Odium’s Champion (re-Reading to prep for RoW)

[Soby]

I’m re-reading Stormlight in order to prep for RoW. In Oathbringer in the Chapter “Riino,” Kal sees a vision when he touches the large sphere in the lighthouse. It says: 

“The enemy’s champion was coming. Kaladin knew in that moment—an overpowering sensation thrumming through him—that Dalinar was in terrible, terrible danger. Without help, the Blackthorn was doomed.
“Where!” Kaladin screamed to the light as it began to fade. “When! How do I reach him!”
The colors diminished.
“Please!”
He saw a flash of a vaguely familiar city. Tall, built along the stones, it had a distinctive pattern of buildings at the center. A wall and an ocean beyond.”

By reading a few pages further, we know that the city Kal sees is Thaylen City when he draws what he saw and Shallan confirms the location. We know it’s where the battle of Thaylen Fields eventually occurs...
 

I guess I’m wondering if this is suitable evidence that maybe were all over analyzing “the enemy’s champion” and that the enemy is Odium and his champion was Amaram? Kal’s vision says “odium’s champion” was coming and the place it was coming was the city Kal saw and drew, which is Thaylen City. 

Any thoughts? I’ve seen so much speculation as to who Odium’s champion will be, but maybe it simply was Amaram based on the vision Kal saw. 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Soby

[datalaughing]

Odium chose Dalinar as his champion. I think that's what Kaladin is referencing here, that without help, Dalinar would fall under Odium's sway and become his champion. That was the danger.

[GudThymes]

Seconding what @datalaughing said. Odium definitely intended it to be Dalinar. 

We know that futuresight is flawed, it's probabilistic and the actual future is not constrained to what is seen (foreseen). In the battle for Thaylen City we saw that Odium intended for Dalinar to consume Nergaoul and become his champion, but Dalinar was able to withstand this influence and instead capture Nergaoul in a perfect gemstone. 

Given that Odium failed in converting Dalinar into his champion I believe that he/she/they still have not been chosen and the climax of the first 5 will be a fight between Dalinar who is know becoming a splinter of Honor since he's merging with the stormfather and whomever Odium picks.

In my headcannon his champion is going to be Moash and Dalinar (now some weird offshoot of Honor splinter thing) will pick Kal as his. So we'll see a battle of the foils. 

[Halyo_Alex]

7 hours ago, GudThymes said:

In my headcannon his champion is going to be Moash and Dalinar (now some weird offshoot of Honor splinter thing) will pick Kal as his. So we'll see a battle of the foils. 

Yeah, that seems like the "obvious" endgame.

...Which of course means it's going to go absolutely NOTHING like that, and we'll get subverted in the best way possible.

[Winter]

As long we're going headcanon, I'm going with the "Hessina is Kharbranthian" theory with Lirin volunteering as tribute, I mean, champion. This makes Odium have to break either his agreement with Dalinar or his agreement with Mr. T (depending on your interpretation). 

[Halyo_Alex]

31 minutes ago, Winter said:

As long we're going headcanon, I'm going with the "Hessina is Kharbranthian" theory with Lirin volunteering as tribute, I mean, champion. This makes Odium have to break either his agreement with Dalinar or his agreement with Mr. T (depending on your interpretation). 

Ooh yeah, lock him in a Catch-22.

Or... would this be a Catch-16?

[Soby]

I finished my re-read. Yeah the book makes it clear that Dalinar is Odium’s chosen champion. But I’m curious now as to whether Odium can even pick a new champion? During Taravangian’s interaction with Odium, he sees that Odium can’t see Dalinar again or else he’d be forced to fight him himself, so he has to use “agents” to do his work for him. What do you guys think?

[Vessel of Theory]

I know this is kind of(totally) out there, and I've never heard the theory I'm about to propose anywhere else. I honestly think that Odium's Champion is going to be Taln, the Herald. I've seen theories and reasons for Adolin, Dalinar, Shallan, Kaladin, and Taravangian, but never Taln.

Just to make sure I've got the right memory of Dalinar's vision, which I'm pretty sure is all we have to work with, I'll paraphrase. Odium's Champion looks familiar to Dalinar, wears Shardplate, has spooky red eyes, and is surrounded by a brilliant light and nine shadows. Please, if I'm wrong, correct me.

Here's why I think Taln:

1) Familiarity: He and Dalinar both have the surge of Tension. Also, Taln has "been where needed" and Dalinar follows a semi-similar path, "uniting them", when and where they need to be united. I'm reasonably certain that Dalinar has either met Taln or some of the other Heralds, or that he will at least by the time Odium announces his champion. Adolin could make sense, but I feel like Sanderson would want genetics to be the tie we expect.

2) The Light: Taln is a Herald. I'm not a Cosmere professor, but didn't the Heralds have special access to Honor, giving them amazing amounts of Investiture? If someone became Odium's Champion, I think it would make sense for them to be almost like the Odium Herald. We don't know much about this light(I think), so this might be wrong.

3) Nine shadows: Ten Heralds. Nine broke the pact. Nine shadows, not because of the Unmade(not sure if it's been confirmed to be the Unmade), but because of the other nine Heralds, by this time all now either broken or destroyed(RIP Jezrien), and a reminder of what Taln was. Nine shadows of the men and women who broke the Oathpact. If the nine shadows are not the Heralds, I'd guess they are the Nine Fused(RoW), who Odium's champion would, in my opinion, have some kind of power over them as well as a similarity. If the nine shadows are the Unmade, I'd bet that it's because Taln either becomes a Stoneward Unmade(if there isn't one, or if the current one is trapped/destroyed). If anyone has info on what Orders each of the Unmade correspond to, that'd be great.

My final piece of evidence is Odium's requirement of Dalinar. "Give me your pain; It's not your fault, but mine". Taln is called "The Bearer of Agonies". He spent 4,500 years being tortured knowing that he had been betrayed and was being used. Taln has a lot of pain, and I could see him finally hanging the coat after however many thousands of years, dying and being tortured, then being betrayed.

[Frustration]

@Falkir the light is Odium

[Vessel of Theory]

Thanks. So then do we know what the nine shadows are? Anyone see holes with my theory, or have a stronger one? Have we seen glowing red eyes anywhere else?

[+Bzhydack]

Taln... No. He is too stubborn. If someone was able to withstand tortures 4,500 years and didnt break, he will not be traitor. Most probably, he has mind so crushed that he only remembers his Intent.

But im sold to theory, that indeed one of the Heralds will be Odiums Champion. Ishar, more specifically.

[Vessel of Theory]

I see your point that Taln might be too lost to mentally move out from his Intent. I don't agree that it's Ishar, despite the evidence. I agree that Ishar is bad, but he has become insane. I think that while Ishar may have orchestrated the False Desolation and the breaking of the Oathpact, he is not going to become Odium's Champion. I don't see enough drive for him to want it. I guess this takes me back to my point that of all the characters we've seen so far, Taln, the Bearer of Agonies, betrayed by literally everything and everyone he thought he could depend on, has the most pain to give to Odium. Honor, who made the Oathpact with Taln and the other Heralds, was killed by Odium. I think Ishar will play a significant role in Taln(or whoever Odium's Champion will be) forming Connection with Odium, but I doubt he has what Odium wants.

Additionally(and sorry if this is rambling, I just use too many words), Taln is the Herald of War. I think that Ishar in his madness is going to do some Taravangian-like act of villainy and mess around with the Oathpact and Connection.