theory Renarin's Ilumination

[Subvisual Haze]

18 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

What confuses me, is How did Renarin know Kaladin was in trouble? 

Did he project an illusion of himself? Or did he Else-call down there. 

If the first, he has some kind of remote sight. Plausible, but doubtful. But projecting the illusion is new. 

But this sounds like he is there in person. 

How did he get there? Else-calling is not a Truthwatcher surge. He should have some kind of Illusion and Progression surges, true or voidish. 

I would guess he had a future vision telling him he needed to be there at that moment and shine his magic flashlight at Moash. 

[ZenBossanova]

I think I misread it. At first I thought Renarin stepped through some kind of gateway. But on re-reading the section, I believe you gentlemen are correct. 

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I would guess he had a future vision telling him he needed to be there at that moment and shine his magic flashlight at Moash. 

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

 

[+Ptolema]

I think you may be right about Glys' brokenness being an important factor to how Renarin's Illumination functions, even if characters (for example: Ivory) seem to think that Renarin's visions are explainable as "of Odium" (which they still could be, but Glys is still an important factor).

Taking into account this WoB, we know however Glys was corrupted would have been a "slightly different" process, and the epigraphs did seem to imply that Sja-anat normally could only corrupt "lesser spren".

I actually wonder if Glys being in some way damaged/broken is related to whatever allowed him to be corrupted in the first place, possibly leaving him vulnerable to Sja-anat in ways that normally only "lesser spren" would be.

[+Bzhydack]

2 hours ago, Ptolema said:

I actually wonder if Glys being in some way damaged/broken is related to whatever allowed him to be corrupted in the first place, possibly leaving him vulnerable to Sja-anat in ways that normally only "lesser spren" would be.

I saw somewhere here theory that Glys was deadeye - was broken by Recreance. Ad this leaves him vulnerable.

[Halyo_Alex]

13 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

I saw somewhere here theory that Glys was deadeye - was broken by Recreance. Ad this leaves him vulnerable.

...

Uh oh.

...Adolin...?

[+Ptolema]

On 8/25/2020 at 5:51 PM, robardin said:

There's also the fact that the bright white light going on at the time was described as warming. Like Dalinar's seen/felt a few times in his life, that even the Stormfather didn't see. That many readers associate with Cultivation doing some... Cultivating.

And the fact that Renarin didn't seem to notice it as something he was doing, or anything unusual. So either he has been doing this for a while now, or even more incredibly, it's something he does unconsciously? Or that only others can see, the opposite of his future visions?

Until we find out more in later chapters, I'm not sure which of those possibilities blows my mind more.

Reading this, I actually got curious as to what mentions of "warmth" were justified by in TWoK/WoR/OB (aside from the surprising amount of people standing next to fires for warmth) and I think I agree.

Couldn't find any on TWoK.

In WoR:

Chapter 46,

Quote

Rock actually sputtered, an amusing mixture of indignation and incredulity, bringing a red cast to his light Horneater skin. "Too much air! Hard for you to think. Cold? Horneater Peaks is warm! Wonderfully warm.

And we know Cultivation's Perpendicularity is in the Horneater peaks.

Chapter 89, Dalinar dreams of his childhood home and steps out the balcony:

Quote

Warm light bathed him. A deep, enveloping, piercing warmth. A warmth that soaked down deep through his skin, into his very self. He stared at that light, and was not blinded. The source was distant, but he knew it. Knew it well.

After he wakes up, he actually wonders what that was.

He questions the Stormfather, who tells him it wasn't a vision.

Quote

NO VISION WAS SENT THIS MORNING.
"Yes it was. I saw light and warmth."
A SIMPLE DREAM. NOT OF ME, NOR OF GODS.
Curious. Dalinar could have sworn it felt the same way as the visions, if not stronger.

The Stormfather calls it a simple dream, but maybe he just didn't know anything about Cultivation's actions. The fact that he doesn't have an answer when Dalinar starts getting his memories back in OB kind of backs that idea.

Into OB:

In Chapter 4, when Dalinar is talking to Kadash:

Quote

"Old friend," Dalinar said softly, "Honor might be dead, but I have felt... something else. Something beyond. A warmth and a light.[...]"

Dalinar seems to interpret it as something beyond Honor, but this early into OB he still wasn't aware of Cultivation's work either so that's a bit in the air. He mentions the warmth again in Chapter 16, basically in the same way.

In Chapter 119, while Dalinar is rejecting Odium, he feels the warmth again:

Quote

Something stirred inside of Dalinar. A warmth that he had known once before. A warm, calming light.

Then on Chapter 122, it's mentioned one last time:

Quote

As Navani shut the balcony doors, he closed his eyes and felt the warmth of a distant, unseen light.

Dalinar seems to consistently interpret it as something beyond Honor, not necessarily something else.

Funnily enough, when Dalinar asked who Cultivation was back on the flashback of Chapter 114, she tells him she's "someone beyond your authority to question".

I'll be honest, I was hoping to find something directly mentioning warmth in relation to Cultivation, but even without that, I still agree. Honor isn't around anymore, and Cultivation has clearly been doing things. The warmth is mentioned specifically as a warmth too many times for it not to be deeply important. It bothers me that I can't seem to find any direct link in the scene itself but it still makes sense, especially considering the first mention is literally on Dalinar's strange dream/flashback that the Stormfather claims was just a dream, rather late into WoR, and in OB Dalinar's memories slowly come back.

I've seen the theory that Glys was sent to Sja-anat on purpose, presumably by Cultivation, and if the warmth is related to Cultivation, that'd make perfect sense. Renarin can't make illusions, unlike other Truthwatchers (Chapter 6 of the RoW preview, on Navani's narration). We know Cultivation is superior to Honor in terms of seeing the future. If Glys is in some way related to Cultivation, that'd explain the visions.

TL;DR:

Since Glys can't remember much of his corruption, possibly either because the corruption itself left him broken or there had been some damage that facilitated the corruption in the first place, then the visions could be of Cultivation, while the strangeness of Renarin's Illumination could be attributed to Glys' brokenness. And if we're following that (likely) logic that Glys is broken in some way, then maybe he and Renarin legitimately don't notice the effects of the light.

[Djerf]

Renarins ligthweaving could be more about him than Glys, shallahan needs to paint stuff to make proper illusions and it's a good guess that other truthwatchers has do something similar.

Maybe he just don't connect spiritually to paintings and then along comes moash, a person who he knew to a degree and who has deviated from the path he should have taken together with his brothers from bridge four.