Fabrial Metals

[Quantus]

21 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

It may be my impression, but this Fabrial is Pushing the heat out the area.

 

21 hours ago, Innovation said:

I personally think the Fabrial was manifesting a bead of ice, then allowing it to melt naturally or melting using a heating Fabrial. 

As far as I could tell it wasnt anything like that sort of direct thermal energy manipulation, or actually manifesting water melt directly.  They had a Soul-Bead of permafrost, glacial ice that has never been melted, and by infusing it with Stormlight they forced it to manifest some (the same way Shallan does a bunch of times).  From there it just looked like it cooled off the metal frame, causing normal humidity condensation from the shadesmar atmosphere.   

Edited August 26, 2020 by Quantus

[Karger]

12 minutes ago, Quantus said:

huh?

You might be able to make a fabrail that creates a cognitive signature or whatever you want to call it of the thing your alerter fabrail looks for so you get a false positive. 

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

You might be able to make a fabrail that creates a cognitive signature or whatever you want to call it of the thing your alerter fabrail looks for so you get a false positive. 

Oh! Yes, absolutely.  Though I assume that sort of mimicry would be more complicated to pull off, being a more targeted effect, but it certainly sounds plausible.  

[StanLemon]

Back when I read Oathbringer I saw a parallel between the use of copper on the ship and the feruchemical use of copper. Transferring of cognitive information, it's one of the things that make me believe Scadrial will eventually have a Coppermind internet. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by StanLemon

[Raphaborn]

Oathbringer, 44.
"When she eventually finished, Kalami reported on her team, who were convinced that certain gold and copper metalworks they’d found embedded in walls were fabrials, but they didn’t seem to do anything, even with gems attached. "

Oathbringer, 99.
"A line of copper plating ran down the inside wall of the stairwell—and Kaladin had seen a similar ornamentation on the deck. He’d assumed it was decorative, but as the captain walked, he rested his fingers on the metal in an odd way."
[...]
Have you noticed that? Something about the copper lines set into the deck.” “The copper vibrates,” Shallan said. “And they keep touching it. I think they might be using it to communicate somehow.”
 

[Quantus]

15 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Oathbringer, 44.
"When she eventually finished, Kalami reported on her team, who were convinced that certain gold and copper metalworks they’d found embedded in walls were fabrials, but they didn’t seem to do anything, even with gems attached. "

Oathbringer, 99.
"A line of copper plating ran down the inside wall of the stairwell—and Kaladin had seen a similar ornamentation on the deck. He’d assumed it was decorative, but as the captain walked, he rested his fingers on the metal in an odd way."
[...]
Have you noticed that? Something about the copper lines set into the deck.” “The copper vibrates,” Shallan said. “And they keep touching it. I think they might be using it to communicate somehow.”
 

Yup, those were the passages I was looking at for Copper, thanks!

[+Oltux72]

On 18/08/2020 at 6:22 PM, Karger said:

OK if we are laying or guesses.

Tin communicates information from the PR.  Makes the spren more receptive to stimulation(good for alerters).

Pewter does the reverse of tin making the spren less receptive although maybe more active once that threshold has been reached(makes sure your alerters don't become too sensitive).  This also explains how Rysn's alerter fabrail could have worked(from Shin interlude).  She calibrated it ahead of time for the number of people they had.  That way it only noticed additional people.

Steel used in reversers. 

Iron used in conjoiners.  Both seem pretty obvious.  They work off of physical connections.

Unfortunately, no. Steel is used in half-shards (Oathbringer , chapter 100)
It is not quite as simple as that. They do something physical, but it has no connection with force.

[dgreene196]

I might have missed it, but is it presumed that the metal in the Heavenly Ones' spear-fabrials is Chromium, and it's leeching Stormlight form them?

Edited August 29, 2020 by dgreene196

[Halyo_Alex]

41 minutes ago, dgreene196 said:

I might have missed it, but is presumed that the metal in the Heavenly Ones' spear-fabrials is Chromium, and it's leeching Stormlight form them?

That's what I think. Not sure if that's the mainstream hypothesis.

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Unfortunately, no. Steel is used in half-shards (Oathbringer , chapter 100)
It is not quite as simple as that. They do something physical, but it has no connection with force.

I don't know how half shards work.  They steel could easily do both.

[Shardsplinter]

Augmenters using pewter!!!!!!!!!! And it's the metal that causes the fabrial to consume the higher amount of Stormlight?!!! Just like pewter allomancy is the one that burns metal the fastest. There are no longer just similarities, it's like we're are finally seeing the true importance of metals in the Cosmere. I'm telling u, this epigraphs heve me screaming of excitement every week. 

Huuummh...what would tin do??(since it's pewter partner)

[Karger]

On 8/18/2020 at 0:22 PM, Karger said:

Pewter does the reverse of tin making the spren less receptive although maybe more active once that threshold has been reached(makes sure your alerters don't become too sensitive).  This also explains how Rysn's alerter fabrail could have worked(from Shin interlude).  She calibrated it ahead of time for the number of people they had.  That way it only noticed additional people.

Looks like this one was wrong.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Shardsplinter said:

Augmenters using pewter!!!!!!!!!! And it's the metal that causes the fabrial to consume the higher amount of Stormlight?!!! Just like pewter allomancy is the one that burns metal the fastest. There are no longer just similarities, it's like we're are finally seeing the true importance of metals in the Cosmere. I'm telling u, this epigraphs heve me screaming of excitement every week. 

Huuummh...what would tin do??(since it's pewter partner)

Act as a diminisher. That is what you would use if you had a trapped flame spren and wanted to build a fridge.

[Quantus]

11 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Act as a diminisher. That is what you would use if you had a trapped flame spren and wanted to build a fridge.

Hmm,  possibly...  It said that Pewter would make it "express it's attribute in Force."  But with Roshar so heavily reliant on cognitive perception, would you need to Diminish a Flamespren to make cold, or do you instead need to go out and find a Frostspren to do it? By Rosharan logic.  

I do suspect you are right about Tin being a Diminisher, thought it may only diminish to equilibrium rather than a true reversal (ie Diminsh a flamespren only to ambient temp rather than continuing into a true Cold regions).  In the case of a different Force, you could probably use Tin to Diminsh a Mandra/Gravitationspren if you wanted to make a giant airship weightless, just as easily as you could use Pewter for an upward lashing to counter the airship's weight.  

 

[+Oltux72]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Hmm,  possibly...  It said that Pewter would make it "express it's attribute in Force."  But with Roshar so heavily reliant on cognitive perception, would you need to Diminish a Flamespren to make cold, or do you instead need to go out and find a Frostspren to do it? By Rosharan logic.  

You probably could. Yet we are not sure that for all effect there is a counterspren. Yet if tin does not make diminishers, then what does? Unless I am misunderstanding the nature of diminishers. The other choice I could see as remotely plausible would be copper.

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I do suspect you are right about Tin being a Diminisher, thought it may only diminish to equilibrium rather than a true reversal (ie Diminsh a flamespren only to ambient temp rather than continuing into a true Cold regions).  In the case of a different Force, you could probably use Tin to Diminsh a Mandra/Gravitationspren if you wanted to make a giant airship weightless, just as easily as you could use Pewter for an upward lashing to counter the airship's weight. 

I doubt that they are Gravitationspren. They are Spren of Mass. Gravitation does not make you lighter. You just fall into another direction. You can use that with a trick to make yourself lighter, but that is not the primary effect.

[Quantus]

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

You probably could. Yet we are not sure that for all effect there is a counterspren. Yet if tin does not make diminishers, then what does? Unless I am misunderstanding the nature of diminishers. The other choice I could see as remotely plausible would be copper.

I didnt say I thought Tin was not the way to make a Diminisher, just that I wasnt sure a Diminisher would be the way to make a refrigerator.  

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

I doubt that they are Gravitationspren. They are Spren of Mass. Gravitation does not make you lighter. You just fall into another direction. You can use that with a trick to make yourself lighter, but that is not the primary effect.

Eh, whatever you want to call them, we can stick with Mandra if you prefer.  Regardless they are the spren that were added into the setting to allow giant kaiju sized creatures to exist, and are credited with making them lighter to accomplish it.  

[theTruthshaper]

12 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

You probably could. Yet we are not sure that for all effect there is a counterspren. Yet if tin does not make diminishers, then what does? Unless I am misunderstanding the nature of diminishers. The other choice I could see as remotely plausible would be copper.

I doubt that they are Gravitationspren. They are Spren of Mass. Gravitation does not make you lighter. You just fall into another direction. You can use that with a trick to make yourself lighter, but that is not the primary effect.

Gravitationspren could also be used to weaken gravity/ reduce gravitational force. There is no reason for them to effect mass.

[+Oltux72]

2 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

Gravitationspren could also be used to weaken gravity/ reduce gravitational force. There is no reason for them to effect mass.

But there is. The chasmfiends do not splinter their legs when they jump. Momentum is important.

[theTruthshaper]

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

But there is. The chasmfiends do not splinter their legs when they jump. Momentum is important.

Chasmfiends jump?!

But we see skyeels hunting by crushing down on small animals. This would be much more difficult if they had very low mass.(Which they would need to fly)

[Karger]

19 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

But there is. The chasmfiends do not splinter their legs when they jump. Momentum is important.

Couldn't they just fall slower?

[theTruthshaper]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

Couldn't they just fall slower?

If the spren change mass, then they would not fall slower

If the spren change gravity, they will fall slower.

[+Oltux72]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Couldn't they just fall slower?

How would they catch whatever they are hunting? Remember how that chasmfiend hunting Shalland and Kaladin turned around and went around corners? An elephant trying that would end up with broken bones and dislocated joints.

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

How would they catch whatever they are hunting?

Long arms?  Jump one way and then strike with your hands?  Given how high they can jump I don't think that it will be a problem.

[+Oltux72]

29 minutes ago, Karger said:

Long arms?  Jump one way and then strike with your hands?  Given how high they can jump I don't think that it will be a problem.

They are hunting inside the chasms and go around corners like mad.

[Gilphon]

Because @Oltux72 was probably right that it belongs here rather than chapter discussion thread, here's my current model:

• Iron and Steel make a fabrial attract or repulse the spren's attribute
• Pewter makes the fabrial convert stormlight into the attribute
• Bronze makes Alerter fabrials, but only with Heliodors for reasons we still don't understand. Something about the difference between detecting the use of Investiture and detecting the presence of people, I suspect.
• Aluminium blocks off the effect, and also does whatever that technobabble Navani had about using aluminium in her airship meant.
• Diminishers, Conjoiners and Reversers are still mysterious to us. I understand the logic behind suggesting tin for Diminishers, but disagree; Tin has never acted as a reverse of Pewter that directly before.
• Copper and Tin presumably do things that they know about but Navani hasn't told us yet.
• Zinc and Brass affect how strongly any of the above effects manifest. So Pewter creates heat, but zinc and brass are temperature controls. Steel can draw in water, but Zinc and Brass control how quickly the water moves. And so on.