Speculating on Era 3

[Halyo_Alex]

I've been thinking a fair bit about what Era 3 could possibly reveal about the Metallic Arts. When I first read Era 2 and Era 1 (yes, you read that right, I was dumb), the metallic arts seemed pretty feature-complete... But now that I've gotten more knowledgeable about how Invested Arts tend to work, and stuff like what the underlying mechanics of Ettmetal and Medallions might be, I'm starting to wonder; what could Era 3 possibly add to this?

My preferred potential candidate is, of course, Reverse Compounding, wherein a twinborn of the same metal can store allomantic power in their metalminds, to be extracted at a potentially greater (or more precise) rate than just sheer allomantic burn rate can manage (easily, without Duralumin, for example). Imagine if a Steel compounder not only had incredible amounts of speed to tap, but could also precisely and powerfully Push on metals, possibly even some (probably lightly) filled Metalminds to catch his opponents off guard. Granted, that may not seem as useful as "UNLIMITED POWERRRR" I mean physical speed.

Another possibility is the reveal of power-sharing medallions. In theory, if F-Nicrosil works as I believe it does (at this point in time), then a Medallion granting F-Nicrosil and F-Aluminum would allow the user to store any other metalborn powers they have access to inside unkeyed nicrosil to be tapped by another nicrosil ferring. Oh wait, you've got a medallion that grants F-nicrosil right there, just let the recipient keep it while the freshly made unkeyed nicrosil has a charge! Now anyone can basically rent the power of a Coinshot, or a soother, or... a misting can have Duralumin allomancy... for a day. Maybe more, if they keep their rental going. Or someone could rent the paired metal of their power (the allomantic counterpart of their natural feruchemical metal, or vice-versa) and become a temporary Compounder. Let them keep that F-Nicrosil/F-Aluminum medallion and an Augur with a Bloodmaker's unkeyed nicrosil could create scores upon scores of unkeyed gold for injured or sick people to tap using a Gold feruchemy medallion (or an F-nicrosil medallion and unkeyed nicrosil with F-Gold inside).

Another addition to Reverse Compounding could be Unkeyed Allomantic Metalminds, unkeyed, say, Steelminds filled with Steel allomancy. If you give that to someone with steel feruchemy (either by birth or by unkeyed nicrosil or whatever else), then they can be a "Feruchemical Coinshot" too. Just as a Steel misting could burn an unkeyed Steelmind filled with physical speed to become an "Allomantic Steelrunner".

And I haven't even touched on Hemalurgy (because let's face it, Hemalurgy should not be touched upon).

What sort of other reveals might Era 3 make for the Metallic Arts' synergistic behaviors or previously assumed rules?

[Raphaborn]

Hemalurgical Constructs ("Koloss" version of other metals, mainly Copper, Zinc and Tin).
Atium alloys.
Ettmetal alloys.
New Kandras Blessings.
"Chipwares" version coppermind.
Sapient metalminds.
Advanced spiritual physics, with studies on Fortune, Investiture, Identity and Connection.
Hemalurgy without deaths.
Feruchemically Shardblades.
Artificial perpendicularities.
Keyed and Unsealed Medallions. To allow someone to buy one and be the only one with access.
A way to store the Mists.
Aluminum canteens for storing liquid Ettmetal.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Raphaborn

[+Bzhydack]

I wanna see Artificial Intelligence able to use Metalic Arts. Computers with Feruchemical and Allomantic powers. Mixed mechanical and Invested technology.

[Winter]

I think we will start to see modern problems solved with/exacerbated by Allomancy and Feruchemy. Healthcare could be an interesting one, the rich could hire gold compounders to create medallions for them so they never get sick while the poor struggle with affording to go to the doctor. On the other hand you could have high speed rail and air travel with the flying machine technology from BoM

[Weltall]

From the various things Brandon has said, we're going to be looking at the early days of computing on Scadrial so I expect there's going to be a lot of integration of the Metallic Arts into technology a la what the southerners are doing. I suspect that we might even get hints in the direction of how a Cosmere AI would work, especially if there have been (or are onscreen) breakthroughs in understanding the more esoteric bits of realmatics that they're only just starting to poke at. I don't think we're likely to see a true AI yet (Era 4 now...) but some hints at least, maybe the protagonist sketching out ideas that future generations can later put into practice.

3 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

"Chipwares" version coppermind.

Brandon has floated a 'Mistborn Cyberpunk' work set between Eras 3 and 4 as a possible project so my guess is that technology like this would either go there or in the latter era, but we might see the early prototypes that they'll develop from. I mean, we know unsealed copperminds can be made now, but the kind of really sophisticated and tiny cybernetic modules seen in sci-fi that can be used to learn skills, enhance reflexes etc. are probably farther in the future than Era 3 will take us.

Quote

Advanced spiritual physics, with studies on Fortune, Investiture, Identity and Connection.

Yeah, I'm really hoping we get to see F-Chromium in Era 3 because I want to know what storing and tapping Fortune will look like beyond the generalized assumption made in Era 2 that it manipulates 'luck'.

[Halyo_Alex]

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

I wanna see Artificial Intelligence able to use Metalic Arts. Computers with Feruchemical and Allomantic powers. Mixed mechanical and Invested technology.

Brandon has said that a true artificial general intelligence would actually coalesce ambient investiture into some sort of Spiritweb. Machines will be people too, in a sense. ...Meaning you can spike a computer's memory and intelligence out and into a human with H-Copper.

4 hours ago, Winter said:

I think we will start to see modern problems solved with/exacerbated by Allomancy and Feruchemy. Healthcare could be an interesting one, the rich could hire gold compounders to create medallions for them so they never get sick while the poor struggle with affording to go to the doctor. On the other hand you could have high speed rail and air travel with the flying machine technology from BoM

Oh I absolutely think that there will be some sort of class divergence (or whatever the technical term is) in Era 3. If I'm right about the F-Nicrosil/F-Aluminum medallions allowing unkeyed nicrosil to contain a charge of any metalborn power, then all you need to do is stick 32 layers of nicrosilminds with 32 layers of the allomantic/feruchemical metals (one for storing the feruchemical attribute and one for the allomantic one as per my Reverse Compounding theory) and then just one F-Nicrosil medallion and... Hey wait that just sounds like the Bands of Mourning! Oh. Oh dear.

So yeah mass replicas of the Bands might become a thing, which would be TERRIFYING. Multiple people with access to all 32 powers simultaneously (for a time, but if they're that rich, they can presumably afford to get them recharged...).

[Hoidolasium]

On 8/14/2020 at 0:30 AM, Halyo_Alex said:

Meaning you can spike a computer's memory and intelligence out and into a human with H-Copper.

Sounds like something the Set would do if they're still around.

*Edit* In era 4, I mean.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Hoidolasium

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

It does seem very likely that allomancy and feruchemy become rent-a-power as people are mentioning here, and I think it's very interesting that thematically the powers keep ending up in the hands of the elite one way or another.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

It does seem very likely that allomancy and feruchemy become rent-a-power as people are mentioning here, and I think it's very interesting that thematically the powers keep ending up in the hands of the elite one way or another.

Now here is a question, do the powers end up in the hands of the elite, or does being elite end up in the hands of those with the powers?

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

Just now, Frustration said:

Now here is a question, do the powers end up in the hands of the elite, or does being elite end up in the hands of those with the powers?

Really depends on your perspective. To me, it seems much more that the powers are in the hands of elite. Rashek gifted allomancy to the nobles who supported him, and it stayed in Noble lines. In era 3, presumably, people will be able to buy powers. Era two is the most deviant but even then the new noble lines seem to be the strongest- there's a reason that [ERA 2 Spoilers] most of the woman captured by the set for what we think is mistborn breeding potential are nobles; they're all descended from spook. There's definitely some level of "those with power become the elite" though, don't get me wrong.

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Really depends on your perspective. To me, it seems much more that the powers are in the hands of elite. Rashek gifted allomancy to the nobles who supported him, and it stayed in Noble lines. In era 3, presumably, people will be able to buy powers. Era two is the most deviant but even then the new noble lines seem to be the strongest- there's a reason that [ERA 2 Spoilers] most of the woman captured by the set for what we think is mistborn breeding potential are nobles; they're all descended from spook. There's definitely some level of "those with power become the elite" though, don't get me wrong.

It's a bit reminiscent of [Stormlight Archives]

Spoiler

How the Recreance caused normal people to gain Shards so they had the power to become the rulers and induce the whole light/darkeyes caste system and the safehand stuff so women "couldn't wield shardblades" and stuff.

 

[+Oltux72]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

Now here is a question, do the powers end up in the hands of the elite, or does being elite end up in the hands of those with the powers?

There are multiple kinds of elite. In this case power shifts from the genetic elite to the elite with money.

[HSuperLee]

But then you'll still have those naturally born with the power, thus circumventing the need to pay for it, and thus they might be seen as even more elite. After all, an bloodmaker would only need to buy the power to burn gold while others would need to buy both allomancy and feruchemy. Plus, if they have "safe" hemalurgy (which I'm personally against, but I understand its probably at some level inevitable because it's too tempting of a hack) a bloodmaker could sell their services. Essentially, you could have a bloodmaker born with nothing raise themself to prosperity by the time they're a teenager. Yes, F-gold is the most obviously useful, but even duralumin gnats would have their powers being sought out to make more medallions. The only power that seems like it wouldn't lead to wealth is A-aluminum, and that's only because we haven't yet found a use for it. 

[Raphaborn]

35 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

But then you'll still have those naturally born with the power, thus circumventing the need to pay for it, and thus they might be seen as even more elite. After all, an bloodmaker would only need to buy the power to burn gold while others would need to buy both allomancy and feruchemy. Plus, if they have "safe" hemalurgy (which I'm personally against, but I understand its probably at some level inevitable because it's too tempting of a hack) a bloodmaker could sell their services. Essentially, you could have a bloodmaker born with nothing raise themself to prosperity by the time they're a teenager. Yes, F-gold is the most obviously useful, but even duralumin gnats would have their powers being sought out to make more medallions. The only power that seems like it wouldn't lead to wealth is A-aluminum, and that's only because we haven't yet found a use for it. 

A-Aluminum will have useful use. Compouding.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

2 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

A-Aluminum will have useful use. Compouding.

Even then though, we'd have to find a use for having lots and lots of Identity. I'm sure there is one, just like I'm sure there's a use for normal A-Aluminum, but we and the Scadrians would need to find it first.

[+Bzhydack]

3 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

But then you'll still have those naturally born with the power, thus circumventing the need to pay for it, and thus they might be seen as even more elite. After all, an bloodmaker would only need to buy the power to burn gold while others would need to buy both allomancy and feruchemy. Plus, if they have "safe" hemalurgy (which I'm personally against, but I understand its probably at some level inevitable because it's too tempting of a hack) a bloodmaker could sell their services. Essentially, you could have a bloodmaker born with nothing raise themself to prosperity by the time they're a teenager. Yes, F-gold is the most obviously useful, but even duralumin gnats would have their powers being sought out to make more medallions. The only power that seems like it wouldn't lead to wealth is A-aluminum, and that's only because we haven't yet found a use for it. 

A-Aluminum can be useful during trips to places when raw kinetic Investiture can be used against someone. It can remove Investiture from body - this mean reverting Shade touches or protection against Surges or agressive Aons. Im curious if burning Aluminum can prevent from stealing power with Hemalurgic spike (of course, spiked person will be dead anyway, but Hemalirgist will gain nothing)

Im also courious how Genetics will develop on Scadrial. Would be possible to create artificialy Metalborns? Use in-vitro technology and breed genetically engineered allomancers and feruchemisits?

Probably this is question more for Era 4 than 3, but stil....

[Raphaborn]

41 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

A-Aluminum can be useful during trips to places when raw kinetic Investiture can be used against someone. It can remove Investiture from body - this mean reverting Shade touches or protection against Surges or agressive Aons. Im curious if burning Aluminum can prevent from stealing power with Hemalurgic spike (of course, spiked person will be dead anyway, but Hemalirgist will gain nothing)

Im also courious how Genetics will develop on Scadrial. Would be possible to create artificialy Metalborns? Use in-vitro technology and breed genetically engineered allomancers and feruchemisits?

Probably this is question more for Era 4 than 3, but stil....

Investiture Manifestations involve spiritual, not physical, genetics. So I doubt that physical means can be used for this. But I see how magical means can be used for this. Mainly with access to some other magic systems ...

[Raphaborn]

1 hour ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Even then though, we'd have to find a use for having lots and lots of Identity. I'm sure there is one, just like I'm sure there's a use for normal A-Aluminum, but we and the Scadrians would need to find it first.

Well, as Storing Identity "makes you susceptible to all kinds of things in the Cosmere" the extrapolation is that, at the very least, it would make you less susceptible to those same things. That would be very useful already.

[Frustration]

12 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

A-Aluminum will have useful use. Compouding.

You can't compound aluminum.

[+Oltux72]

12 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Even then though, we'd have to find a use for having lots and lots of Identity. I'm sure there is one, just like I'm sure there's a use for normal A-Aluminum, but we and the Scadrians would need to find it first.

Using somebody else's metalminds presumably.

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Using somebody else's metalminds presumably.

How would you get unkeyed Identity? By definition Identity is what keys a metalmind, so a metalmind storing Identity can never be Unkeyed. So you can never tap someone else's Identity from Aluminum anyway.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

How would you get unkeyed Identity? By definition Identity is what keys a metalmind, so a metalmind storing Identity can never be Unkeyed. So you can never tap someone else's Identity from Aluminum anyway.

Well, we have never observed feruchemical usage of aluminium. Investiture and Identity are distinct. Otherwise how could you have Investiture without Identity? Nor is the metal mind as such keyed. The Investiture within it is. So we have no idea whether Identity (or Fortune) are keyed in the first place.

[Raphaborn]

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

You can't compound aluminum.

Maybe yes maybe no. When the metal is invested with Feruchemy it uses its Feruchemical power when burned, not the Allomantic, so the most likely is Yes.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Raphaborn

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Maybe yes maybe no. When the metal is invested with Feruchemy it uses its Feruchemical power when burned, not the Allomantic, so the most likely is Yes.

No it's not. Compounding is when allomancy fuels Feruchemy, and as Aluminum Allomancy is not net positive compounding wouldn't work. Whether or not you can tapp an aluminum mind is in question.

Also

Quote

FireArcadia

Is there any use to being a copper Compounder, from a Feruchemical point of view? I think the same point would also apply to an aluminum Compounder.

 

Brandon Sanderson

Some combinations, like some abilities themselves, aren't really that useful. That said, being able to Compound copper...that could do some things. Aluminum, not so much.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1131

 

[Raphaborn]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

No it's not. Compounding is when allomancy fuels Feruchemy, and as Aluminum Allomancy is not net positive compounding wouldn't work. Whether or not you can tapp an aluminum mind is in question.

Also

 

"No so much" is not the same as doing nothing.