Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 What were Bleeder's spikes made out of? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalaksbreath Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said: What were Bleeder's spikes made out of? Trellium 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Right, but If the 3 magical systems on Scadrial were because of Ruin and Preservation (end- positive, negative, and neutral,) what is Trell's magic system, and how does it overlap? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalaksbreath Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said: Right, but If the 3 magical systems on Scadrial were because of Ruin and Preservation (end- positive, negative, and neutral,) what is Trell's magic system, and how does it overlap? We dont know but I think it has to do with the nature of autonomy and their ability's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, Kalaksbreath said: We dont know but I think it has to do with the nature of autonomy and their ability's. Whoa, hold on. Autonomy=Trell? I had no storming clue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said: Whoa, hold on. Autonomy=Trell? I had no storming clue. That's the prevailing theory at least. Brandon has said that Trell is related to a Shard we know and process of elimination has left Autonomy the most likely culprit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 The metal in the spikes is from a Shard that we already know and it's the actual Shard involved, not somebody stealing another Shard's godmetal and messing with it. Quote Chaos I'm sorry Brandon, you might RAFO me. *written* For the metal in Bleeder, is it from a Shard we know? <snipped> Brandon Sanderson …you push, yeah… There you are you got your answer. You got me. *writes* Yes. Footnote: at that time we knew 9 Shards: Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment and Autonomy Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) Quote Questioner Is the metal that Bleeder was associated with and had, is the Shard associated with that metal the same entity that's calling itself Trell? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Oathbringer Portland signing (Nov. 16, 2017) Because 'Trell' has to be associated with one of the known Shards, it's pretty easy to figure out which ones it isn't by process of elimination. We have a WoB that it's not Endowment, Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor are splintered, Odium is trapped on Braize and Cultivation is busy opposing him and it can't be Preservation or Ruin because Sazed doesn't recognize it. That leaves Autonomy as the best candidate. There's a bit of wiggle room for Odium and enough time has passed that maybe something has happened with D&D offscreen, but they're distant second places to the Shard that has an intent that could very well be interpreted along the lines we see Paalm doing (Brandon makes a point of how Autonomy can mean a lot of things without clarifying which one he's using), who we know is interfering on many worlds and who likes creating avatars of herself to carry out tasks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 A Godmetal but not of Harmony, as confirmed in-book by Harmony in The Bands of Mourning, beyond that we don't have any solid confirmation, only theories. Most people think it's Autonomy or one of her Avatars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Additionally it's subtle but religions we know that are associated with Autonomy or their Avatars give importance to celestial bodies Edited August 11, 2020 by StanLemon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, StanLemon said: Additionally it's subtle but religions we know that are associated with Autonomy or their Avatars give importance to celestial bodies There was a religion before Final Empire, Trelagism - their god was named also Trell. According to Coppermind: Quote Trelagism was a dualist religion named after the god Trell. Trell's opposite was Nalt, and the two were believed to be brothers. Trelagists believed that night was beautiful and daylight was profane. During the night, Trelagists were able to see the "Thousand Eyes of Trell" (the stars) watching over them. Jealous of the worship given to his brother, Nalt would shine his single eye (the sun) on the land during the day, blocking Trelagists from seeing Trell's eyes. Despite Nalt's attempts to outshine his brother, the Trelagists believed that Trell continued to watch over them during the day.[2] Their beliefs concerning the afterlife are described by Sazed as "almost whimsical," and their doctrine in general was left intentionally ambiguous on many issues in order to allow followers to "discover truth for themselves." Adherents were encouraged to pray to Trell, and believed that their god would respond to petitions.[3] Dualist nature Like Taldain, focus on Stars, order to "discover truths for themselves"... All this seems to me like Autonomy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koloss17 Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 All shards have their own god metal for allomancy, Feruchemy, and hemalurgy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 If trell is autonomy and nalt is trell's opposite, what is nalt? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said: If trell is autonomy and nalt is trell's opposite, what is nalt? That's going by the religion of Trelagism, we don't know how much truth might be recorded in it and how much are just myths that evolved with time Edited August 14, 2020 by Honorless Sorry about the double post, I wrote it all in the same response, but they somehow separated 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) On 8/12/2020 at 6:49 PM, Koloss17 said: All shards have their own god metal for allomancy, Feruchemy, and hemalurgy. Not exactly Quote Questioner If another Shard came to Scadrial, would that be enough to create a metal like atium, or...? Brandon Sanderson If another Shard just came to visit, probably not. Questioner If they brought a spren or-- Brandon Sanderson If they came and completely Invested the world, then things might start happening. But there's some special circumstances, remember. Ruin and Preservation created that planet. Specifically. And so there's some goofy things that happened because of that. For instance Roshar was not made by Honor, Cultivation, or Odium. That's one of the big differences about what's going on there. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) While Godmetals do exist for other Shards Quote muhkenzieb Are there equivalents to god metals for Shards on planets other than Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 4, 2018) An Allomancer wouldn't be able to burn it since they wouldn't have any Connection to the Shard in question, nor should a Feruchemist be able to store anything in them... maybe mixing them with Lerasium and other hacks. A Hemalurgist might be able to use them in some manner, we don't know. Edited August 14, 2020 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Hoid the Drifter said: If trell is autonomy and nalt is trell's opposite, what is nalt? It could just be another aspect of Autonomy as it has been said that there are entire pantheons where every God is Autonomy. That said though, I think it has more to do with religious syncretism where the Ruin Preservation dynamic was imposed on the original Trell religion. 59 minutes ago, Honorless said: An Allomancer wouldn't be able to burn it since they wouldn't have any Connection to the Shard in question, nor should a Feruchemist be able to store anything in them... maybe mixing them with Lerasium and other hacks. A Hemalurgist might be able to use them in some manner, we don't know. Arguably a Full Feruchemist could by using Duralumin Feruchemy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, StanLemon said: Arguably a Full Feruchemist could by using Duralumin Feruchemy I'd argue that'd give them access to the fuel, not the system, and they might not necessarily be able to directly use that fuel either 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 does Trell/autonomy have a magic system? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said: does Trell/autonomy have a magic system? Spoiler Magic systems are related to planets first, and second to Shards. Autonomy have one, SandMastery on DaySide of Taldain, where resides "main" Autonomy Avatar, Bavadin. But we know also about other Avatar, Patji, on First of the Sun, but we dont know is this Magic System Autonomy-related. Edited August 14, 2020 by Bzhydack 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) The two magic systems that are in some way connected to Autonomy have one very important thing in common. They rely on an Invested organism outside of the one using them. For Taldain it is the microscopic organisms that turn the sand white and for First of the Sun it is the parasites that the Aviars eat But as was said before, the planet is the first factor in the magic system. It is what decides the key that the magic systems revolve around. Such as metal for Scadrial and shapes for Sel Edited August 14, 2020 by StanLemon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 And on scadrial (maybe) it's the metal capturing the already existing magic and changing it, like the parasites change the Aviar and the microorganisms change the sand (allowing it to form solid things like steps, blades, springs) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 @Hoid the Drifter it's not so much metal capturing an existing magic system. It's more the magic sytem forming out of the interactions between the planet and the Shards Investing themselves in it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid the Former Drifter Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, StanLemon said: @Hoid the Drifter it's not so much metal capturing an existing magic system. It's more the magic sytem forming out of the interactions between the planet and the Shards Investing themselves in it Right. On scadrial, allomancy, feruchemy, and hemallurgy are interactions between the planet and the shards investing themselves in it. Trell literally comes in and forms a new way for this interaction between creatures and metal that changes the system. By the way, how did Paalm become affiliated with Trell? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Oh see what you meant now. Brandon has said Hemalurgy could be used anywhere in the Cosmere so it might be that any god metal could be used for Hemalurgy or perhaps Trell's attacks on Scadrial had Invested themselves enough to use it. We aren't sure how Paalm got involved. My guess is that she was upset about how Harmony got Wax to leave the roughs and Trell took notice and took advantage of taking one of Harmony's most effective agents away by sending an one of his agents to offer her a deal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) @Bzhydack, sorry to bother you but could you please spoiler that bit? Edit: thanks! Also, an error in choice of terminology Cosmere spoilers Spoiler Bavadin is Autonomy's Vessel, not an Avatar of Autonomy Edited August 15, 2020 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol Posted September 26, 2020 Report Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) On 8/11/2020 at 9:44 AM, Kalaksbreath said: Trellium Dont know if this has been discussed before but i just thought of this after seeing a WoB What if Trellium is just one of Autonomy’s god metals? We know that all Shards “have at least one” godmetal associated with them. when i saw this WoB, I immediately thought of Autonomy. god metals are unique to a Vessel/Shard pairing(only leras made Lerasium. only Ati made Atium, etc...) so this should mean that some of her Avatars might have their own Godmetal right?(Bavadin makes Bavidinium, Trell makes Trellium) so if Trell is indeed an Avatar of Autonomy, then I think that Autonomy has at least two god metals associated with her(Bavidinium and trellium) even if Trellium is just Bavadinium, im still adamant on my theory that she has more than one godmetal This isnt really important, just an interesting thought i had. Questioner Does every Shard, of divinity so to speak, have a metal associated to it? Brandon Sanderson They all have at least one. Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018) Edited September 26, 2020 by Eternal Khol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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