GudThymes Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 I was thinking about why we haven't seen a Shardblade (dead) in the hands of a Fused yet. Given that they are essentially Odiumspren would they have the same reaction towards Shardblades as Radiants do? Just skull crushing screaming inside of them? I recall Syl once being upset that she can't attract her own spren, maybe the Fused are unable to bond shardblades because they're essentially spren? What are your thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Harrycrapper Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Hmmm. I recall they handled Moash and Graves' Shards but can't recall to what extent. They couldn't use lashings on any of it obviously and I recall them bundling it all up somehow. I've been wondering when we'll see some Shardbearers on the Singer side, they've got at least 3 sets of Plate and possibly 3 Blades(I can't recall if they got Eshonai's Blade or not). They've likely taken more since then. If anything, they'll have loyal humans/non Fused Singers wield them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgreene196 Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 It’s funny how a couple years changes the value of Plate and Shardblades. In The Way of Kings, Blades, in particular are priceless. However, in a world with living Radiants, their value must be significantly less. Particularly on the battlefield. Still deadly against standard soldiers, but even against a Windrunner squire whose spoken the 2nd oath (so no Blade yet), that’s a match that doesn’t necessarily favor the Shardbearer. [Note: I may be biased know how many times we’ve seen Kaladin best Shardbearers when we know he’s not an ordinary Windrunner; well, he doesn’t seem ordinary.] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 They are probably reserving them for upper level fused. Also the fused might not want to risk using them. We don't know if they are retained on fused death. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/12/2020 at 8:30 PM, Karger said: They are probably reserving them for upper level fused. Also the fused might not want to risk using them. We don't know if they are retained on fused death. What do you mean by "retained". The blades would reappear like normal I imagine. And even if a Fused cannot use plate and blade because of the screams, I imagine a regal would have no problem using it. At least Eshoni seemed to be doing fine. And we also don't even know if storm form is the best Regal fighting form. How many sets of plate and blades do you think they have? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Master Silver said: What do you mean by "retained". The blades would reappear like normal I imagine They could not. We have no way of knowing. 1 hour ago, Master Silver said: And even if a Fused cannot use plate and blade because of the screams, I imagine a regal would have no problem using it Maybe but consider how much training a Lighteyes has with blade and plate and compare. In a match the regal is going to loose and while loosing will loose the shards. 1 hour ago, Master Silver said: How many sets of plate and blades do you think they have? Not many. That is kind of the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Am A Fish Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 41 minutes ago, Karger said: Not many. That is kind of the point. But we have no way of knowing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, I Am A Fish said: But we have no way of knowing. I suppose in theory they could have laid hands on some unimaginably large trove of shards but we have seen no evidence that they have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 I wonder if they know something we don't about the deadeye spren, and are worried they might be brought back and subsequently unbond the fused, leaving them weaponless. No evidence for this, just a thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 There is supposed to be a stash of shard blades and plate somewhere. I wouldn't put it past Odium to have hidden them. If they don't have access to those I'd imagine they have between 10-20 sets of blades and plate. They picked up two just from Moash. They likely picked up more with the conquest of Alethkar. But no real way of knowing with a year time skip. We haven't seen any radiants in dead plate, although according to Syl it is way less offensive than dead shard blades. I wonder if Odium is storing them and training Fused in their use for a massive final assault. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Master Silver said: They likely picked up more with the conquest of Alethkar Actually no. All publicly accounted for shards in Alethkar were at the shattered plains. 2 hours ago, Master Silver said: There is supposed to be a stash of shard blades and plate somewhere We think so based on the fact that the Radiants had more plate and blades then we currently know about. We don't yet know. 2 hours ago, Master Silver said: . I wouldn't put it past Odium to have hidden them. How? Pretty much all of his agents were disabled after the false desolation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 I cannot think of a reason that a Fused would not be able to used a deadeye Shardblade; at worst they would not be able to gem-bond it and so would not be able to summon and dismiss it. But that just puts them back to the first few centuries after the Recreance, where anyone could pick one up and Nobody could Bond one. A Fused should still be able to pick one up and swing it, which is still a huge tactical advantage against Radiants. Perhaps they alsohear the Screaming of the blades, making them too distracting for a Fused to use? On 8/12/2020 at 8:28 PM, dgreene196 said: It’s funny how a couple years changes the value of Plate and Shardblades. In The Way of Kings, Blades, in particular are priceless. However, in a world with living Radiants, their value must be significantly less. Particularly on the battlefield. Still deadly against standard soldiers, but even against a Windrunner squire whose spoken the 2nd oath (so no Blade yet), that’s a match that doesn’t necessarily favor the Shardbearer. [Note: I may be biased know how many times we’ve seen Kaladin best Shardbearers when we know he’s not an ordinary Windrunner; well, he doesn’t seem ordinary.] I disagree, the old Shards are no less valuable, they are simply not the absolute best anymore. But having one is the difference between having a chance against a Radiant and needing to throw piles of bodies at one to take it down. A Shardblade is not an insta-kill against a Squire or Radiant, but they are some of the only wounds bad enough to significantly tax Stormlight supplies, and it's still one of a very few known things that can Block a Shardblade. Meanwhile, Plate makes you immune to Surges, so those 2nd Ideal Squires would have far less advantage against one. They would have their own healing augmentation and whatever mobility their Order grants, but they wont be able to directly effect their target with anything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 So I guess you are right. At least there was not a Shard bearer in Kolinar during Oathbringer. To me that seems very strange. I don't remember anyone saying all the shard blades and plates of the Alethi were on the Shattered Plains, but if you remember that then must be. Have the fused attacked Vadinar yet? They have the second highest number of plates and blades after the Alethi right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, Master Silver said: So I guess you are right. At least there was not a Shard bearer in Kolinar during Oathbringer. To me that seems very strange. I don't remember anyone saying all the shard blades and plates of the Alethi were on the Shattered Plains, but if you remember that then must be. As far as I recall it was part of the Vengeance pact they all made, that all military might be committed to their retribution so leaving a shard behind would dishonor Gavilar. . In fact, if Im not mistaken part of Amaram's motivation for stealing a Shard was that it would get him out to the Shattered Plains where the "Real" governance was happening. 23 minutes ago, Master Silver said: Have the fused attacked Vadinar yet? They have the second highest number of plates and blades after the Alethi right? They have not hit the city of Vedenar yet (capital of Jah Keved), the coalition though they were headed there but went to Thaylen instead. Jah Keved was destroyed in civil war by the Diagram. That is correct, Jah Keved is (is-world) believed to have the second-most Shards, including about 20 shardblades and some number of plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GudThymes Posted August 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Master Silver said: I don't remember anyone saying all the shard blades and plates of the Alethi were on the Shattered Plains, but if you remember that then must be. I don't believe it ever being a real plot point in the books, more of an off comment in one of the first two. I believe it was around when Amaram shows up with shards, there's a comment about how it was an unaccounted for set and was added to all the Alethi shards at the Shattered Planes (with an emphasis being that all the Alethi shards are there). Regardless, we know that the Alethi have about half the worlds shards, and they have at most 30 complete sets. I think the only opportunity we've had yet to really see the Fused with shards would have been at the battle of Thaylenah. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 Well, we know that the Singers/Fused/Listeners have the blade and plate Eshoni carried. They also have Moash and his buddies, blade and plate (not sure if the second set was among the Alethi numbers). That makes 3 sets. Amaran Sadius had 2 blades and two sets of plate (all recovered by Dalinar and company). So was five, after the battle of Thylenah city back down to three. Did the Hardazians lose any? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Master Silver said: Well, we know that the Singers/Fused/Listeners have the blade and plate Eshoni carried. They also have Moash and his buddies, blade and plate (not sure if the second set was among the Alethi numbers). That makes 3 sets. Amaran Sadius had 2 blades and two sets of plate (all recovered by Dalinar and company). So was five, after the battle of Thylenah city back down to three. Did the Hardazians lose any? Per the Coppermind the Herdazians only ever had the one Blade that was passed down in the Royal Line, but it's hard to say where it is now. The Listeners were down to a single blade as of WOR just before the storm, though with the return of the Forms of Power they would have alternative tactical options too. Edited August 24, 2020 by Quantus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 On 23/08/2020 at 5:02 PM, Karger said: Not many. That is kind of the point. I-11 of Oathbringer. Venli gets a window cut into a storm shelter by Shard Blade at Kholinar. Apparently they like to keep them in key places they have to defend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Master Silver said: To me that seems very strange. I don't remember anyone saying all the shard blades and plates of the Alethi were on the Shattered Plains, but if you remember that then must be Dalinar mentions to Elhokar during their first conversation in WoKs that a it is a huge risk to keep every single shardbearer at the plains. 1 hour ago, GudThymes said: Regardless, we know that the Alethi have about half the worlds shards, and they have at most 30 complete sets. I think the only opportunity we've had yet to really see the Fused with shards would have been at the battle of Thaylenah. Closer to a third but yeah they have more then any other nation. 8 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: I-11 of Oathbringer. Venli gets a window cut into a storm shelter by Shard Blade at Kholinar. Apparently they like to keep them in key places they have to defend. Either that or they are keeping them in reserve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 It makes sense that they would keep them in reserve and then try to either bring them out for a last desperate defense, or steam roll the Radiants in a final push. One of the down sides to waiting, is that the humans/team Radiant has stabilized and gained a massive amount of combat strength with the huge influx of new Radiants and squires. With the influx of new Edge Dancers,and Truth Watchers. Casualties on the battle field are going to be a lot lower. Human Soldiers will fight with more confidence knowing that they can be healed of many once fatal wounds. Besides that, if the difference between dead plate and live plate is anything like between dead and live shard blades, once a good number of Radiants have sworn the 4th ideal, a squad (10) or even a platoon (30) of Regals or fused in dead plate is not going to be able to make up the power gap the Radiants will gain. And all of that is likely why there is going to be a fabrial arms race... only way to ultimately beat human Radiants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuram Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 The screaming has to do with the radiant bond, since non-radiants can't hear it. Fused can probably bind the blades and use them just fine. If you think about it, singers never had access to shardblades before, so the recreance effectively gives the voidbringers a way to arm themselves with weapons they never had access to before. The synopsis of RoW mentions an arms race, I originally thought that meant fabrial technology (and that's probably still a big part of it) but it could also be the race to find and hold more of the regular shardblades. We know there's a ton of missing shardblades too. There was some several hundred during the one flashback sequence of windrunners and stonewards abandoning their blades and we aren't even aware of a fraction of that many blades within Alethkar (and that was just two orders). I always felt that they are in Shinovar, there must have been a reason the Shin invaded towards the east multiple times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeBeforeDeath Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 3:30 AM, Karger said: They are probably reserving them for upper level fused. Also the fused might not want to risk using them. We don't know if they are retained on fused death. Is it possible that, like a Shardblade severing a man's soul, it can kill the "Odiumspren", so that it cannot return, even In the next Everstorm? We know that the Sylblade killed spren in the palace infiltration,back in WoR.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 7 hours ago, LifeBeforeDeath said: Is it possible that, like a Shardblade severing a man's soul, it can kill the "Odiumspren", so that it cannot return, even In the next Everstorm? Given that Kaladin has killed Leshwi I do not think shardblades can kill fused easily if at all. Given how much of a problem the fused are and the prevalence of the radiants in the old days this seems improbable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormFather! Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 Maybe you have to kill them while they are in spren form 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeBeforeDeath Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 4 hours ago, StormFather! said: Maybe you have to kill them while they are in spren form Yeah, but you can't fight them in spren form, not even The Pursuer . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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