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In the RoW Chapter 6 epigraph it is stated that the fabrial function is determined in part by the metal used. I think it would be worthy to ask Brandon if the metals used in the metallic arts are the same that can produce functional fabrials.

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I mean, I'm sure at least one of them is the same, since we've seen Aluminium used to make Fabrials do weird things. It would, indeed, surprise me quite a bit if there wasn't a significant degree of overlap between the two lists, because the a bunch of the Allomantic Metals are the ones they'd be most likely to experiment with. Like iron, steel, tin and copper. 

It's weird, though. Metals shouldn't be an inherent part of how Fabrials work; Chasmfiends are hardly surrounding their gemhearts with metal wiring. It feels almost like they've added some Hemalurgy into the mix, but if so, it's an application of Hemalurgy that does not resemble anything we've seen before. 

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I don't just mean overlap between the two sets of metals. I wonder if the set of metals that can be used to create fabrials are exactly the functional metals of the metallic arts.

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33 minutes ago, LiquidBlue said:

I don't just mean overlap between the two sets of metals. I wonder if the set of metals that can be used to create fabrials are exactly the functional metals of the metallic arts.

Seems probable.

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...inb4 turning the cage into a metalmind can tweak the fabrial's effects or potency/efficiency.

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this makes me wonder how many Scadrians are on Roshar working with groups in the back ground perhaps lending their allomantic knowledge to help design fabrials.  The ghostbloods are obviously realmatically and cosmere aware, have been to quite a few planets and have members from different planets.  There seems to be quite a bit happening behind the scenes on Roshar that we are completely unaware of, I would love to get a secret histories type book on Roshar.

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19 hours ago, Gilphon said:

It's weird, though. Metals shouldn't be an inherent part of how Fabrials work; Chasmfiends are hardly surrounding their gemhearts with metal wiring. It feels almost like they've added some Hemalurgy into the mix, but if so, it's an application of Hemalurgy that does not resemble anything we've seen before. 

Why wierd?

Spren inside gemstone determines Fabrial function main function, but cage of fabrial - metals with different shapes and types - determines what part of this function is important. Painrial will be good example - probably trapped spren is painspren (fabrial affects pain) but has two modes. I think it uses two different metals and can mechanicly swich between them.

I also think better bit will be search through not only allomantic but also feruchemical and hemalurgic properties of metals. Anyone remember from what are made heaters? Maybe its brass? Or maybe gemheart of chasmfiends is surounded by iron? Or alerters, from what they ar made? Maybe bronze?

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Posted (edited)

All solid Investiture is in metal form. If you want to regulate the Fabrials, you would presumably need something Invested. Doesn’t seem like overlap from Scadrial to me, but rather just finding the best material. As for metal type, Fabrials likely don’t need Allomantic purity or even have the metal be an Allomantic metal. We will learn more from the next Epigraph hopefully. 

Edited by Innovation
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34 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Why wierd?

Spren inside gemstone determines Fabrial function main function, but cage of fabrial - metals with different shapes and types - determines what part of this function is important. Painrial will be good example - probably trapped spren is painspren (fabrial affects pain) but has two modes. I think it uses two different metals and can mechanicly swich between them.

 

A big part of the reason I find it weird is that we already had two different ways of modifying the effect; the type of gem matters, and the Singer forms show us that the mindset of the person doing the trapping matters as well. So here we're suddenly introducing a third way of doing it, one that doesn't appear to be utilized in any of the naturally occurring forms of this phenomenon. And this is the very first mention we've had of different metals having different magical properties on Roshar (aside from aluminium, of course).

It also makes Fabrials jaw-droppingly open-ended. There are likely to be dozens- maybe even hundreds- of things that can be with each individual type of spren: ten types of gem, probably a roughly similar number of useful metals, and likely two or three valid mindset = 200 or 300 hundred possible effects before you even consider the type of spren, which is likely to be the factor the introduces the most variance. And then you have to consider the implications of using multiple gemstones in a single device to combine effects and stuff like that. The potential here is staggering. 

So. I hope that illustrated why I was somewhat taken aback by the idea of the type of metal mattering. 

34 minutes ago, Innovation said:

All solid Investiture is in metal form. If you want to regulate the Fabrials, you would presumably need something Invested.

This doesn't follow. Solid investiture may be metal, but not all metal is solid investiture. In fact most isn't. The metals they're using are no more likely to be invested than any other material they might have chosen. Unless they decided it was a good idea to use Shardblades as Fabrial components or something crazy like that.

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1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

 

This doesn't follow. Solid investiture may be metal, but not all metal is solid investiture. In fact most isn't. The metals they're using are no more likely to be invested than any other material they might have chosen. Unless they decided it was a good idea to use Shardblades as Fabrial components or something crazy like that.

The metals are an access key that let people tap into a specific arrangement of investiture. It would make sense that the metal could be rigged to apply the unlocked effect in another system. 

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On 11/08/2020 at 7:25 PM, Gilphon said:

It's weird, though. Metals shouldn't be an inherent part of how Fabrials work; Chasmfiends are hardly surrounding their gemhearts with metal wiring. It feels almost like they've added some Hemalurgy into the mix, but if so, it's an application of Hemalurgy that does not resemble anything we've seen before. 

Chasmfiends (and skyeels) have their spren outside their bodies, not in their gem hearts. Shallan and Kaladin definitely saw them outside of a living chasmfiend and noted that they are the same type generally observed with skyeels. These animals are not organic fabrials. They must be using a primitive predecessor of the Nahel bond. In fact they likely have gemhearts for the very same reason the Knights Radiant are carrying spheres. They need a storage for Stormlight, which in the case of greatshells must last for a whole Weeping.

Only Singers carry a spren in their gemheart.

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9 hours ago, Gilphon said:

A big part of the reason I find it weird is that we already had two different ways of modifying the effect; the type of gem matters, and the Singer forms show us that the mindset of the person doing the trapping matters as well. So here we're suddenly introducing a third way of doing it, one that doesn't appear to be utilized in any of the naturally occurring forms of this phenomenon. And this is the very first mention we've had of different metals having different magical properties on Roshar (aside from aluminium, of course).

Special mindset is needet probably just to attract spren. We know that spren need to be atracteb by something ot knows very well. Singer form is dependent only on spren, so they are like most basic organic fabrials.

But normal fabrials dont have minds other than spren. They also arent Connected with artifabrian in any way. So they need something for directing spren powers. Like software.

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I have always suspected that the reason for RoW being released earlier than Mistborn 7. It is very likely that it has to do with Fabrials and their relationship with metals. Somehow RoW will still leave surprises for TLM, but if Mistborn came first it would give too many revelations about the Fabrials in advance.
They already had theories about it even before the confirmation of the role of metals in Fabrials.
Example, when Adolin is watching a heatrial in WoK.
"Several large rubies glowed brightly, set atop poles, with worked golden tines holding them in place."
Brass is a golden metal. Coincidence? Or is that what Brandon wants you to think?

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Allomantic metals or at leas metals very close to them have specific effects. After all, color plays an important part in two different magic systems (Awakening and Surgebinding) from different worlds so why not metal?

Edited by StanLemon
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Well, at one point Brandon did refer to "Fabrials" as a "magic system" (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e5153), on par with surgebinding and voidbinding.

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archive, and how many of them haven't been seen?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

 

So based on this, it's certainly possible that "fabrials" in general could have as much power and variety as all the orders of the knights radiant combined. It's just that it's a magic system that requires precise construction and knowledge rather than swearing oaths and bonding spren. And it's a magic system that, so far has been very little explored - we knew of "Spanreeds" and "Soulcasters" but now we're starting to get deeper into the weeds and seeing some of the depth of the magic system that we haven't before. 

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Part of that answer is in Oathbringer. Kalami reports that gold and copper constructs were considered to be fabrials. It is highly likely that these metals are commonly used for fabrials.

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Fabrials definitely have the most potential for growth and complexity, maybe even comparable to the aon system. In the long run I see Fabrials being very important in the future development of the cosmere as a whole because of just how open-ended it is.

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On 8/11/2020 at 1:44 PM, LiquidBlue said:

I don't just mean overlap between the two sets of metals. I wonder if the set of metals that can be used to create fabrials are exactly the functional metals of the metallic arts.

So Chapter 7's intro states that zinc (rioting) = excites the spren (it manifests "more strongly"), and brass (soothing) = calms the spren (causes it to "dim"). Hmm. HMMMM

 

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OMG, just read the Chapter 7 epigraph and literally screamed of emotion. Everybody araound me looked at me like I was crazy. To everybody saying that there was going to be some relation between allomancy and the metals used on the fabrials I'm starting to think u where Right! Zinc and brass allowing to control expression streanght! if u can't see the analogy to allomancy u r trying to miss it. Now I'm extra excited yo read what other kind of metals are used and what effect this has on the spren. This actually is starting to make lots of sense to me: the same way the metals burned by a misting serve as a hey to tell the investidure coming from Preservation what to do, the metals in a fabrial tell the spren what to do with the investidure coming from the stormlight. So cool.

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So it really wasn't a coincidence. Altogether we have three metals: Aluminum, Zinc and Brass. All three mirroring allomantic abilities.
I thought that brass in Heatrial was mirroring F-Brass, but in the end it was A-Brass (dampen the Spren). I think it makes sense, Alomancy is also a positive system. Although in this case you are using Stormlight as fuel, not Preservation.

Will there also be 16 base metals? Everything is connected, and there is always another secret.

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We practicly have conformation.

Allomantic metals ARE affecting Fabrials. And have effect on Spren. Long, long time ago I was theoretizing about this, now we can be sure!

5 minutes ago, Raphaborn said:

Altogether we have three metals: Aluminum, Zinc and Brass

We saw alerter fabrial, made with "golden metal" - this can be bronze.

We can also think about other metal effects:

- Tin will allow Spren to act more precise

- Pewter - to affect larger area

- Chromium - probably used in Leecher Fabrial.

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Theory: Warning Fabrials are made with Bronze. Attractors with Iron, and its reverse version with Steel

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Posted (edited)

I mean, those properties could be inherent to the metals, just the Metallic Arts stem from Preservation and Ruin, they provide the fuel, but the key is still the metal. As long as you're not trying to use the metals to access their power, the metal could still act as a filter. This is what I suspect is happening.

P.S. this topic:

so zinc and brass make sense, they must affect the Cognitive in Allomancy as well

Quote

Questioner

Quick question on aluminum. Why does it affect other forms of Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

When I was building the cosmere, I just had to build certain themes into it, and metal was one of those. And the metals have kind of a Spiritual integrity, and Spiritual component, that if I can get into Dragonsteel explaining why, you'll get your kind of origins.

Questioner

And that's why, in Warbreaker, metals are different with Awakening, and stuff.

Brandon Sanderson

And even in Roshar, the cages that you're building for fabrials, once you start to figure out how those metals affect it, you'll be like, "Oh wait, that makes sense!" And these are just across the cosmere.

And if you want an in-world answer, it has to do with stuff in Dragonsteel. But really, the answer is, I was building this and I'm like, "I just want this to be a theme. So I'm just going to give this Spiritual component to metals." So it works in Mistborn, and it works all across everything.

LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020)

 

copper and bronze might also be usable and have similar effects to Allomancy when used in fabrials

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory
Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

Quote

Aethenoth

Can an Allomantic bronze burner hear the Rhythms on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible.

General Signed Books 2016 (May 2, 2016)

 

Edited by Honorless
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As everyone's noticed, the latest epigraph seems to strengthen the idea that the metallic arts metals are the same ones that produce viable fabrials. What is interesting is that the effect of zinc and brass seems related to their allomantic effect. With that idea, I'm going to propose the effect of other metals based on their allomantic effects.

metal, allomantic effect, proposed fabrial effect

steel, pushes on nearby metals, allows spren effects to be combined (maybe the disjoint of the two spren effects?) allows more than one spren in a fabrial

iron, pulls on nearby metals, allow spren effects to be combined (maybe the union of the two spren effects?) allows more than one spren in a fabrial

pewter, increases physical abilities, allows selection of spren effect within a narrow window of possibilities

tin, increases sense, allows selection of spren effect within a narrow window of possibilities

Zinc, enflames emotions, cause the spren inside to more strongly manifest

Brass, dampens emotions, cause the spren to withdraw and its power to dim

Copper, Hide allomantic pulses, insulated the spren from investiture pulses

Bronze, detect allomantic pulses, make the spren sensitive to investiture pulses

Duralumin, enhances current metal burned, meta effect on other metals used

Aluminum, wipes internal allomantic reserves, meta effect allows fabrial function to be suspended and redirected.

Nicrosil, enhances allomantic burn of target, meta effect (maybe allows one fabrial to affect another?)

Chromium, wipes allomantic resevers of target, meta effect (maybe allow one fabrial to affect another?)

Gold, reveals your past self, Changes the spren effect

Electrum, reveals your future self, change the spren effect

Cadmium, slow down time, decrease rate of spren effect

Bendalloy, speed up time, increase the rate of spren effect

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Posted (edited)

In addition, the Fused might be using chromium/aluminium/nicrosil/duralumin for suppressing Surgebinding/Stormlight use, if metals are involved in that, then this quadrant is a safe bet for what could be causing that effect

Edited by Honorless
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