Runner-Fu? The use of arcane powers during unarmed combat

[+Oltux72]

Is it just me or did Brandon miss an epic opportunity to go all gory and grimdark on us? What happens to a Fused if you lash an appendage of his to your body with Adhesion and then lash his body away from you with quite some lashings and you lash your body in the other direction?

Oh well, we also had Dalinar in Oathbringer use Adhesion to irreguarly end sparring. So which orders can use their Surges in hand-to-hand combat but require special techniques? Going hand-to-hand with a Dustbringer or Skybreaker looks like a painful form of suicide to me. But Adhesion and Abrasion are candidates IMHO. What else, Tension? Turn your enemies clothing rigid while you bash in his head?

[Honorless]

I think Gravitation affects an object as a whole, not as a part

(Mistborn spoilers)

Spoiler

like Steelpushing & Ironpulling

 

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

I think Gravitation affects an object as a whole, not as a part

(Mistborn spoilers)

  Hide contents

like Steelpushing & Ironpulling

 

Probably, but he would be using Adhesion and Gravitation. If you are keeping together two objects with Adhesion then they are by definition two objects.

[theTruthshaper]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

I think Gravitation affects an object as a whole, not as a part

(Mistborn spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

like Steelpushing & Ironpulling

 

Except for:

Spoiler

You can push/pull on part of an object

 

[Honorless]

On 8/10/2020 at 9:41 PM, The_Truthwatcher said:

Except for:

  Hide contents

You can push/pull on part of an object

 

Spoiler

You can target non centre mass with practice, not quite the same thing

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Honorless
missing comma, again *sigh* sorry ppl, it's easy to miss these things on mobile

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

Except for:

  Hide contents

You can push/pull on part of an object

 

You don't have two. Windrunners have two Surges. You can use Adhesion on any part of a foe touching something and then lash the foe with Gravitation. If I glue your foot to the floor and then lash you upwards tenfold, the effect on your ankle, knee and hip won't be pleasant.

I can also attch you to a moving object, suc as myself.

[GudThymes]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

You don't have two. Windrunners have two Surges. You can use Adhesion on any part of a foe touching something and then lash the foe with Gravitation. If I glue your foot to the floor and then lash you upwards tenfold, the effect on your ankle, knee and hip won't be pleasant.

I can also attch you to a moving object, suc as myself.

I love the visual for this. Like a limb just being torn apart from the inside out due to internal stress. I know that Brandon has said that the reason why Shardblades don't cut flesh (initially) is because the original prologue written that way was just too gory. I don't see why your theory wouldn't work, but I imagine that Brandon won't show us it on screen. At best I'd hope for a nod to it having been experimented with during the year gap.

Something like Teft giving a lesson on the surges and a squire brings it up as a potential tactic and Teft acknowledges it's efficacy but says that the end results don't justify the means and that they should stick to something more honorable like using a "traditional" weapon.

 

Imagine Kal's threat if it were this, in chapter 7/8 where he says he will lash the Singer to the sky and he will have time to contemplate life or whatever on the way down. "I'll stick your bottom half to the ground and lash you to the sky, you can contemplate your choices while you slowly feel your stomach rip itself apart at the seams"...  That's some dark stuff.

Edited August 10, 2020 by GudThymes

[Lightspine]

Nobody on Roshar seems to know this is possible, but I'll just leave this WoB here:

Quote

ElephantEarwax

Could Kaladin rip limbs from people using Lashings?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. This is theoretically possible.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Perhaps they'll figure it out eventually. Not exactly Kaladin's style though...

[dgreene196]

16 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Is it just me or did Brandon miss an epic opportunity to go all gory and grimdark on us? What happens to a Fused if you lash an appendage of his to your body with Adhesion and then lash his body away from you with quite some lashings and you lash your body in the other direction?

Oh well, we also had Dalinar in Oathbringer use Adhesion to irreguarly end sparring. So which orders can use their Surges in hand-to-hand combat but require special techniques? Going hand-to-hand with a Dustbringer or Skybreaker looks like a painful form of suicide to me. But Adhesion and Abrasion are candidates IMHO. What else, Tension? Turn your enemies clothing rigid while you bash in his head?

I believe Brandon has said in the past that, in an early draft of TWoK Prologue, Shardblades didn’t pass through individuals and burn out their eyes, but cut normally.  That draft was altogether gorier than he wanted.  And it would have been really, really bloody.

[Rorzikel]

The Forumlurker (paraphrased)

Can a Windrunner use a Basic Lashing on a specific body part?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, but it works the same way a Steelpusher could push on a specific part of metal. Usually, you'd just affect the whole body, because of its Identity and cosmere magic not working as well on parts of something that considers itself a unit. When you're very skilled, you can isolate a hand, like Kelsier could push on specific sections of metal.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

2 hours ago, dgreene196 said:

I believe Brandon has said in the past that, in an early draft of TWoK Prologue, Shardblades didn’t pass through individuals and burn out their eyes, but cut normally.  That draft was altogether gorier than he wanted.  And it would have been really, really bloody.

I kinda like the idea of the gorier version tbh. Makes the whole "cuts on all three realms" a little more accurate. Could still have the eyes burn out as well.

[+robardin]

On 8/11/2020 at 0:11 AM, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

The Forumlurker (paraphrased)

Can a Windrunner use a Basic Lashing on a specific body part?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, but it works the same way a Steelpusher could push on a specific part of metal. Usually, you'd just affect the whole body, because of its Identity and cosmere magic not working as well on parts of something that considers itself a unit. When you're very skilled, you can isolate a hand, like Kelsier could push on specific sections of metal.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

In addition to a Windrunner having to practice a lot (which sounds awful) to Lash specific parts of a living being in opposite directions, it'd be even harder to try to do that in combat because you'd have to touch your opponent at least twice to be able to do it, and most likely sequentially.

As you Lashed (say) a hand to go in one direction, your opponent would start feeling that effect and probably be more keen on keeping you away (especially if this became a known technique), perhaps even fleeing until the effect wore off. Unless you conceived of a maneuver where you simultaneously Lashed to the left with your left hand and to the right with your right hand... But now that exposes you completely to your opponent as you do so.

It feels like something that'd be less of a hand-to-hand combat strategy for a Windrunner, and more of some kind of spectacular means of execution of someone who couldn't avoid it (totally not a Windrunner's metier).

Oh, and as to the OP's idea of a Windrunner doing this in combat against a Fused, that'd be even harder to do because they'd be Invested with Voidlight, and it would require a lot of Stormlight to Lash them, right? (Just like one can't Lash Shardplate - it's probably not "can't do it at all" so much as "would require stupid levels of effort")

Edited August 13, 2020 by robardin

[+Oltux72]

On 13/08/2020 at 5:10 PM, robardin said:

In addition to a Windrunner having to practice a lot (which sounds awful) to Lash specific parts of a living being in opposite directions, it'd be even harder to try to do that in combat because you'd have to touch your opponent at least twice to be able to do it, and most likely sequentially.

No, you do not lash parts in different directions. You apply a Basic Lashing and a Full Lashing. Not the same Surge twice and differently, but two different Surges, Gravitation and Adhesion..

[Kramerfarve]

If a windrunner/skybreaker got skilled enough, gravitation could become a form of severing. Think windrunner/skybreaker grabs your arm and thinks to lash your lower arm to the left and upper arm to the right, with the same hand. Just because they haven't thought to do/practice such a manouver before, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Kramerfarve

[Michael Portz]

On 10.8.2020 at 11:11 AM, Oltux72 said:

Is it just me or did Brandon miss an epic opportunity to go all gory and grimdark on us? What happens to a Fused if you lash an appendage of his to your body with Adhesion and then lash his body away from you with quite some lashings and you lash your body in the other direction?

Upvote for the Grimdark reference ... :-D