RoW Chapter 6 Discussion

[teknopathetic]

I wonder if Kal will be asked to use Nighblood to perm-kill Leshwi and then I wonder if that would break him 

Edited August 11, 2020 by teknopathetic

[Ansalem]

For those speculating about Renarin's future sight:

Seeing the future isn't actually tied to Odium as Vorinism teaches, at least not directly. They're right that it's dangerous and shouldn't be trusted, but they're wrong about why. It's a power that exists across the Cosmere and it's tied to the Spiritual Realm itself. Any Shard of Adonalsium could potentially grant access to it. All of the Shards can use it themselves (some better than others) but none of them actually have any power over it as far as I'm aware.

As an aside, it's the reason Hoid always knows where he's supposed to be. He uses a power called Fortune. It's unclear whether all future sight is Fortune or not.

The point I'm getting at with all of this is that Renarin has some connection to the Spiritual Realm that other Truthwatchers don't have. In fact, other than Dalinar, Renarin seems to be the closest to it out of all the Radiants we know about.

I suspect he'll be the key to Navani figuring out how to activate Urithiru and possibly waking the Sibling. She needs to ask him what he sees when Dalinar opens the Perpendicularity instead of Rushu or other scholars.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Ansalem

[Michael Portz]

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

Kaladin thinks she's just testing him, but he learned all that maneuvering from copying, dueling & racing her

Well spotted!

[EddyJ]

I, for one, am 100% on board with the plan to kill Ialai. 

I'm also a Skybreaker. Checks out.

[Karger]

25 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Didn’t Honor go mad before he died for good? Perhaps he locked travel without considering what he was doing. 

Maybe.

3 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

Wait, was this a small mistake? Why is Leshwi bleeding when all her wounds were inflicted by Syl? Do shardblades interact differently with Fused?

She might have torn something when Kaladin rammed her.

[Lightspine]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

She might have torn something when Kaladin rammed her.

Turns out I actually missed this, but she was bleeding before that too:

Quote

He caught her in the shoulder, making her gasp in pain. She ducked his follow-up slash, but again had trouble maneuvering her lance as he slashed her in the leg.

For a moment, the struggle was everything. Leshwi dropped her lance and pulled a short sword from her belt, then came in closer than Kaladin had expected, knocking aside his spear and trying to grab him by the arm. Her bleeding cuts healed slowly enough that he was able to ram his shoulder into her wound, making her grunt. When she tried to slide the sword into his neck, he deflected it with a Sylbuckler that appeared on his arm.

This is very, very strange. Since it's been written twice, I'm lead to believe that it isn't an error. Maybe the fact that the Singer who originally owned the body is dead means the shardblade treats the Fused's body like a dead body?

[The Ryshadium]

11 minutes ago, EddyJ said:

I, for one, am 100% on board with the plan to kill Ialai. 

I'm also a Skybreaker. Checks out.

I might be okay with it depending on the situation. I need more context to know if it's a bad idea or not. I would really like to know more about what happened with Ialai during the year gap.

To clarify, it really depends on whether killing her will do more help or harm to the Dalinar's and the radiants' cause. I could see a situation where her death could prevent a lot of problems, but it could also cause more problems.

Edited August 11, 2020 by The Ryshadium

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

This is very, very strange. Since it's been written twice, I'm lead to believe that it isn't an error. Maybe the fact that the Singer who originally owned the body is dead means the shardblade treats the Fused's body like a dead body?

Or maybe one of bridge four injured her?

[Lightspine]

Just now, Karger said:

Or maybe one of bridge four injured her?

I don't think that's what the text implies here. Kaladin doesn't notice any injuries on her before this, and the last quote comes right after he cut her twice. It would be a very weird choice on Brandon's part if he wasn't referring to the wounds that Kaladin had just inflicted. Plus, Sigzil was also using a shardspear in this chapter, so if you're correct then it was a different windrunner who did it. I doubt it.

[ScadrianTank]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Or maybe one of bridge four injured her?

That would break the challenge the Fused offered, and Sigzil doesn't seem to land any hits on her during their duel.

[Michael Portz]

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

[...], they're kept in line by the knowledge that Odium could yank away their immortality any time he wants. So they have free will as long as they don't annoy Odium enough to make him decide they're not worth keeping around, and presumably are allowed just do their own things most of time. 

I cannot imagine that eternal live has any attraction to them after their millennia on Braize. Rine explicitly states:

Quote

"This world will not be ours; we fight to give it to you, our descendants. When it is won, our vengeance taken and our homeland secured at long last, we will sleep. Finally.”"

 – Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive von Brandon Sanderson
https://amzn.eu/drgpfBS

So iff the Ancient Ones do have autonomy, they will do what they think is right.

[Lightspine]

I took a look back at chapters 4&5 to see if I could spot anything about shardblade cuts bleeding. When Kaladin's fighting the less skilled Fused, he mentions this at the end of the battle:

Quote

He’s out anyway, Kaladin thought as the creature’s arm flopped down at his side, useless and dead from a Shardspear cut. What good is another death?

So, sounds like it's behaving like normal right? Except that before this moment, a lot of the language about how Syl is effecting the Fused is kind of odd. For example:

Quote

This Heavenly One wasn’t as good as Leshwi. Kaladin scored yet another slice along the enemy’s arm. The cut—though inflicted with a Shardblade—soon healed, but each healing came more slowly. The enemy’s Voidlight was running out.

Kaladin keeps referring to the injuries as cuts throughout these passages (there's some other instances beyond this quote), and also says he scores a slice. That's not language that's often associated with shardblades, is it?

I honestly have no idea what's going on anymore. I think @Karger is being a little swift to dismiss the bleeding in chapter 6 given how it is framed in the text, but I completely understand his skepticism.

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

Kaladin keeps referring to the injuries as cuts throughout these passages (there's some other instances beyond this quote), and also says he scores a slice. That's not language that's often associated with shardblades, is it?

It makes sense.  A cut does not sever but a slice does.

[Lightspine]

17 minutes ago, Karger said:

It makes sense.  A cut does not sever but a slice does.

Uh, in the quote I just gave, "the cut" and the "slice" are both referring to the same wound.

But about the heart of your point, I agree that a shardblade doesn't disable a limb unless it goes deep enough to sever the center of the limb. (or the nerves? Since severing the spine kills you. But how much is it anatomy and how much is it shaped by perception?) But a shardblade injury that only scrapes the surface of a limb shouldn't leave a cut there, just limp flesh.

Anyway, most of my confusion comes from the blood in chapter 6. Nobody spoke up about anything weird in this department last week because last week's chapters didn't give any real evidence that the shardblades were leaving physical wounds, just some vague language. I wouldn't have been discussing this at all if those passages were all we had to go off of. But I think Leshwi's bleeding is pretty much inarguably caused by Syl. The only conclusions I can come to is that either:

1. The less skilled Fused wasn't bleeding but Leshwi is. (I don't like this idea)
2. Somehow the shardblades both leave bleeding wounds (like we see with Leshwi) and will disable if they hit the core of the limb (like the other Fused from Chapter 4).

Edit: Anyway, I went over to reddit in hopes that somebody had asked Brandon about this already. Turns out someone has, but he hasn't responded yet, so will be keeping tabs on this comment: 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Lightspine

[Cheat Commando]

Immensely relieved that Sigzil did not die. He's one of my favorite Bridge Four members.

I wonder if Shallan and Radiant can sense Veil's intentions... If not, then I foresee a catastrophic power struggle happening when Veil makes her move, the 3 personalities clashing together, fighting each other for dominance, with Ialai making her escape in the process.

[Karger]

9 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

Uh, in the quote I just gave, "the cut" and the "slice" are both referring to the same wound.

Sorry.  What would you call it then

9 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

But a shardblade injury that only scrapes the surface of a limb shouldn't leave a cut there, just limp flesh.

Maybe he has dulled the edge for some reason or he is using the haft of the spear to bruise badly enough to bleed?

2 minutes ago, Cheat Commando said:

Immensely relieved that Sigzil did not die. He's one of my favorite Bridge Four members.

High fives!

2 minutes ago, Cheat Commando said:

I wonder if Shallan and Radiant can sense Veil's intentions... If not, then I foresee a catastrophic power struggle happening when Veil makes her move, the 3 personalities clashing together, fighting each other for dominance, with Ialai making her escape in the process.

Depends.  They might be able to.  Hopefully it won't come to that.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Karger

[Lightspine]

Just now, Karger said:

Maybe he has dulled the edge for some reason?

Possible, it's a good idea and it could certainly explain what we see. Just seems... like a really weird decision.

All the Kaleshwi shipping is making me tempted to suggest that Kaladin subconciously doesn't want to kill Leshwi and is dulling his weapon on accident.

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Lightspine said:

Possible, it's a good idea and it could certainly explain what we see. Just seems... like a really weird decision.

Agreed.  I wonder if blades work like that. 

2 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

All the Kaleshwi shipping is making me tempted to suggest that Kaladin subconciously doesn't want to kill Leshwi and is dulling his weapon on accident.

Or perhaps that Kaladin is "loosing his edge."  (I know it is terrible)

[Lightspine]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Or perhaps that Kaladin is "loosing his edge."  (I know it is terrible)

On a serious note, maybe he actually is subconsciously unwilling to kill in general—not just because it's Leshwi, but the same reason he spared that other Fused. He's tired of violence that goes nowhere. So it's causing Syl to behave like Wyndle when she becomes a weapon.

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

or he is using the haft of the spear to bruise badly enough to bleed

Because of how the fight is described, I think this is less likely than the dull-blade theory. But not impossible.

[Ansalem]

The bleeding could be caused by the shape of the weapon. He stabs the tip of the spear in which is sharp at the point so it doesn't leave a physical wound but it might not be sharp along the sides so when he rips through her shoulder the blunt side might tear the flesh?

I don't think there's been any description in any of the books of any kind of Shard weapon being yanked out of someone along the flat/round edge of a Blade/Spear. So it would be weird if that's the explanation without it being explicitly stated, but just something to consider in general not just for this particular set of scenes.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Ansalem

[Master Silver]

It is a little unclear, but at some point Kaladin had a regular spear, and his side knife too. Hard to keep track of it all for me. 

[Lightspine]

3 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

It is a little unclear, but at some point Kaladin had a regular spear, and his side knife too. Hard to keep track of it all for me. 

He used those in Chapter 4, but they aren't mentioned in Chapter 6.

5 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

The bleeding could be caused by the shape of the weapon. He stabs the tip of the spear in which is sharp at the point so it doesn't leave a physical wound but it might not be sharp along the sides so when he rips through her shoulder the blunt side might tear the flesh?

I don't think there's been any description in any of the books of any kind of Shard weapon being yanked out of someone along the flat/round edge of a Blade/Spear. So it would be weird if that's the explanation without it being explicitly stated, but just something to consider in general not just for this particular set of scenes.

That's a neat idea!

[Goatbringer]

Anyone else really hoping for one of the art pieces to be schematics for the Fourth Bridge?

[Innovation]

Yes, then I can change my picture.

[Master Silver]

There is something about having to sever the soul of the limb in order for it to die. I think if you go back to chapter 4 Brandon might mention some of the dynamics of the fighting.