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What do we know or speculate about the resonances of different orders of Knight Radiante or twinborns?


Shardsplinter

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Hi! I'm new to the Shard and asking this question because I find resonance One of the most fascinating investiture related Phenomena in the Cosmere.

I feel like we're still know very little about how resonance works wether it's on the Knight Radiants from Roshar, the twinborns from Scadrial or other mix of investiture that exist on the Cosmere, so I ask you to share what you have deduced regarting this subject from reading the books, from Words of Brandon or feel free to speculate about it.

So far I think that the Windrunners resonance allows them to have more squires than any other order and that Shallan's memories somehow relate to lightweaver resonance, but this strickes me as sort of random and I see no conection between this powers and the combination of surges that generated them. Maybe there isn't but Brandon usually puts so much sought to this kind oficina things that I wonder if there isn't more to it. What do you think?

Also I'm not very clear if Waxillium's steel bubble is exclusive to him as a crasher or if other coinshots could do it. I think when it comes to twinborns we kwow even less about there resonances. Would love to hear your opinions on the matter.

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Wax's Savanthood might potentially be retconned

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Argent

Have we seen the resonances of either Wax or Wayne?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, well, Wax is really good at sculpting bullets and things away from him.

Argent

The bubble.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah and things like this. This is playing with the fact that he is-- Let's just say that the abilities make this happen, and I’ll let you theorize on why, but it's just an enhancement to what he can do.

Argent

I might be wrong, but I thought you said it was because he was becoming a steel savant.

Brandon Sanderson

A savant, yeah, definitely, but this is what this is coming from.

Argent

But being a savant has to do with being really good with one power--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--and resonances--

Brandon Sanderson

Being a savant has to do with using Investiture a lot, and it's starting to permeate your soul. Like we've ta--

Argent

So he's more a savant with both of--

Brandon Sanderson

He's used them a lot, and they are changing his soul, and so the powers are morphing and changing. Just in slight, little ways. You're not gonna see a whole bunch. But you can imagine these two separate powers are kind of becoming one to him.

Argent

Yeah I can see that. And Wayne?

Brandon Sanderson

So Wayne's is not as obvious. I'll go ahead and RAFO that right now.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

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Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.
Miscellaneous 2016 (Dec. 15, 2016)

but the Resonance bit hasn't, as far as I can find. This would make it the only Twinborn Resonance we've seen.

As for the Knights Radiant, Windrunners seem to have people gravitate towards them and stick together as a group. It's thematically very appropriate that they have a far larger number of and more powerful Squires.

Shallan's memory is her Resonance, as confirmed by Brandon multiple times, illuminating people to what they could be and inspiring people to transform into a better version of themselves can also be counted as one. The Lightweavers' ability to provide "spiritual sustenance" to people/give them a reason to live for rather than just survive is a part of the Connection that they seem to form to people as a part of the Lightweaving process, so I don't think that's a Resonance. The clairvoyance bit might also be Connection, not a Resonance. I've attached some WoBs below regarding the above-mentioned topics, in order Resonance, Connection and clairvoyance.

Dalinar's stone healing in Thaylen City might be Spiritual Tension+Adhesion, as well as the ability to keep the Vision from breaking up around him under Odium's onslaught when he talked with Venli. The glowing framework ability I'm not very sure about  

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Ch 109 Neshua Kadal

His other ground against the rock wall, hand scraping the stone. Something flashed around his arm. Lines of light, a framework that covered his body. His fingers didn’t bleed as they scraped the stone.

but I think that's Tension

 

relevant WoBs:

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ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Since Shallan has a unique ability of memory from her blended surges, is fighting what Kaladin has?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. His unique ability is "strength of squires".

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

And Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

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Darkness (paraphrased)

Is there any Spiritual or Cognitive effect on the subject of Shallan's memory collecting?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well… …

Darkness (paraphrased)

Simply from taking the memory, not from the consequences of seeing the pictures or anything.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Right… no, I would say no, but there is a sliiiiight Spiritual Connection happening. So, so… but it doesn't really have an effect on the person.  I mean, you could say, you could make the argument that any slight Connection like that does have one. But I don't want you to read that much into it. So the answer is yes, with an asterisk of no.

Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 16, 2017)

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ccstat

In Words of Radiance, Shallan draws a picture of someone destroying a statue. If attentive, could that person have been aware of being "observed" at the time?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. I need more detail of what you're trying to get at here.

NeedsAdjustment

I think he's asking if Shalash(???) could have (or did) felt Shallan observing her.

Brandon Sanderson

Looking at it again, I realize I'm asking for more clarity than they'd be able to provide. I do understand the question, but at the same time, my answers can can confirm or deny things that are (sometimes false) assumptions underpinning questions. So when we get into something like this, that has to do with mechanics I haven't explained very well yet, I get very hesitant about answering.

So...I'll probably just RAFO this one. For now. Though look for a scene involving Syl where something similar happens, as they are related.

ccstat

I was being more vague than necessary, specifically to avoid a "you're making assumptions" RAFO. I'll go ahead and detail my thinking then and let you respond as much or as little as you like. I recognize that I'm poking at mechanisms we don't understand yet, so RAFO is pretty likely.

I am working under the belief that Shallan's depiction of Ash is accurate and (likely) immediate. She could have visualized the scene in several ways: by having some portion of her aspect or of Pattern's travel there, by some connection-at-a-distance mechanism, or by "word-of-mouth" relay via (e.g.) spren.

As we've seen elsewhere, savvy and/or powerful people (like I assume the heralds to be) are able to notice when an aspect of someone pops up looking at them. Similarly, they could possibly notice a remote observer through the connection. In both cases, I presume that the degree to which the observer is present determines how noticable the event is. In contrast, the passive reporting through intermediaries in the third option would probably not trigger the sense of being watched. So my question boils down to whether Shallan is projecting part of herself, part of Pattern, or doing something else entirely. And in the back of my mind I'm wondering how much manipulation (or aggression) could take place at the other end of the connection.

If I understand correctly which scene you are referring to, where Kal was noticed, then you are saying that the two events share a mechanism which answers the original question, but still leaves me wondering about what is being projected across Roshar. (That you reference Syl is interesting.)

Here is a follow-up question, hoping that I haven't already talked myself into a corner or out of an answer: The clairvoyant drawings occur at a particularly verdant lait, with plenty of growth/death/circle-of-life happening. In a mechanistic sense, did this location help enable the clairvoyance?

Brandon Sanderson

I'll have to RAFO this, as I don't want to get into the mechanics right now.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 8, 2016)

 

Edited by Honorless
cut extract to only include relevant bit
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We know they will form between different abilities, but the more abilities you have the less likely you are to develop a resonance.  This is why twinborn get resonances but fully Mistborn/Feruchemists do not.  Similar with Surges, if you manage to get a bunch of them (by swallowing the wrong gem, for example) you would not get Surges the way Orders do.

We know that Winderunners get more squires, which is theorized to be a sort of Spiritual expression of Gravitation and Adhesion, they attract and form Bonds with people better/more.

We have it confirmed that Lightweavers have three (the most Resonances Im aware of): Solid Illusions as a straightforward combo of Soulcasting and Lightweaving, their supernatural Memory abilities, and their supernatural mood-affecting abilities.

The only Resonance we know about is the Steel Bubble that Wax uses in Era2.  It was originally said to be a Resonance due to him developing Savantism, but the explanation behind that has evolved and been (or rather might be) retconned.  Brandon said the original idea of Savantism was to always have a downside to it, and he felt he was falling in the trap of using it just to introduce new abilties.  At this point I dont think we know for sure if the Steel Bubble is still Savantism, a Resonance, skill-based, or some combination of all three. 

 

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I thought Wax's resonance was confirmed to be his aim, not the steel bubble. Like the steel bubble is an impressive feat, but it's also theoretically doable for any coinshot. 

I believe some attempts at getting Brandon to tell us what Miles' resonance is have gotten him to tell us that a Twinborn would need to use both abilities near-constantly in order really notice anything, and that Miles leaned too heavily on the Feruchemy side to get anywhere. 

In general, the Ars Arcanum tells us that Twinborn resonances are gonna be subtle enough that there's no proof they're actually supernatural, while Radiant resonances are 'dramatic'.

Edited by Gilphon
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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

We have it confirmed that Lightweavers have three (the most Resonances Im aware of): Solid Illusions as a straightforward combo of Soulcasting and Lightweaving, their supernatural Memory abilities, and their supernatural mood-affecting abilities.

Actually, I dont think any of those are confirmed. The Memories have been heavily implied to be a resonance. The mood-affecting ability was said to be a magical effect, but it wasn't in the context of resonances. It could easily just be a Lightweaver effect, without being a combination of the surges. The solid illusions thing doesn't have any hard confirmation, and it wouldnt be a resonance anyway. It would just be using two powers in tandem, not an additional "quirk" that goes along with having just those two powers.

 

Windrunners having lots of squires is the only confirmed resonance as far as I can find. Memories have been talked about a lot in the context of resonances, and steel-bubbles have some uncertainty about them in the WoBs we have about it.

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18 hours ago, Honorless said:

This would make it the only Twinborn Resonance we've seen.

For the only named Twinborn...

21 hours ago, Quantus said:

The only Resonance we know about is the Steel Bubble that Wax uses in Era2.  It was originally said to be a Resonance due to him developing Savantism, but the explanation behind that has evolved and been (or rather might be) retconned.  Brandon said the original idea of Savantism was to always have a downside to it, and he felt he was falling in the trap of using it just to introduce new abilties.  At this point I dont think we know for sure if the Steel Bubble is still Savantism, a Resonance, skill-based, or some combination of all three. 

So I'm chalking up Wax being able to selectively remove things from his bubble as his savantism / being an accomplished Coinshot. I think that the bubble is his resonance

Going back to an old thread, it points out that someone else (the coinshot + pewter? person on the train in BoM) uses a bubble, and they probably weren't a Crasher:

Quote

The brute came in again, and Wax dodged to the side, barely, and managed to connect with the man's face. Once, twice, three quick jabs.

The brute smiled. Doors still rattled around him - he was a Coinshot, obviously, Pushing out with a bubble like the one Wax used. It even pressed a little on the metalminds Wax wore on his upper arms, which were resistant to Allomancy.

This man could have ended the fight at any moment by grabbing a bit of metal and shooting it. He preferred the hand-to-hand fight. Indeed, the man raised his fists and nodded to Wax, still grinning, inviting him to come in for another round.

 

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On 14/08/2020 at 5:58 PM, Quantus said:

We know they will form between different abilities, but the more abilities you have the less likely you are to develop a resonance.

That raises a question. If a KR visited the Nightwatcher, would adding a boon and a course make his or her resonance go away due to too many abilities?

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6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That raises a question. If a KR visited the Nightwatcher, would adding a boon and a course make his or her resonance go away due to too many abilities?

I think I remember a WoB where he explained that if a twinborn were to hold the bands of mourning he wouldn't loose his previous resonance( I don't know if that's because the bands are technichally a temporal ability or because resonance can't be loss) I actually remember that WoB said that a new resonance could actually be created between the bands and the users original abilities.

So if I had to Guess I would say that a Knight Radiants with a Boon/curse wouldn't loose his/her resonance but I would also find it very strange if a new resonance between the surges and the Boon were to ocurr.

This of course raises a very interesting question on the subject of Lyft because her boon/curse granted by Cultivation has been stated to make her almost an impossible. I, for one, have always thought that there was more to it than a regular Boon/curse and she clearly uses it a Lot; so could we be seeing some sort of interaction between her surges and the abilities granted to her by Cultivation, maybe Even a resonance.

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1 hour ago, Shardsplinter said:

This of course raises a very interesting question on the subject of Lyft because her boon/curse granted by Cultivation has been stated to make her almost an impossible. I, for one, have always thought that there was more to it than a regular Boon/curse and she clearly uses it a Lot; so could we be seeing some sort of interaction between her surges and the abilities granted to her by Cultivation, maybe Even a resonance.

Quote

PrinceDusty

At the Pixel Project event, you talked about a further extent of Cultivation's magic than just the boon and bane? Are there any people alive at the end of Oathbringer who are influenced by that magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Lift. Well, I guess that's a boon, isn't it? Yes, there are. But nobody on screen that has Cultivation magic, other than boons or curses from the Nightwatcher. Yes, there is such a thing, no, there's no one else on screen. But what Lift does is a hint.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

You might find this interesting

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50 minutes ago, Honorless said:

You might find this interesting

So if Lift in fact is influenced by some form of Cultivation magic other than just a Boon/curse; could there be some sort of resonance between her surges and this, and if there could do you think we've been dropped any hint of that. 

PS: the more I think bout it, the more I love Cosmere.

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