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Simplest Explanation for Fused Flight


Lightspine

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I've seen some considerable confusion surrounding the new information we have about the Heavenly ones: that they don't consume Voidlight during flight, but do use it to heal. Here's a couple of the comments about it in the Chapter 4&5 Discussion board:

However, I think there's a much less convoluted explanation that draws on mechanics we've already seen. I already posted a short comment about this on the Chapters thread, but there's some more to break down so I'm deciding to make this a whole post.

Basically, we know that Kaladin has the ability to retrieve stormlight from his lashings, but he doesn't seem to have tried this on lashings on himself. We've also heard that Voidbringers can hold stormlight perfectly (see edit note). This provides a very simple explanation: that when the Fused lash themselves, the lashing doesn't "leak" voidlight. When they change direction in flight, they can retrieve this voidlight and lash themselves in a different direction. They lose voidlight if they lash others unless they retrieve that voidlight, and also because other objects tend to leak.

This might also explain how Leshwi outmaneuvers Kaladin, despite having a lower top speed. Kaladin just keeps stacking his lashings, which means that he doesn't stop accelerating in a direction he's lashed himself until that lashing runs out, even if he applies another lashing in a new direction. He's like a charging bull. Leshwi is removing her prior lashing with each change in direction, allowing her to make sharper turns.

In the second comment I linked, @vegvisr brings up the fact that there must be a difference between the investure use of different surges. I agree.

I'm dividing Surgebinding into two classes of powers: those which consume stormlight/voidlight immediately with immediate effects, and those which infuse light to apply a lasting effect. Healing/Progression, Elsecalling, and Soulcasting consume light while being used. This is why the teleporting Fused runs out of voidlight, and why the Heavenly Ones lose voidlight when they heal themselves. Illumination, Gravitation, Adhesion, and (probably) Abrasion infuse objects with investure and and the duration of the effect depends on how long the object can remain infused. Most objects leak stormlight, limiting the duration of the second type of surge, with the only exceptions being perfect gemstones and the Fused.

Fused which use the first kind of surge are limited by their voidlight, since they lose some every time they use their power. Those of the second are not, since they don't leak voidlight and their lashings/illusions/slipperiness remain indefinitely, and they can recall this voidlight to be used differently.

I think the reason why nobody suggested this explanation earlier is because Gravitation lashings feel like something which should be draining investure. Isn't investure consumed in order to continuously accelerate an object? It feels a bit unintuitive, but I'm pretty sure that the textual evidence points towards Gravitation being in the second class of surges. In short, I think this class of surges doesn't work by "powering" anything, but rather by changing the properties of an object. As long as the object is imbued with investure, its behavior is altered or "tricked." When something is lashed sideways, it only fall sideways—but no longer down toward the planet. The stormlight or voidlight isn't providing the acceleration here, but rather somehow tricking the object into thinking that a different direction is "down" and, in the case of multiple/partial lashings, changing the strength of the gravitational force.

As for Adhesion, the object is being tricked so that it behaves as if a perfect vacuum is formed when it touches another object. Or something like that. It's a little unclear. Abrasion is tricking the object into behaving as if it is smooth.

Illumination might be a bit different; it's not exactly applied to an object. Shallan describes it as if her illusions are made out of the stormlight. We also know that a perfectly cut gem will glow forever, as we see with the King's Drop. Providing light doesn't consume stormlight at all. Shallan might be merely shaping the stormlight into different colors and shapes, and also altering its brightness somehow.

Anyway, even though I'm more confident in this explanation than I have been about any other theory I've ever made, I know there's still plenty of room for controversy. Please roast me to Braize if you think I'm getting stuff wrong.

Edit: due to a WoB I found, just wanted to say Szeth's belief that voidbringers can hold stormlight perfectly is actually incorrect. They merely hold it longer than a human can. However, the same WoB states that different sources of investure will stick to objects differently (like Breaths v.s. stormlight), so it doesn't rule out the possibility that the Fused can hold voidlight perfectly.
WoB spoilered for length:

Spoiler

Argent

Awakening and Surgebinding, Stormlight and Breath seem really similar in some aspects--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--except Breaths seem to stick to things better--

Brandon Sanderson

They do.

Argent

--than Stormlight. So when you are holding the Breath it doesn't expire when you put it in something it doesn't go away. Can you tell me something about why that's happening?

Brandon Sanderson

Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it's coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that's part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It's like evaporation, does that make sense?

Argent

Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it has to get out, it has to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right?

Argent

And when you lash things it's temporary--

Brandon Sanderson

Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can't. Like it is just not the way that it works.

Argent

Can they just hold it better?

Brandon Sanderson

They can hold it better. It's not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but--

Argent

Like the black sphere for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Well we are not going to... The black sphere is something different. You guys have guessed what the black sphere is, right?

Argent

Well we have some ideas. I support that it holds an Unmade. Am I wrong?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm not going to answer that.

Argent

But you said--

Brandon Sanderson

I'm just curious what the theories are. Book 3 the black sphere is-- Everyone who reads the books will know what the black sphere is by the end of Book 3.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

 

Edited by Lightspine
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I think Investiture isn't constantly consumed, it's a one-time cost for a lashing and it lasts a certain amount of time based on how much stormlight they pour into it and how many lashings they use.  If it was constantly consumed then radiants wouldn't be able to make others fly because letting go would stop 'feeding' their lashings.

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I think voidbindings are structured a certain way IE do more with less.  Surgebindings developed naturally and was probably less structured so when you get enough power together you can do some kind of crazy things.  For the shenayim(hope we get a spelling soon) their surge of gravitation was probably structured to allow them to fly so they can do that basically forever on very limited voidlight.  Lashing other things is much harder for them because that is not what that void surge was designed to do.

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44 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think voidbindings are structured a certain way IE do more with less.  Surgebindings developed naturally and was probably less structured so when you get enough power together you can do some kind of crazy things.  For the shenayim(hope we get a spelling soon) their surge of gravitation was probably structured to allow them to fly so they can do that basically forever on very limited voidlight.  Lashing other things is much harder for them because that is not what that void surge was designed to do.

I don't know why it's necessary to say that lashing other things is harder when it could simply be that they're not retrieving that voidlight.

However, I think I actually agree that their surge of gravitation could be structured a bit differently. I was considering suggesting that the Heavenly Ones don't actually need to recall their voidlight in order to change their lashings. Basically, they get to skip the step I mentioned of cancelling their lashing and instead can directly change the direction of their existing lashing. This allows them to change direction with minimal lag time. I decided not to propose it because 1). it wasn't strictly necessary to the theory and 2). I'm trying to make as few assumptions as possible and follow rules we already know.

I'm not against the idea that Voidbringer surges aren't the exact same as Radiant surges, but I do think that they should have some fundamental similarities. Even if you disagree with the mechanics I described, I hope you can agree with me that the two classes of surges I described seem to also divide the efficiency with which the Fused can use them.

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1 minute ago, Lightspine said:

I don't know why it's necessary to say that lashing other things is harder when it could simply be that they're not retrieving that voidlight.

Even if they are retrieving the voidlight they are using they are still expending investiture when they fly.  They would basically get less leakage that way or a higher degree of efficiency but they would still be using power that has to be replenished somehow.  You are perhaps correct that they have a special cheat like this that does not work when they lash something else and since they have a lower stormlight allowance they have to make it count.

I do think there is a fundamental difference between voidbindings and surgebindings however.

5 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I'm not against the idea that Voidbringer surges aren't the exact same as Radiant surges, but I do think that they should have some fundamental similarities. Even if you disagree with the mechanics I described, I hope you can agree with me that the two classes of surges I described seem to also divide the efficiency with which the Fused can use them.

I do.

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2 hours ago, Lightspine said:

However, I think there's a much less convoluted explanation that draws on mechanics we've already seen. I already posted a short comment about this on the Chapters thread, but there's some more to break down so I'm deciding to make this a whole post. . . 

I don't have anything to add here, I just wanted to say this is a great write up of a theory I have not heard before. I think that the real explanation is going to end up being very close to this idea. Kudos. 

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15 minutes ago, Karger said:

Even if they are retrieving the voidlight they are using they are still expending investiture when they fly. 

I think we pretty much agree on everything except this one point. In my interpretation, Lashings don't fade away because the stormlight is being consumed to power the acceleration, but purely because the object is leaking the stormlight. Unless I'm misinterpreting you, you believe that the object loses stormlight for both of these reasons. I admit your idea is a lot more intuitive, but for me it lacked explanatory power. I spent a while hunting for a WoB about this but found nothing pointing either way. 
You might find my interpretation of how the Fused work similar to how Breaths work, since motion is being powered without investure loss, and I did manage to find a WoB adjacent to that:

Quote

Argent

Awakening and Surgebinding, Stormlight and Breath seem really similar in some aspects--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--except Breaths seem to stick to things better--

Brandon Sanderson

They do.

Argent

--than Stormlight. So when you are holding the Breath it doesn't expire when you put it in something it doesn't go away. Can you tell me something about why that's happening?

Brandon Sanderson

Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it's coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that's part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It's like evaporation, does that make sense?

Argent

Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it has to get out, it has to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right?

Argent

And when you lash things it's temporary--

Brandon Sanderson

Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can't. Like it is just not the way that it works.

Argent

Can they just hold it better?

Brandon Sanderson

They can hold it better. It's not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but--

Argent

Like the black sphere for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Well we are not going to... The black sphere is something different. You guys have guessed what the black sphere is, right?

Argent

Well we have some ideas. I support that it holds an Unmade. Am I wrong?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm not going to answer that.

Argent

But you said--

Brandon Sanderson

I'm just curious what the theories are. Book 3 the black sphere is-- Everyone who reads the books will know what the black sphere is by the end of Book 3.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

I don't think this has much to say about the point we're arguing over. However, it does modify my theory about the Fused a little since my reference to their holding stormlight perfectly turns out to be untrue. That said, it doesn't kill my idea because it also suggests that different types of investure stick differently. It's completely possible for voidlight to not leak at all from the Fused, even if stormlight would. Maybe this is one of the "fundamental differences" between Voidbinding and Surgebinding.

Wow, was writing this before the last few comments, but looks like this WoB might help answer the question about Venli.

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The idea has already been shared that Voidbinding accesses the surge differently but I would like to share a supporting WoB I saw. I have bolded the relevant part.

Quote

Questioner

It was mentioned that there are 16 gods in your Cosmere.

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on your definition of god.

Questioner

Shards. Are the ten orders of the Knight Radiants related to specific gods? Because Honor, child of Honor-Kaladin

Brandon Sanderson

So all the magic on Roshar, all the surgebinding on Roshar, is going to have its roots in Honor and Cultivation. Um... There is some Odium influence too, but that’s mostly voidbinding, which is the map in the back of the first book.

Questioner

I was wondering how much-

Brandon Sanderson

But, but even the powers, it’s, it’s really this sort of thing. What’s going in Stormlight is that people are accessing fundamental forces of creation and laws of the universe. They’re accessing them through the filter of Cultivation and Honor. So, that’s not to say, on another world you couldn’t have someone influence gravity. Honor doesn’t belong to gravity. But bonds, and how to deal with bonds, and things like this, is an Honor thing. So the way Honor accesses gravity is, you make a bond between yourself and either a thing or a direction or things like that and you go. So it’s filtered through Honor’s visual, and some of the magics lean more Honor and some them lean more Cultivation, as you can obviously see, in the way that they take place.

Questioner

The question kind of rooted because, Wyndle in the short story is always saying that he’s a cultivationspren, he doesn’t like [...]. I kind of got the idea that each order had a different Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

That is a good thing to think, but that is not how it is. Some of them self-identify more in certain ways. Syl is an honorspren, that’s what they call a honorspren, they self-identify as the closest to Honor. Is that true? Well, I don’t know. For instance, you might talk to different spren, who are like, no, highspren are like “We’re the ones most like Honor. We are the ones that keep oaths the best. Those honorspren will let their people break their oaths if they think it’s for a good cause. That’s not Honor-like.” There would be disagreement.

Questioner

Are you saying that the spren’s view of themself influences how they work?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah, and humans’ view of them because spren are pieces of Investiture who have gained sapience, or sentience for the smaller spren, through human perception of those forces. For instance, whether or not Kaladin is keeping an oath is up to what Syl and Kaladin think is keeping that oath. It is not related to capital-T Truth, what is actually keeping the oath. Two windrunners can disagree on whether an oath has been kept or not.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017)

This makes it look like to me that the fused probably aren't 'lashing' themselves in different directions at all. It could be they are just floating and flying in a more conventional way rather than 'falling in different directions'. This could explain why Surgebinders can accelerate to much faster speeds and why Fused maneuver better. Kaladin told Syl that she could have caught up to Leshwi, this could suggest that what Leshwi is doing may be closer to what Syl does (she just floats and doesn't do lashings since she is a spren). A not very good tinfoil theory could be that rather than bind themselves to directions, they use the 'Void' to negate or suppress their connection to the planet or the surge itself to float, although that won't explain how they move.

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39 minutes ago, lol_king said:

The idea has already been shared that Voidbinding accesses the surge differently but I would like to share a supporting WoB I saw. I have bolded the relevant part.

This makes it look like to me that the fused probably aren't 'lashing' themselves in different directions at all. It could be they are just floating and flying in a more conventional way rather than 'falling in different directions'. This could explain why Surgebinders can accelerate to much faster speeds and why Fused maneuver better. Kaladin told Syl that she could have caught up to Leshwi, this could suggest that what Leshwi is doing may be closer to what Syl does (she just floats and doesn't do lashings since she is a spren). A not very good tinfoil theory could be that rather than bind themselves to directions, they use the 'Void' to negate or suppress their connection to the planet or the surge itself to float, although that won't explain how they move.

I agree it's probably pushing away from something as if they hate it or something to do with their Passion. 

Regardless they hold their light better than surgebinders and can "lash" or whatever their equivalent is less than KR.  https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9412

I don't see the comment in here, but somewhere on these forums it was suggested that they hold their light better because they hold it in the Singer gemheart within the body while KR hold it in their body. Gemhearts leak investiture slower than flesh and bone. 

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14 hours ago, Kuram said:

I think Investiture isn't constantly consumed, it's a one-time cost for a lashing and it lasts a certain amount of time based on how much stormlight they pour into it and how many lashings they use.  If it was constantly consumed then radiants wouldn't be able to make others fly because letting go would stop 'feeding' their lashings.

But it does. That is exactly what happens when Szeth lashes a rock. It runs out of Stormlight and crashes down eventually. This merely tells us that objects have a certain capacity to hold Stormlight.

13 hours ago, Karger said:

I do think there is a fundamental difference between voidbindings and surgebindings however.

But do they Voidbind? Or are they just using Voidlight to fuel Surgebinding? They do have Illumination. Yet Renarin does not, in exchange for something else. That suggests that Surges and "Voids" are really different.

13 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I don't think this has much to say about the point we're arguing over. However, it does modify my theory about the Fused a little since my reference to their holding stormlight perfectly turns out to be untrue. That said, it doesn't kill my idea because it also suggests that different types of investure stick differently. It's completely possible for voidlight to not leak at all from the Fused, even if stormlight would. Maybe this is one of the "fundamental differences" between Voidbinding and Surgebinding.

The problem is that they must have a source of Voidlight. That teleporting Fused charged his spheres somehow. And it cannot be the Everstorm for the Fused are older. For all we now they are just on Odium's tap and get a certain feed that is enough to constantly fly, but if they want more, they have to land and fill spheres.

2 hours ago, lol_king said:

This makes it look like to me that the fused probably aren't 'lashing' themselves in different directions at all. It could be they are just floating and flying in a more conventional way rather than 'falling in different directions'. This could explain why Surgebinders can accelerate to much faster speeds and why Fused maneuver better.

Or that just means that Stormlight is a more energetic fuel at the cost of being hard to retain.

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51 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

But do they Voidbind? Or are they just using Voidlight to fuel Surgebinding? They do have Illumination. Yet Renarin does not, in exchange for something else. That suggests that Surges and "Voids" are really different.

I see Renarin's actions as a void surge of illumination which would imply that they are fueling normal surgebindings with voidlight.  However we know from Mistborn that this can have very different effects.

54 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

The problem is that they must have a source of Voidlight. That teleporting Fused charged his spheres somehow. And it cannot be the Everstorm for the Fused are older. For all we now they are just on Odium's tap and get a certain feed that is enough to constantly fly, but if they want more, they have to land and fill spheres.

I personally think their connection constantly fuels them with voidlight that they can put into spheres once they are "full" which is why they only run out during combat when they loose light faster then they can replenish it.

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29 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Or that just means that Stormlight is a more energetic fuel at the cost of being hard to retain.

Well according to this WoB they cannot afford to this WoB they accelerate slower because they're expending less energy.

Quote

Oversleep

Why do Fused accelerate slower than the Surgebinders?

Brandon Sanderson

Fused accelerate [slower than] Surgebinder's because they're expending less energy.

Oversleep

It doesn't have to do with the Braize gravity?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it does not have to do with Braize's gravity, that's a good question. That's actually a really clever way to ask.

Oversleep

Yeah, cause I thought the planet was smaller so.

Brandon Sanderson

Clever, very clever but no, it is not to do with that. You'll find other explanations but they can expend less energy, they can afford to spend less energy. They can only afford to expend a little bit of energy so that's the way to say it.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

So I guess I wasn't right in that aspect. But the WoB @Child of Hodor shared says they don't have access to things like lashing themselves multiple times in one direction, and unless I'm misremembering, lashing themselves multiple times is exactly how Surgebinders get their acceleration and higher top speed. Maybe it means that Fused have limited energy so they can use limited number of lashings but it doesn't read like that to me, Surgebinders use lashings to maneuver too and fused do that pretty well. It seems like they have a hard cap on speed otherwise I imagine at least one of them would try a suicide run with full speed at the cost of all the Voidlight since they can Reincarnate anyways. Also I haven't seen Brandon use Lashing along with fused and in the chapter it is mentioned in weird way.

Quote
They had trained for millennia with their powers, and they could fly forever without running out of Voidlight. They only drained it to heal, and—he’d heard—to perform the occasional rare Lashing.

Here occasional and rare are used together even though they mean basically the same thing, so maybe this is talking about another type of lashing called 'Rare lashing', like a 'full lashing' or 'reverse lashing'. And Kaladin himself hasn't seen it and just heard about it even though he has fought many. So It could something different they could do. Basically what I'm trying to say is they don't use the magic in the same way as the Surgebinders.

 

21 minutes ago, Karger said:

I personally think their connection constantly fuels them with voidlight that they can put into spheres once they are "full" which is why they only run out during combat when they loose light faster then they can replenish it.

That kind of seems unlimited access but according to WoB they don't have that. Although I do like this theory because it would fit with other things we see

Quote

Questioner

Is the reason that the Fused have access to unlimited voidlight is because Odium's alive, and the Radiants have that access that limited access to Stormlight because Honor is dead?

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly... They do not have access to unlimited voidlight, how about that.

Skyward San Diego signing (Nov. 7, 2018)

 

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9 minutes ago, lol_king said:

That kind of seems unlimited access but according to WoB they don't have that. Although I do like this theory because it would fit with other things we see

Brandon might be playing word games.  My version would not imply unlimited voidlight just a constantly replenishing source of it.

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20 hours ago, Lightspine said:

Basically, we know that Kaladin has the ability to retrieve stormlight from his lashings, but he doesn't seem to have tried this on lashings on himself. We've also heard that Voidbringers can hold stormlight perfectly (see edit note). This provides a very simple explanation: that when the Fused lash themselves, the lashing doesn't "leak" voidlight. When they change direction in flight, they can retrieve this voidlight and lash themselves in a different direction. They lose voidlight if they lash others unless they retrieve that voidlight, and also because other objects tend to leak.

And @lol_king's quote from the chapter

Quote

They had trained for millennia with their powers, and they could fly forever without running out of Voidlight. They only drained it to heal, and—he’d heard—to perform the occasional rare Lashing.

I think the simplest explanation for the difference in application of the surge of gravitation between a human radiant and a Fused Great One is the medium they are lashing. When a human body or an object is lashed it visibly leaks stormlight because they are imperfect receptacles, but when a flying Fuzed lashes themselves with the surge of gravitation they have a faint dark violet nimbus around them, but never are described as leaking. The simplest explanation is that the Fuzed are using their evolutionary advantage to lash something that they all have that has the advantage of near complete containment of voidlight, namely their gemhearts. Thus if a gemheart were lashed and a different Lashing was needed, the first lashing could be withdrawn with almost no loss of voidlight. The limit to the number of successive lashings could have to do with limiting mechanical strain on their gemhearts, and secondarily conserving voidlight by not having to expend voidlight to heal damage to their gemhearts from multiple lashings.

Lashing an external object (like the spear Kaladin lashed) would be a rare occurrence because they would lose some of their voidlight, which they probably like to keep in reserve for healing.

I think a more speculative proof of this is the way in which the ostensibly teleporting Fuzed moves around. I think the red light that is seen might in fact be the Fuzed's gemheart, both the container for the voidlight necessary for spiritual regrowth to grow a new body and the object that the surge of teleportation is being applied to.

 

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Typos, always typos
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8 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

And @lol_king's quote from the chapter

I think the simplest explanation for the difference in application of the surge of gravitation between a human radiant and a Fused Great One is the medium they are lashing. When a human body or an object is lashed it visibly leaks stormlight because they are imperfect receptacles, but when a flying Fuzed lashes themselves with the surge of gravitation they have a faint dark violet nimbus around them, but never are described as leaking. The simplest explanation is that the Fuzed are using their evolutionary advantage to lash something that they all have that has the advantage of near complete containment of voidlight, namely their gemhearts. Thus if a gemheart were lashed and a different Lashing was needed, the first lashing could be withdrawn with almost no loss of voidlight. The limit to the number of successive lashings could have to do with limiting mechanical strain on their gemhearts, and secondarily conserving voidlight by not having to expend voidlight to heal damage to their gemhearts from multiple lashings.

Lashing an external object (like the spear Kaladin lashed) would be a rare occurrence because they would lose some of their voidlight, which they probably like to keep in reserve for healing.

I think a more speculative proof of this is the way in which the ostensibly teleporting Fuzed moves around. I think the red light that is seen might in fact be the Fuzed's gemheart, both the container for the voidlight necessary for spiritual regrowth to grow a new body and the object that the surge of teleportation is being applied to.

 

I see you're agreeing with most of my theory! I like your thoughts on how the gemhearts contribute. I didn't mention it in the original post, but my thoughts on why the Heavenly Ones have a "speed limit" is just because they don't have enough voidlight with them for "multiple lashings" (or the voidbinding equivalent), but I'd never considered gemheart strain. The only times we've seen gems broken is by excessive Soulcasting, and I'm not quite sure how that works.

Your thoughts on external lashings are exactly the same as mine.

Not exactly sure how this lines up with the teleporting Fused. I had a post about it last week (sort of looks like I'm a bit Fused-obsessed doesn't it? :P) but I'm not especially confident about the theory I proposed there. However, I agree with you that the healing and Transportation should both require immediate voidlight expenditure (as part of the first class of powers I wrote in the post).

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9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That teleporting Fused charged his spheres somehow

The teleporting fused did not have spheres.  He had to run off to his group (who were likely carrying spheres charged with voidlight) to recharge because he cannot carry anything with him when he teleports (that's why his hair is wrapped around him Bayoneta-style for clothing, and he uses a spike of his arm to stab Kaladin).

They're otherwise just like radiants, they need their light from the (ever)storm, and they can store it in gems.

Edited by Kuram
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26 minutes ago, Kuram said:

The teleporting fused did not have spheres.  He had to run off to his group (who were likely carrying spheres charged with voidlight) to recharge because he cannot carry anything with him when he teleports (that's why his hair is wrapped around him Bayoneta-style for clothing, and he uses a spike of his arm to stab Kaladin).

I think the point is that the spheres that particular fused had(and left in custody of his group) had to get charged somehow.

27 minutes ago, Kuram said:

They're otherwise just like radiants, they need their light from the (ever)storm, and they can store it in gems.

The everstorm is new but the fused got voidlight in prior desolations.  Also Kaladin left spheres out during that storm and received no voidlight.

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32 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think the point is that the spheres that particular fused had(and left in custody of his group) had to get charged somehow.

The everstorm is new but the fused got voidlight in prior desolations.  Also Kaladin left spheres out during that storm and received no voidlight.

Exactly. The Fused are doing things that use up Voidlight (healing, transporting, lashing we have seen). Hence they must have a source of Voidlight. It cannot be the Everstorm, because it is too new. Now we have two possibilities

A:

  • the Fused are supplied with a flow of Voidlight from Odium
    (Scadrial)
    Spoiler

    basically like Preservation/Harmony supply Investiture only that the Fused itself is the key, no needed

     

  • they are very efficient at flying

B:

  • The Fused use an unknown mechanism to power some of their Surges for some uses (they can lash, but do so rarely)
  • They are getting Voidlight from an unknown source

 

Now, a constant supply need not mean an unlimited supply. I have a constant supply of electrical power at home. But it is not unlimited. If I use too much at a time fuses will trigger or wires would melt and I have to pay for usage. The way the Fused are behaving suggests that they are constrained by flow limits, not budget. Hence they keep flying. They can afford it.

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24 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

The way the Fused are behaving suggests that they are constrained by flow limits, not budget. Hence they keep flying. They can afford it.

That was my conclusion as well.  I can afford to keep the lights on in my home.  This does not mean that if I run too many electrical appliances at the same time it won't cause a problem.

It also kind of reminds me of scadrial spoilers.

Spoiler

Kelseir manifesting objects using the power of the well once he became a CS

 

Edited by Karger
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I really like yall's comparison to electrical power. Makes sense with so many fused running around. I wonder if the Heralds had a similar limitation when Honor was alive. Maybe less of a limitation since there were only 10 of them.

Could the fused be flying using the same mechanics as sky eels and great shells? If they needed stormlight wouldn't the great shells run out during the weeping and get crushed by their own weight? My thought is the fused aren't using lashings to fly but they can use them if they want, like when they lash other people.

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