Windrunner Gear Should Be Better

[Karger]

So far I have been less then impressed by our Windrunner's getups.  The pouches of spheres inside the uniform makes sense but other then that none of them seem to have weapons or items specifically designed to take advantage of their powers.  We have not seen their full capabilities yet but I think we should be able to equip them much better then they are currently.

To start with.  INVEST IN SOME DARTS.  I can't believe no one has thought of this.  We see Kaladin lash a spear and he has to pick one up specifically for the purpose but why not just carry a couple dozen heavy darts?  In short to mid range those would be deadly.  Also they would quickly deplete enemy fused's voidlight and be hard to remove once in.

Face masks?  Windrunners should have eye protection so that they can travel at high speeds without closing their eyes.  This might be problematic for peripheral vision but someone should look into this.

Fabrail tec communications.  We recently learned a bit more about fabrails.  While it is impossible to make a spanreed work while moving we do know that you can send flashes of light down one.  We also know about a fabrail type that buzzes.  Assuming those flashes of light are stormlight you could move stormlight between gemstones across distances.  We also know that stormlight moves into smaller stones from larger ones so you could probably use this to send patterns of buzzes for communication.  Kaladin does this with his spear and shield during WoKs banging them in patterns to tell his forces what formation he wants them in.  Imagine how hard it would be force the fused to fight a force that across great distances and at high speeds knew when to break off, when to regroup, and would change tactics frequently.  It would be a nightmare.

Anyone else have good ideas?

[Pathfinder]

A parachute so if the windrunner runs out of stormlight they have a back up so they don't just go splat. Yes they could still get cut out of the air, but it would give other windrunners a chance to form up around him or her, and resupply the person. 

Building on the dart idea, maybe serrated knives, or harpoons. That way they stick in draining voidlight and deal more damage when torn out. 

Wingsuits might result in added maneuverability.

Litters for carrying people from hotspots. Kind of like the type the coast guard uses. Instead of having to maintain lashes on multiple people in multiple directions, have everyone pile into the litter, lash it up to lighten it, and using a handle or cord, pull it behind you while you lash yourself. If its a handle, then you can easily maintain the lashings keeping it light, or if its a cord, same principle. 

 

That's all I got so far off the top of my head.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by Pathfinder

[joesleepsalot]

I second the darts, I recall mentioning a similar thing to someone on the windrunner vs skybreaker duel but instead had suggested rocks or something.... either way, projectiles are definitely a must-have. 

In theory they could have essentially magazine fed weapons, when the projectile is in the chamber and getting lashed repeatedly/charged up, there’s a “gate” or block that gets removed with a simple trigger pull. This would allow for sights and more aimed/precise ranges attacks. Even something like a Tippman 98 with a 200rd hopper of marbles or stones would do the trick. If there’s be a way to supercharge the rounds with a lash-inducing fabrial then it’d essentially allow for semi-auto or even full auto firing without depleting the storm light reserve of the windrunner. But if that’s the case, then any order of radiant could roll hot with one. 

I think with Navani’s fourth bridge there’s the potential for self-contained fighters/jets... smaller scale gemstone controls but the apparatus either lashed by a windrunner or skybreaker pilot to allow for a lighter ride requiring less large scale fabrial power?? Dude in the back seat (like goose in the f-14) could run weapons (like above but larger) while the pilot (maverick in the front seat) runs controls
 

Desert storm style dune buggies carrying a team of Radiants....edgedancers could slick the skids and windrunners or someone else provides the momentum. 
 

skybreakers or dustbringers could provide defense to any hostile incoming projectiles??

[Lightspine]

I saw somebody on a different post say that darts probably won't be much more than a nuisance for Fused, since they can heal. So I have an alternative idea: grappling hooks!

Have some sort of a hook attached to a rope. If you can snag a Fused, you get a massive advantage, especially since their only edge is their mobility. If you have them on a leash, you can reel them in and make that advantage void (hehe).

Also, this might sound ridiculous but maybe something like a wingsuit? Kaladin describes how changing course by using wind resistance allows for more elegance and precision flying. Exactly what a wingsuit could enhance. Having some sort of flaps to catch the wind might slow you down, but it would also make it easier to turn sharply/control the direction of your flight. In short, it could help them move more like the Fused.

Edit: just noticed another commenter thought of wingsuits first.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Lightspine

[Karger]

7 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I saw somebody on a different post say that darts probably won't be much more than a nuisance for Fused, since they can heal.

They can but not from shots to the head or spine.  Additionally I was thinking they could be used right before you closed in combat.  A radiant would grab a dart or two in one hand and do a multiple lashing.  The fused would probably have to remove the dart before they could really heal so damage to a limb would render them a fairly easy target that you could finish off with you spear.  Alternatively a shot to the torso would be an constant expense to the fused.  They would have to remove it during a fight with a skilled opponent or fall out of the sky.

11 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

Have some sort of a hook attached to a rope. If you can snag a Fused, you get a massive advantage, especially since their only edge is their mobility. If you have them on a leash, you can reel them in and make that advantage void (hehe).

I think that sounds a bit dangerous.  True the fused might not be able to get away but you are basically turning a freeform into a cage match.  A better solution to the problems you identified might be to carry a weighted net that could be lashed. 

1 hour ago, joesleepsalot said:

Desert storm style dune buggies carrying a team of Radiants....edgedancers could slick the skids and windrunners or someone else provides the momentum. 

Kind of like a small fighter craft?

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

A parachute so if the windrunner runs out of stormlight they have a back up so they don't just go splat

Worst case scenario prep is a good idea but I worry that a parachute might be kind of bulky.  Still it should absolutely be given thought.  An alternative might be just an extra sphere with enough stormlight to survive a catastrophic fall.

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Building on the dart idea, maybe serrated knives, or harpoons. That way they stick in draining voidlight and deal more damage when torn out. 

Barbing the dart might also work.

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Wingsuits might result in added maneuverability.

True but they might also be dangerous in close combat.  I wonder if we could find some kind of balance.  Maybe an easily discardable one?

[Gderu]

A parachute does not sound like a very good idea to me. For one, it's too bulky. It also takes up space that could've been used to carry spheres which would negate the problem. A parachute is only ever really useful if you don't have enough spheres to give to every radiant.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Gderu

[+Oltux72]

11 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

A parachute so if the windrunner runs out of stormlight they have a back up so they don't just go splat. Yes they could still get cut out of the air, but it would give other windrunners a chance to form up around him or her, and resupply the person.

I am afraid Windrunners are generally operating below the minimum height for using a parachute. On a low-gravity world that is a bit lower, but they are operating very low. The parachute wouldn't unfold before impact.

[Nathrangking]

Also potentially old school pouches of stones. Lash them one at a time at your target and do damage or even simply distract them while you go in for the kill.

Pouches of dust to blind any flying fused could also be an advantage if you were say wearing goggles of some kind.

[king of nowhere]

on the other hand, when you are flying every bit of weight reduces your manueverability. a few darts with grappling hooks would be a good trade, but a lot of the equipment suggested here is probably too impractical to carry around, or limited to niche uses.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

on the other hand, when you are flying every bit of weight reduces your manueverability. a few darts with grappling hooks would be a good trade, but a lot of the equipment suggested here is probably too impractical to carry around, or limited to niche uses.

Good point.

[ScadrianTank]

Some one-off "shields" to paint with Adhesion for arrow catching, like flares in modern fighting aircraft. Darts seemed like a good idea to me at first, but the Heavenly Ones are too mobile for them to be hit with a single projectile, even a fast-moving one. There is also an issue of accuracy.

Goggles would be preferable to a full-on mask, IMHO. They would limit the field of view of the operator less than a mask, and for situations when more protection is needed, a Radiant could just summon a Shadplate helm.

In general, I believe that the lack of equipment will be dealt with after some time. It's easy for generals to favor supplying regular soldiers first when Radians come with their own weapons and armor.

[Lightspine]

12 hours ago, Karger said:

I think that sounds a bit dangerous.  True the fused might not be able to get away but you are basically turning a freeform into a cage match.  A better solution to the problems you identified might be to carry a weighted net that could be lashed. 

I agree that the grapple could be pretty risky.

A weighted net would be kind of unwieldy, especially if it's heavy enough to drag down on a Fused. The Windrunner would have to lash the weights of the net with them as they fly. Not impossible, just very inconvenient.

Maybe instead of relying on weight, this would be a great place to apply adhesion? I'm pretty sure Szeth was able to put a full lashing and a basic lashing on the same table while he was killing the king of Jah Keved, so it should be possible to make the net sticky as well as lashing it at an enemy. That would basically make the net behave more like a spiderweb, sticking to the Fused whenever it makes contact and probably getting them hopelessly tangled.

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

Maybe instead of relying on weight, this would be a great place to apply adhesion? I'm pretty sure Szeth was able to put a full lashing and a basic lashing on the same table while he was killing the king of Jah Keved, so it should be possible to make the net sticky as well as lashing it at an enemy. That would basically make the net behave more like a spiderweb, sticking to the Fused whenever it makes contact and probably getting them hopelessly tangled.

Very nice.  This would also minimize weight.  A strong wire net would be very nasty if it was both sticky and pulling on you.

[+robardin]

14 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I saw somebody on a different post say that darts probably won't be much more than a nuisance for Fused, since they can heal. So I have an alternative idea: grappling hooks!

Have some sort of a hook attached to a rope. If you can snag a Fused, you get a massive advantage, especially since their only edge is their mobility. If you have them on a leash, you can reel them in and make that advantage void (hehe).

Well on the subject of grappling hooks, can Reverse Lashings be used more effectively?

We've seen Kaladin apply Basic Lashings multiple times on something (including himself) to make it go faster or with greater force for the distance; so could he infuse something with a Reverse Lashing, like he did with the bridge to attract Parshendi arrows towards it, but something loose (like tent tarpaulin) instead of hard like the bridge was; and then a Basic Lashing to aim it at a Fused? How long would the Reverse Lashing have a "sticky" or suction-like property?

55 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

Maybe instead of relying on weight, this would be a great place to apply adhesion? I'm pretty sure Szeth was able to put a full lashing and a basic lashing on the same table while he was killing the king of Jah Keved, so it should be possible to make the net sticky as well as lashing it at an enemy. That would basically make the net behave more like a spiderweb, sticking to the Fused whenever it makes contact and probably getting them hopelessly tangled.

Ooh, I replied before reading further down that your reply to the same post had much the same idea!

Edited August 11, 2020 by robardin

[Karger]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

We've seen Kaladin apply Basic Lashings multiple times on something (including himself) to make it go faster or with greater force for the distance; so could he infuse something with a Reverse Lashing, like he did with the bridge to attract Parshendi arrows towards it, but something loose (like tent tarpaulin) instead of hard like the bridge was; and then a Basic Lashing to aim it at a Fused? How long would the Reverse Lashing have a "sticky" or suction-like property?

So we don't have confirmation but I am pretty sure what the verse lashing does it create a large center of gravity.  It would be expensive(in stormlight) but it could certainly be used to aim a projectile assuming you want to hit center mass on something and don't really care which center mass.  It would be a good application of the net idea as the fused could not doge easily.  Your idea of adding it to a loose line might also work as you could reel the fused in and then drop the connection by taking back the stormlight thus preventing the cage match I was worried about.

[earthexile]

Bridge Four should get themselves a Soulcaster fabrial. Picture flying high over an enemy force, transforming a raincloud into iron, then Lashing it down at six or seven times gravity. 

[Aminar]

16 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I saw somebody on a different post say that darts probably won't be much more than a nuisance for Fused, since they can heal. So I have an alternative idea: grappling hooks!

Have some sort of a hook attached to a rope. If you can snag a Fused, you get a massive advantage, especially since their only edge is their mobility. If you have them on a leash, you can reel them in and make that advantage void (hehe).

Also, this might sound ridiculous but maybe something like a wingsuit? Kaladin describes how changing course by using wind resistance allows for more elegance and precision flying. Exactly what a wingsuit could enhance. Having some sort of flaps to catch the wind might slow you down, but it would also make it easier to turn sharply/control the direction of your flight. In short, it could help them move more like the Fused.

Edit: just noticed another commenter thought of wingsuits first.

I imagine healing around a serrated dart and then moving could get very frustrating and painful and waste a lot of voidlight. So far we haven't seen that kind of creativity from the Radiants, but given Brandon I suspect he's waiting for the right time. 

[Karger]

6 hours ago, earthexile said:

Bridge Four should get themselves a Soulcaster fabrial. Picture flying high over an enemy force, transforming a raincloud into iron, then Lashing it down at six or seven times gravity. 

Impressively nasty.  Any more ideas like that?

 

[Elsecaller_17.5]

How about some freaking armor. I'm not convinced weight woyld be a huge detriment and some chain would go a long ways.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

How about some freaking armor. I'm not convinced weight would be a huge detriment and some chain would go a long ways.

Hm.  Windrunners have tended to rely more on mobility.  Some vambraces would be a good idea.  Perhaps some plate as well...

[Gisaku75]

I think a gambeson or a brigandine would be ideal for defense. The fused have no shardblade so you have windrunner just don't get hurt to make the stormlight sucking spears useless. the loss of mobility would be amply compensated.

Historically, the evolution of warfare leads to the construction of weapons capable of striking from a distance. So bow and arrows or lashing darts would be ideal. There are arrowheads made specifically to be difficult to extract. And as long as an object remains planted in the flesh it is not possible to regenerate. it would be enough to build darts made in the same way.

This way of fighting would be ideal at least in the early stages. It would force the enemy to evasive maneuvers and keep away. Just like it happens in real aerial combat.
For the melee I think it would be better to have a buckler and a short sword or a halberd to try to damage the fused spear. The Romans used the Gladius for this very reason, to break the enemy spear. Even if that of the fused ones is made of metal it is not certain that it cannot be damaged so much making it unusable.

[Aminar]

17 hours ago, earthexile said:

Bridge Four should get themselves a Soulcaster fabrial. Picture flying high over an enemy force, transforming a raincloud into iron, then Lashing it down at six or seven times gravity. 

That wouldn't work. You'd get diffuse steel sand raining down hundreds of miles away blown by the wind. Even with a ton of extra gravity. Depending how the mass parts work in that equation it's likely you'd be getting very little steel relative to area out of the idea as well. A cubic Kilometer of cloud weighs 1around 1.1 million lbs. You'd get about 63 cubic meters of steel out of that spread over a kilometer. It'd be a damnation wispy diffuse cloud getting buffeted around by the wind and not going anywhere near where they want it. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Aminar

[Karger]

4 hours ago, Aminar said:

That wouldn't work. You'd get diffuse steel sand raining down hundreds of miles away blown by the wind. Even with a ton of extra gravity. Depending how the mass parts work in that equation it's likely you'd be getting very little steel relative to area out of the idea as well. A cubic Kilometer of cloud weighs 1around 1.1 million lbs. You'd get about 63 cubic meters of steel out of that spread over a kilometer. It'd be a damnation wispy diffuse cloud getting buffeted around by the wind and not going anywhere near where they want it. 

Soulcasting does not preserve mass it preserves shape.

[Aminar]

5 hours ago, Karger said:

Soulcasting does not preserve mass it preserves shape.

We've seen things diffuse out when changed from matter into smoke. It makes sense they can diffuse in. That doesn't change the fact iron sand is very not dangerous, even at 7 g's with dispersal in clouds. You'd be converting individual water molecules into iron... Uh... Somethings. Changing a vapor into a solid just doesn't work. We haven't seen a good example of how that works when you're literally changing diffuse atoms spread over a wide space into something. I imagine it would be wildly hard to describe though. Point being, it doesn't become a square kilometer of solid iron. Itt's at best itty bitty dust molecules coming down with the force of next to nothing by 7 gs by all the wind chucking it miles away because its mass is negligable. 

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Aminar said:

We've seen things diffuse out when changed from matter into smoke. It makes sense they can diffuse in. That doesn't change the fact iron sand is very not dangerous, even at 7 g's with dispersal in clouds. You'd be converting individual water molecules into iron... Uh... Somethings. Changing a vapor into a solid just doesn't work. We haven't seen a good example of how that works when you're literally changing diffuse atoms spread over a wide space into something. I imagine it would be wildly hard to describe though. Point being, it doesn't become a square kilometer of solid iron. Itt's at best itty bitty dust molecules coming down with the force of next to nothing by 7 gs by all the wind chucking it miles away because its mass is negligable. 

You could still make iron blocks rain down by soulcasting air.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Karger