Shallan's Baby

[Karger]

I think we can safely put this one in the no pile.  We have seen them interacting off mission.  No indication this has happened.

[the_archduke]

Agreed.  Adolin would have explored the idea of Veil being intimate with someone else a long time ago if Shallan had been pregnant.  The fact that this is only just now occurring to him, or at least he is just now voicing it, is near ironclad proof to me that Shallan has not had a baby yet.

 

However, Shallan could easily find out she is pregnant in this book, and Shallan's line about her and Veil's understanding regarding physical intimacy is there to completely head off speculation that her child is not Adolins.

[Kingsdaughter613]

I think Stormlight causes abortions due to how Cosmere healing works. Women do not see their ideal selves as pregnant (except with regard to certain mental illnesses.) And I’m saying this a mom of three, who’d love to have more eventually.

 

Odds are, Stormlight is ‘healing’ her pregnancies before she can become obviously pregnant. Before she even misses a cycle. It will probably prevent menopause for as long as she views herself as fertile though...

[+Bliev]

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think Stormlight causes abortions due to how Cosmere healing works. Women do not see their ideal selves as pregnant (except with regard to certain mental illnesses.) And I’m saying this a mom of three, who’d love to have more eventually.

As a mom of two, I agree. :-) (although I do NOT want more ever haha!)

I think that Radiant pregnancies might have to include specific "intent" while attempting to conceive so as to not "heal away the parasite" so-to-speak. I'm guessing that unplanned pregnancies are unlikely.

We've seen magic interfering with fertility in Warbreaker:

Spoiler

With Brandon saying that there is something"more" that the Returned need to do to conceive a child. We have speculated on what this might be, whether it's suppressing the Divine Breath, or has something to do with Intent. But his WB annotations were pretty clear about there being another "step" of some sort. I wonder if this is due to the cognitive shadow-like essence of them, the "splinter" inside of them, or it's about the amount of breaths themselves and specific to Susebron.

It also hearkens me somewhat to the book Women's War:

Spoiler

Where a magical "revolution" of sorts made it impossible for women to get/remain pregnant unless they wanted to--so no rape, coercion, etc. would work. This threatened the entire patriarchal status quo...and also started a bloody war.

I'm intrigued by the possibilities here.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Bliev

[NameIess]

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think Stormlight causes abortions due to how Cosmere healing works. Women do not see their ideal selves as pregnant (except with regard to certain mental illnesses.) And I’m saying this a mom of three, who’d love to have more eventually.

I don't think that Stormloght would cause an abortion. Brandon said it was the safest.

Quote

Questioner

Have your ever thought about how your magic systems would affect a pregnant woman?

Brandon Sanderson

I have given thought to it.

Questioner

...Which system would you say would be safest as a pregnant woman?

Brandon Sanderson

I think Stormlight-- being Invested with Stormlight would be very safe. You would probably be better off than not. Hemalurgy would be very bad.

Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018)

 

[+Bliev]

15 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I don't think that Stormloght would cause an abortion. Brandon said it was the safest.

 

Safest once you're already pregnant and want to stay that way. This doesn't really say much about conception or early, unknown pregnancy loss/abortion (which are when most pregnancies miscarry/abort). 

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Bliev said:

Safest once you're already pregnant and want to stay that way. This doesn't really say much about conception or early, unknown pregnancy loss/abortion (which are when most pregnancies miscarry/abort). 

Okay. To go back to an earlier point, I don't believe that the Spiritual aspect is what people see as their "ideal" self. In this WoB, Brandon explains the Spiritual aspect:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson.

 This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw Investiture. The soul, you might say.

(Sorry about the weird formatting, I took this from a longer WoB about TLR.)

If the spiritual ideal was a mix of your connections to places, people and times would probably "update" as soon as you became pregnant, and would therefore not cause abortion. The cognitive aspect could interfere with the spiritual aspect, as that is what you see yourself as, but it does not dictate the healing, only interferes with it.

[+Bliev]

@Nameless yeah, I’m with you on the ideal self stuff, but early pregnancy is much like being infected with a parasite, so I could totally see a rush of “General” Stormlight healing just undoing an early pregnancy if it hadn’t been worked into their spirit web or cognitive aspect yet.

[Pathfinder]

There is also the fact that shallan mentions she goes on regular benders. If shallan was pregnant im not sure what kind of effect it would have on the potential baby, being wasted, and then the next day using stormlight to get rid of the hang over. Also consider even if with stormlight healing, i couldnt see a good mother to be getting drunk off her butt and saying "hey its fine ill just stormlight it up later"

Edited September 7, 2020 by Pathfinder

[earthexile]

I've been wondering if Shallan's unendurable shame for this story, and her next oath, might involve her birth-controlling herself and forgetting it. It seems like she could Soulcast a pregnancy away with a stray effort. Turn it into blood and decide that everything's normal. She'd probably have a really hard time squaring that with Life Before Death and Vorinism and such. But she's been telling herself, she won't create any more people...

[+Bliev]

8 hours ago, earthexile said:

I've been wondering if Shallan's unendurable shame for this story, and her next oath, might involve her birth-controlling herself and forgetting it. It seems like she could Soulcast a pregnancy away with a stray effort. Turn it into blood and decide that everything's normal. She'd probably have a really hard time squaring that with Life Before Death and Vorinism and such. But she's been telling herself, she won't create any more people...

THIS PUN IS EVERYTHING.

Formless = Shadolin embryo in utero confirmed! (jk jk) 

[wildcard09]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:08 AM, the_archduke said:

Agreed.  Adolin would have explored the idea of Veil being intimate with someone else a long time ago if Shallan had been pregnant.  The fact that this is only just now occurring to him, or at least he is just now voicing it, is near ironclad proof to me that Shallan has not had a baby yet.

 

However, Shallan could easily find out she is pregnant in this book, and Shallan's line about her and Veil's understanding regarding physical intimacy is there to completely head off speculation that her child is not Adolins.

This is exactly the kind of soap opera drama I want more of, can you imagine if Veil has a affair, Shallan and gets pregnant? 

You think there's DNA testing fabrials on Roshar?

[Dreamwa1ker]

On 8/25/2020 at 10:55 AM, the_archduke said:

And beside all of this rational discussion, I really want to see their three-colored hair kid.

Yu-Gi-Oh! 

[Robot]

All I want to say is that everyone in this thread is a storming genius and I'm proud of you all.

[Ailvara]

I bet even when Stormlight Archive is all finished there will still remain people speculating if back between OB and RoW, during a memory lapse, Shallan didn't hide her unborn baby in a special incubator fabrial and write fanfiction about the kid's wild adventures worldhopping around Cosmere. Eventually, he'll inherit lightweaving skills after his mum, go back in time and dye his hair white so that nobody can recognize him by the black-blonde-ginger mix.

[Singer]

I suspect there is some form of birth control available on Roshar. Just for the sake of the story and not having to worry about a bunch of unplanned pregnancies with all your hetero couples, it makes sense to invent some herb or something that works pretty well. IRL, most couples trying to conceive will get that pregnancy within a year, but not necessarily within a month or 3. Unless there is some magic contraceptive on Roshar, the odds are in favor of Shallan becoming pregnant or already being pregnant.

[Pathfinder]

8 hours ago, Singer said:

I suspect there is some form of birth control available on Roshar. Just for the sake of the story and not having to worry about a bunch of unplanned pregnancies with all your hetero couples, it makes sense to invent some herb or something that works pretty well. IRL, most couples trying to conceive will get that pregnancy within a year, but not necessarily within a month or 3. Unless there is some magic contraceptive on Roshar, the odds are in favor of Shallan becoming pregnant or already being pregnant.

Or maybe shallan and or adolin just can't have kids. Either one of them could have a condition or could have had something have happened to them that means they cannot get pregnant at all. And since stormlight brings you back to your last "status", if the damage took place for shallan when she was young, no amount of stormlight could change that. Or if it was adolin, it wouldnt matter how healthy or fertile shallan was with or without stormlight. 

[the_archduke]

They have only been married a year.  I wouldn't start worrying about infertility problems just yet.  

[Pathfinder]

26 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

They have only been married a year.  I wouldn't start worrying about infertility problems just yet.  

What does a marriage's duration have to do with whether or not someone could be infertile?

[the_archduke]

That we have no evidence that they are infertile and one year of no baby is not strong evidence that they cannot have children.  Hence, I wouldn't worry about them having infertility problems just yet.

[Pathfinder]

31 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

That we have no evidence that they are infertile and one year of no baby is not strong evidence that they cannot have children.  Hence, I wouldn't worry about them having infertility problems just yet.

I wasn't saying there was evidence. Just like there is absolutely no evidence that there is a baby or there has to be one. I just threw out a possibility like everyone else. And I am not worried whether they are infertile or not. Just it could be. There may never be a child and that is just as likely as any other possibility posted on this thread. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 8/12/2020 at 9:22 PM, StormlightFan23 said:

Alright, my first topic I started and not beating around the bush here with the title!  I am really surprised that no one has brought up that Shallan and Adolin likely have a baby!  I feel like after the last book, that was seen as basically inevitable (recently married, young couple, as in love as the two of them are!  You can guess what happens )  But, I actually think that there IS a baby, and it's one of the "time skip" reveals that Mr. Sanderson is holding back for later in the book... I think this is the main reason that we haven't seen Adolin "on screen", because I think if they were together then they would definitely discuss the baby, and it would spoil the surprise for readers.

I also have a theory that the reason Pattern is NOWHERE to be seen (which I normally would see as a big warning sign) is because he actually plays a nanny role for the baby.  (Kind of a fun twist on how he was the chaperone in Shallan and Adolin's courtship, which was one of the cutest parts on the last book )  I know Shallan mentions that Pattern is "watching to warn Adolin", but Adolin is basically right there in the last few chapters, so why isn't Pattern with Shallan??  It makes no sense unless he has to be off doing something more important... hence nanny role!

I do think Shallan has a lot of growing to do (Mr. Sanderson said she is in a "downward spiral"), and I think having Adolin as a husband and also her baby will be two elements that really help pull her out of that spiral.  And Pattern will be the cutest nanny.  I'm hoping we get a Pattern interlude like we're getting for Syl which is him "bonding" with the baby...  I'm looking forward to reading all of this so much!  November can't come soon enough!

I think Stormlight is ‘healing’ any pregnancy before it can develop.

[DeployParachute]

9 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think Stormlight is ‘healing’ any pregnancy before it can develop.

Rather than get into the very fraught, and murky implications of how an embryo or fetus is treated in the cosmere (ie having their own spirit web and presence in all three realms OR not) and how that dictates how Stormlight can affect it, I think a much more simpler, and less conflict prone explanation is that Adolin's...ahem..."troops" are being cleansed from the body before they can accomplish anything. Sounds more an answer Brandon would be likely to give at any rate, imo.

[Kingsdaughter613]

5 hours ago, DeployParachute said:

Rather than get into the very fraught, and murky implications of how an embryo or fetus is treated in the cosmere (ie having their own spirit web and presence in all three realms OR not) and how that dictates how Stormlight can affect it, I think a much more simpler, and less conflict prone explanation is that Adolin's...ahem..."troops" are being cleansed from the body before they can accomplish anything. Sounds more an answer Brandon would be likely to give at any rate, imo.

This wouldn’t even be an embryo. Think of it like an IUD, preventing the potential pregnancy from implanting. Also, baby wouldn’t get a cognitive self until it can think, which doesn’t happen until brain development begins. Personally, I think avoiding Cosmere healing until late pregnancy would be wise.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Also, baby wouldn’t get a cognitive self until it can think, which doesn’t happen until brain development begins. Personally, I think avoiding Cosmere healing until late pregnancy would be wise.

Considering objects and plants have cognitive aspects I think you are fine.