more attention they would be too.  Can you imagine Jasnah not asking "where is the court of gods?" and making note of the answer?  She probably has some knowledge of other worlds but does not want to reveal it because A doing so would be disruptive sociologically B the 17th shard might forbid it(prime directive) and C Odium might conclude that he has to retaliate against any worlds that get involved.

[Potus]

I think it's fairly safe to say that Hoid told her more than her knowing about how humans are the voidbringers and the accurate sketches of the heralds. 

Plus spending all of WoR in Shadesmare probably opened her eyes as well. So the secrets are whatever else she knows. Brandon has hinted that she wasn't very aware at first, but when she learns she'll quickly become more cosmere knowledgeable 

[dgreene196]

On 8/17/2020 at 9:00 AM, Ansalem said:

I don't see how that's treason. It wouldn't do anything to benefit the war effort and Jasnah is Queen of Alethkar. Is she committing treason against herself?

Besides it wouldn't be treason regardless. That's like saying the first person who discovered that the Earth revolves around the Sun would have been a traitor for not telling people about it. If you think that's treason then I'm glad you're not a ruler.

I could see a minority (perhaps a significant minority) of the coalition argue that, if there are other planets to settle, why not leave Roshar to the Singers?

Of course, Dalinar, Jasnah, and friends know this Desolation isn't just about the Singers - it's about Odium. I'm not sure if they really believe they can defeat him, or even if they have a long-term strategy at this point, but it certainly seems clear that they can't abandon their home to a destructive Shard.  But some will want to do exactly that.  And that number will increase when/if the war starts to go badly for the coalition.

[Nathrangking]

The release date of doors of stone.

Seriously though, she is almost certainly knowledgeable in some level of cosmere lore. Did she meet Khriss on the other side? does she know the meaning of the number 16? Has Yolen been mentioned? hmm..

[ftl]

Can someone remind me - does Jasnah reference her secrets somewhere in the released chapters? (Or did I miss it?)

Or are we assuming she knows more because she took an extra trip through Shadesmar? (Probably true, I wouldn't argue)

[Nathrangking]

7 hours ago, ftl said:

Can someone remind me - does Jasnah reference her secrets somewhere in the released chapters? (Or did I miss it?)

Or are we assuming she knows more because she took an extra trip through Shadesmar? (Probably true, I wouldn't argue)

Navani comments that Jasnah has journals from her shadesmar trip that she has not allowed them to see.

[Pathfinder]

Jasnah has kept information to herself before out of respect to Ivory and spren in general despite wanting to tell her family. I am with Subvisual Haze on this one. I think Jasnah had to make agreements for certain information or aid, and a part of that agreement is certain subjects or topics will not become public knowledge. For all we know she spoke with the Sleepless, who feel their reasons for hiding the island are good enough to kill to preserve those secrets. So it may not be hers to decide whether or not such information is released. 

[+Oltux72]

On 03/09/2020 at 4:27 PM, Pathfinder said:

Jasnah has kept information to herself before out of respect to Ivory and spren in general despite wanting to tell her family. I am with Subvisual Haze on this one. I think Jasnah had to make agreements for certain information or aid, and a part of that agreement is certain subjects or topics will not become public knowledge. For all we know she spoke with the Sleepless, who feel their reasons for hiding the island are good enough to kill to preserve those secrets. So it may not be hers to decide whether or not such information is released. 

Well, a bit like this.

Navani to the kings: Please decree that everybody share their secrets concerning fabrials.
Azish delegate: We already shared our research into aluminium. What do you give up?
Thaylenah delegate: What does your secretive daughter-in-law hide? It is inacceptble that the Alethi and only the Alethi can keep their secrets.
Navani: Her journeys are not relevant to our common defence.
Azish: How do you know? Have you read them?

This is not going to work. Human beings generally react negatively if you tell them that you know better than themselves what's good for them and what they need to know.

[Innovation]

12 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, a bit like this.

Navani to the kings: Please decree that everybody share their secrets concerning fabrials.
Azish delegate: We already shared our research into aluminium. What do you give up?
Thaylenah delegate: What does your secretive daughter-in-law hide? It is inacceptble that the Alethi and only the Alethi can keep their secrets.
Navani: Her journeys are not relevant to our common defence.
Azish: How do you know? Have you read them?

This is not going to work. Human beings generally react negatively if you tell them that you know better than themselves what's good for them and what they need to know.

Does anyone outside the Kholin family even know that Jasnah has secret notebooks? 

[Pathfinder]

25 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, a bit like this.

Navani to the kings: Please decree that everybody share their secrets concerning fabrials.
Azish delegate: We already shared our research into aluminium. What do you give up?
Thaylenah delegate: What does your secretive daughter-in-law hide? It is inacceptble that the Alethi and only the Alethi can keep their secrets.
Navani: Her journeys are not relevant to our common defence.
Azish: How do you know? Have you read them?

This is not going to work. Human beings generally react negatively if you tell them that you know better than themselves what's good for them and what they need to know.

Im confused why you bring up what literally already happened and was handled? Oathbringer page 901. Its a bit lengthy but if you would like me to post it in its entirety for reference I would be happy to.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Im confused why you bring up what literally already happened and was handled? Oathbringer page 901. Its a bit lengthy but if you would like me to post it in its entirety for reference I would be happy to.

Because they have not solved it. They have found a mode of cooperation. Yet that is not the level of cooperation that will beat Odium.

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Because they have not solved it. They have found a mode of cooperation. Yet that is not the level of cooperation that will beat Odium.

How do you know that?  Also methods of sharing information tend to get more sophisticated as they are used and gradually improved assuming you have committed people running them and can avoid ossification.  Given the stakes I am assuming that is true.  Also Jasnah's journey happened as a private citizen.  They were not a sanctioned mission by the Alethi government.  The Alethi are not hiding anything.  Jasnah is but that is her own business. 

[+Oltux72]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

How do you know that?

Navani herself tells the assembled kings that information sharing about fabrial science is insufficient.

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Also methods of sharing information tend to get more sophisticated as they are used and gradually improved assuming you have committed people running them and can avoid ossification.  Given the stakes I am assuming that is true.  Also Jasnah's journey happened as a private citizen.  They were not a sanctioned mission by the Alethi government.  The Alethi are not hiding anything.  Jasnah is but that is her own business. 

By that logic the people knowing about the diagramm and not reporting them are doing nothing wrong.