Ialais Spy

[Toaster Retribution]

Apparently there is a sneaky spy who tells Ialai what Dalinar is up to. Who do we think this is? I have made a poll (I love polls)! I added characters who I know are close to Dalinar, but who could presumably be the spy (so I didnt do Lift/Szeth/Kaladin/Adolin/etc). Some of my alternatives are extra interesting to me:

*Taravangian/The Diagram - Mr T is currently employed by Odium, but Odium might love Ialai as an independent distraction for Dalinar. Thus, he has Taravangian use one of his agents to give Ialai information that she can use against Dalinar, thus shattering the war effort of the KR.

*Sebarial - Sebarial has always felt shady to me. I personally have a crackpot that he is a high-up Ghostblood, but I suppose that he could be a Son of Honor as well. 

*Kmakl - This is somewhat crackpot-y, but he did recently get a scene with Navani. Was that so that people will remember him before his treason is revealed? We know that Gavilar hung out with several important figures (most notably Taravangian). Kmakl could reasonably have been a member of his inner circle. And he has managed to make sure that Dalinar and Navani trusts him, and gives him information.

*Rushu - Rushu is an ardent, and Navanis aide. She has been present since book one, and it wouldnt surprise me if Gavilar and the Sons wanted an agent close to the queen.

*Hatham - The guy did involve ardents in his politicking. Who else loves ardents? The Sons of Honor. 

*Ruthar - Ruthar was a loyal ally to Sadeas during WoR, and, unlike Aladar, never seemed to side-switch wholeheartedly. He is presumably involved with Dalinars war efforts though, so he would be privy to information.

Who gets your vote?

[+Child of Hodor]

My first thought when the spy was mentioned was a scribe close to Navani and Rushu is the closest. 
 

I hope it’s not Rushu. 

Taravangian isn’t exactly “close” to Dalinar anymore. I’m sure he is spying, but I wouldn’t smugly refer to my spy as “close” like they did if it were Taravangian or his friends.

[I Am A Fish]

I honestly have no idea.

Personally I'd say Teshav, or Rushu, they seem to be the type of characters that Sanderson would set up for something like this.

[Requiem17]

I didn't think of Ruthar, but it would make sense for him to stay loyal to Ialai. 

Ultimately replacing Ruthar and Ialai and getting two more loyal people in their places would deal with some of that lingering drama, and close that plotline too. 

[Lightspine]

I'm pretty sure they can't be Rushu, or any of the ardents who work with Navani, since she's too deeply involved with all the fabrial stuff. The SoH were very interested in Shallan's offer of fabrial schematics, which means it's something their current spy isn't providing them with. So whoever is feeding them info isn't privy to (or is choosing not to give) the fabrial tech.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Lightspine

[clockworkspider]

While in all seriousness, I doubt this will be the case...

I'm putting my spheres on May Aladar, for the memes.

[Karger]

Not enough Data.  I would also like to point out that we don't even know that Ialai is actually working with the SoH.  Shallan's information could be wrong.  She caught these guys way to easy and they are acting way too stupidly.

[+robardin]

 

Just now, Karger said:

Not enough Data.  I would also like to point out that we don't even know that Ialai is actually working with the SoH.  Shallan's information could be wrong.  She caught these guys way to easy and they are acting way too stupidly.

I was thinking this as well.

I would say there are two possibilities:

1) They really are complete dupes, and their "inside info" on Dalinar is actually someone planted by the Ghostbloods to feed them tiny truths mixed with whatever falsehoods the GBs want the SoAs to have on their minds

2) They are actually the masterminds (via Gavilar) for freeing Unmade and bringing about the Everstorm and the True Desolation so on, as they claim, are fully aware of what Shallan is doing with her infiltration job, are stringing her along, and this "Kholin attack!" she was not expecting to have been cued yet is going to be a reason for snagging her away with them "to safety" but in fact, capturing the main Lightweaver from Team Dalinar who just walked right into their hands.

[Karger]

12 minutes ago, robardin said:

I would say there are two possibilities:

You missed the third one. I think they are probably going to take Shallan or at the very least this whole meeting is some kind of elaborate front.  Basically these are not "real" SoH just a buffer group they use for recruitment and low level operations.  I am not sure all of them actually know who they are looking for and Shallan probably tipped her hand by stating she though Ialai was involved.  Finding a group of religious idiots is pretty easy and convincing them you have high level information is equally simple.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Karger

[Pathfinder]

I call Kadash.

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

I call Kadash.

Now that is an interesting angle

Not sure how "inside" Kadash is in terms of providing information, though - I don't think Kadash is with Dalinar on the Fourth Bridge, is he? And that is where Dalinar has been and will be for some time, given its rate of travel and the distance between Urithiru and Hearthstone.

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I call Kadash.

Just now, robardin said:

Now that is an interesting angle

Not sure how "inside" Kadash is in terms of providing information, though - I don't think Kadash is with Dalinar on the Fourth Bridge, is he? And that is where Dalinar has been and will be for some time, given its rate of travel and the distance between Urithiru and Hearthstone.

I considered that but why would Kadesh be so upset about the almighty being dead?  If he is the leader of the SoH then he must have know about the visions before from Gavilar.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Karger

[+robardin]

Just now, Karger said:

I considered that but why would Kadesh be so upset about the almighty being dead?  If he is the leader of the SoH then he must have know about the visions before from Gavilar.

Not that Kadash has been a Son of Honor all along, but I could see (possibly) that he's thrown in with a group he views as more Purely Vorin than Dalinar.

I mean, if you think about it, Dalinar is basically posing as The Heir of Slyth -- I mean, Honor, what with challenging Odium to a contest of champions and opening up His Perpendicularity and renewing spheres and Radiants with Stormlight, while talking about how the Heralds (not the Radiants) forsook mankind. There are sure to be deeply Orthodox Vorin people who cannot accept that idea, while of course having to admit that hey, there sure are a lot of erstwhile parshmen running around taking over countries and whatnot.

It doesn't jibe with what we saw of Kadash the last time we saw him talk to Dalinar, though. He seemed to be cracking a bit in terms of admitting the validity of what Dalinar has been saying. But it's an interesting idea.

[Pathfinder]

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Now that is an interesting angle

Not sure how "inside" Kadash is in terms of providing information, though - I don't think Kadash is with Dalinar on the Fourth Bridge, is he? And that is where Dalinar has been and will be for some time, given its rate of travel and the distance between Urithiru and Hearthstone.

Kadash was a confidant of Dalinar's in Oathbringer. Things only changed due to his upset at Dalinar stating the Almighty is dead. Kadash has a direct line to all the main individuals. He has access to Dalinar and Navani. He has access to Adolin and through him Shallan. I would imagine he had access to Renarin considering Renarin would be questioning his role in regards to the religion given his future sight. So seems pretty well positioned to me. But totally get it doesn't work for everyone. 

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

I considered that but why would Kadesh be so upset about the almighty being dead?  If he is the leader of the SoH then he must have know about the visions before from Gavilar.

It was remarked that Kadash rose through the ranks in the Vorin church oddly quickly. Could have happened with the assistance of the Sons of Honor. I didn't say he was the leader. The title of the thread was Ialai's spy. So I was saying Kadash is her spy. 

[The Ryshadium]

I chose Ruthar, but he honestly seems too obvious. I just thought him the most likely of the options given.

[Karger]

Just now, Pathfinder said:

It was remarked that Kadash rose through the ranks in the Vorin church oddly quickly. Could have happened with the assistance of the Sons of Honor. I didn't say he was the leader. The title of the thread was Ialai's spy. So I was saying Kadash is her spy. 

1 minute ago, robardin said:

Not that Kadash has been a Son of Honor all along, but I could see (possibly) that he's thrown in with a group he views as more Purely Vorin than Dalinar.

That makes a bit more sense but while Kadash might be mad at Dalinar I don't think he would be approving of the goals of SoH nor do I think he would be comfortable working as a double agent.

2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Kadash was a confidant of Dalinar's in Oathbringer. Things only changed due to his upset at Dalinar stating the Almighty is dead. Kadash has a direct line to all the main individuals. He has access to Dalinar and Navani. He has access to Adolin and through him Shallan. I would imagine he had access to Renarin considering Renarin would be questioning his role in regards to the religion given his future sight. So seems pretty well positioned to me. But totally get it doesn't work for everyone

All of that is accurate and the group having access through the ardentia makes total sense but how could he justify betrayal or lying to a person who has tried to do right by him since this all started?  Dalinar even offered to give him to another master and apologized to someone who was technically a slave.  The SoH would have to convince him that this was somehow for the good of the people he was serving.  How would they go about that?

[Nathrangking]

I'll throw in a new name Palona. All this time she has been in plain sight pretending to be disinterested like Sebarial. Meanwhile, she and her husband are becoming important figures in the new Urithiru order. It would be shocking.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Nathrangking

[+Harrycrapper]

What about Danlan, the scribe who courted Adolin and was part of Graves's group? Was she the scribe that made fun of Renarin and Shallan told off? I think she was, but her coppermind page ends at WoR. If I'm right, I think she's still among the scholars at Urithiru. But, she may have decided to offer her services to Ialai now that all her Diagram cohorts were killed/ran off. 

[GudThymes]

6 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

What about Danlan, the scribe who courted Adolin and was part of Graves's group

Ehhh, I don't remember Danlan being a part of the Diagram specifically, I thought that their assassination plot was because each member had a different reason for wanting Elhokar dead?

Also, she met with Kaladin personally, I highly doubt that she would be able to be in a position close enough to the throne to be a spy for Ialai and not get caught out by her previous attempt on the King's life. Plus I don't think it fits her motivation, she felt like Elhokar was a failure and Dalinar should take his place, why would she now be against Dalinar?

[Karger]

34 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

I'll thow in a new name Palona.

NO!

29 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

Was she the scribe that made fun of Renarin and Shallan told off?

No that was someone else.  Kaladin would have IDed her.  I doubt she still has access.

20 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Ehhh, I don't remember Danlan being a part of the Diagram specifically, I thought that their assassination plot was because each member had a different reason for wanting Elhokar dead?

We don't know all their reasons.  I would not put it past Graves to try several approaches to try and see which one works best on Kaladin. 

[Nathrangking]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

NO!

It can't be her or no you don't want it to be her?

[+Child of Hodor]

My problem with Kadash, like Taravangian, is that the two are not close anymore. 

Even when they were on good terms in WoK, Kadash wasn’t at important meetings or anything. Adolin goes to him for advice on Dalinar’s visions, that’s about it. 

The SoH make it sound like they have someone in the inner circle, maybe I’m misinterpreting it. But I’m thinking someone close to his wife or his kids. 

[Pathfinder]

52 minutes ago, Karger said:

That makes a bit more sense but while Kadash might be mad at Dalinar I don't think he would be approving of the goals of SoH nor do I think he would be comfortable working as a double agent.

Don't think we know enough about Kadash to know whether or not he would be comfortable as a double agent, but respect that is how you feel, to each their own. 

52 minutes ago, Karger said:

All of that is accurate and the group having access through the ardentia makes total sense but how could he justify betrayal or lying to a person who has tried to do right by him since this all started?  Dalinar even offered to give him to another master and apologized to someone who was technically a slave.  The SoH would have to convince him that this was somehow for the good of the people he was serving.  How would they go about that?

He could be a member of the SoH as far back as Rathalas. Just throwing out ideas. 

10 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

My problem with Kadash, like Taravangian, is that the two are not close anymore. 

Even when they were on good terms in WoK, Kadash wasn’t at important meetings or anything. Adolin goes to him for advice on Dalinar’s visions, that’s about it. 

The SoH make it sound like they have someone in the inner circle, maybe I’m misinterpreting it. But I’m thinking someone close to his wife or his kids. 

In Words of Radiance Adolin mentions that Kadash is one of Dalinar's foremost ardents. He was privy to proposals such as installing windbreaks to expand the construction yards. So although he is not as present on screen, I do think he has held a pretty important position. But like I said, more throwing out ideas so I can say I called it if it comes to pass

[+Harrycrapper]

Forgot she met Kaladin, nevermind. 

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

He could be a member of the SoH as far back as Rathalas. Just throwing out ideas. 

If that is the case then he should have recognized Dalinar's visions when they showed up.  Adolin talked to him about them as far back as WoKs and he thought it was just PTSD.  He also reacted too strongly to the almighty being dead for me at least to believe that.

4 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Don't think we know enough about Kadash to know whether or not he would be comfortable as a double agent

A fair point but is Dalinar that bad a judge of character?  He tries to see the best in people sure and he got burned with Sadea but he still thought Sadeas was slime even back when they were working together.