SOM1else

Grasping at Straws: Did Gavilar survive Assassination?

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Here's why I think Gavilar isn't really dead.

 

The Facts:

1 - The title of each part of every book forms an in-world Ketek that has significance to the plot of the book.

2 - Important information is hidden in chapter headings, the Herald in the arch often signifies the theme of the chapter or indicates that the Herald depicted makes and Appearance.

3 - Chapter titles have contained major spoiler that aren't clear until much later e.g. "Honor is Dead"

4 - From this WoB it can be inferred that Gavilar knew about Adonalsium. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/221/#e7682

5 - Gavillar wanted to start a Desolation to bring the Heralds back and was in the process of learning to Worldhop.

6 - So far every Prologue has been named for a Verb that summarizes the experience of the viewpoint character. We know that Gavillar will be the viewpoint character of book 5. Knowing this I think it is safe to assume the his chapter will be titled "To Die"

 

Szeth - To Kill Jasnah - To Question Eshonai - To Weep Navani - To Pretend Gavillar - To Die

 

If I am correct, the prologue titles will form the sentence: "To kill, to question, to weep, to pretend to die".

 

This sentence is a summary of the life of Gavilar Kholin.

To Kill: as a youth he fought a bloody campaign to conquer the Altheti Highprinces and unite the kingdom under a single king.

To Question: As he got older he tired of war and sought meaning and purpose. He was lead to read The Way of Kings.

To Weep: Gavilar began to have visions from the Stormfather and learns of the death of his God. This motivates him to try to start a Desolation in order to bring back and destroy the Listener gods.

To Pretend to Die: The Listeners are horrified when they discover Gavilar's plans. They send Szeth to assassinate him and it appears that he is successful. In reality Gavilar survived as a Cognitive Shadow and will make an appearance in the Epilogue of Book 5.

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, SOM1else said:

This sentence is a summary of the life of Gavilar Kholin.

Hate be that guy but if you add another comma it works for the life of Gavilar that we know.  He killed, he questioned, he felt or engendered sorrow, he lied, and then he died.  It still is very interesting though.

Edited by Karger
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Agreed, but that's not nearly as fun to speculate about.

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I thought this was a great theory it could be possible but I don't think he survived they checked his pulse and all.

He has a funeral with his body I presume because Jasnah saw him die.

If he had disappeared I think she would know what happened now, her knowing how to transport better realms herself

Again great theory with a lot of detail I loved reading it.

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8 minutes ago, Adolinalsium said:

I don't think he survived they checked his pulse and all.

He has a funeral with his body I presume because Jasnah saw him die.

Mistborn Era 2 Spoilers:

Spoiler

I believe that he survives similar to the way that Kelsier survived being killed by the Lord Ruler. He "Died" but refused to pass on and will return at a later point. 

 

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2 hours ago, SOM1else said:

Mistborn Era 2 Spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

I believe that he survives similar to the way that Kelsier survived being killed by the Lord Ruler. He "Died" but refused to pass on and will return at a later point. 

 

How would he achieve this? He wouldn’t have lasted long enough in the Cognitive Realm to do much. 

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Interesting theory, but not enough concrete info to make a determination yet.

Big hole would be how did he prevent his passing to the spirit realm, did he have some way anchor himself to the Cog realm?  As far as I now you have to hold the power of a shard to do that, perhaps there is some other way to anchor Connection? I'm sure there is since cognitive shadows are a known thing.

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I can see by the magic mechanics of the Cosmere why Gavilar still being alive in some manner might seem viable. It certainly is plausible in-world, we've already had Szeth come back from the dead. It's narratively a mixed bag though: it certainly makes the prologues more important, but on the other hand we've already had far too many resurrections already, with Szeth and Jasnah.

Thematically, I don't think it's very likely. Gavilar's focus on his legacy and being snuffed out so swiftly without being able to see the things he wanted coming to fruition and being completely overshadowed by recent events just fit so much better.

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4 hours ago, Honorless said:

Thematically, I don't think it's very likely. Gavilar's focus on his legacy and being snuffed out so swiftly without being able to see the things he wanted coming to fruition and being completely overshadowed by recent events just fit so much better.

That sums it up nicely.

If we see non-flashback Gavilar in books 4 or 5 it will probably be in one of those weird dreams Dalinar has. In WoR Ch. 89 Dalinar dreams of Gavilar as a child, hears in him in the next room laughing. 

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On 8/11/2020 at 2:20 PM, SOM1else said:

Mistborn Era 2 Spoilers:

  Hide contents

I believe that he survives similar to the way that Kelsier survived being killed by the Lord Ruler. He "Died" but refused to pass on and will return at a later point. 

 

Ya that could be true I didn't think of that

Maybe he will take over honour like Vin did preservation but I doubt it

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We have had a few resurrections in the cosmere, but none that would apply to Gavilar.  

Jasnah

Was actually a fake out, as she jumped to Shadesmar.  She didn't leave a body behind.  Gavilar's body/death was seen by many people, including relatives (Jasnah, Navani) who recognized him.  

Szeth

Szeth was revived by Nale almost immediately after his "death" using a special fabrial.  We don't see anything of the sort happening.  

Kelsier

Kelsier was able to survive because he was infused with Preservation's Investiture in the Well of Ascension.  Had that not happened, he would have gone Beyond after a relatively short time.  For something similar to have happened to Gavilar, someone would have needed to have found him in the Cognitive Realm and gotten him to a large source of Investiture quickly.  No Shardpools were nearby, and his assassination was unplanned.  

Returned

Returned are directly revived by Endowment blessing them with a divine Breath.  We have no indication that any of the Rosharan Shards are doing something similar.  Returned also wake up relatively quickly after their death, which Gavilar did not do.  

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@Scion of the Mists

You forgot the most relevant resurrection type, which would be how the Fused are reborn. It might be interesting to see Gavilar return as a big bad in Book Five as his soul was preserved through some method of voidbinding through Connection to Odium.

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1 hour ago, Kramerfarve said:

@Scion of the Mists

You forgot the most relevant resurrection type, which would be how the Fused are reborn. It might be interesting to see Gavilar return as a big bad in Book Five as his soul was preserved through some method of voidbinding through Connection to Odium.

As much as I hope this doesn't happen, my bet is that we have Gavilar's cognitive shadow floating around somewhere and he will end up possessing somebody and being Odium's champion.

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To quote Navani, "What lay before her was an impossibility. Gavilar Kholin couldn’t simply die like other men."

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On 14/08/2020 at 10:17 PM, Scion of the Mists said:

Returned

 

Returned are directly revived by Endowment blessing them with a divine Breath.  We have no indication that any of the Rosharan Shards are doing something similar.  Returned also wake up relatively quickly after their death, which Gavilar did not do.  

Isn't that exactly what the Fused are? Odium just uses new bodies. The old ones are dust anyway.

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5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Isn't that exactly what the Fused are? Odium just uses new bodies. The old ones are dust anyway.

I would say that the processes between Returned and Fused are likely similar, compared to the other Cognitive Shadows we've seen. However, I believe that Returned are coming back in their original body (but then have subconscious control over appearance) whereas the Fused are sprenlike entities existing primarily in the CR and then inhabit the gemheart of a live Parsh and kick out the original soul of the body. It's my opinion that we say the Fused are a unique cognitive shadow entity until told otherwise. 

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