RoW Chapter 4 & 5 Discussion

[Ciridae]

I really liked the emphasis on the Heavenly Ones being pretty honorable too. How they have respect for the Radiants, fight them one on one. That moment when Kaladin spared the second Fused was really cool. 

A little disappointed we didnt get a Venli chapter this week, but there is so much going on that it makes sense.

[theTruthshaper]

Leshwi/Kaladin is my new ship. With that out of the way.

 

Sons of Honor:

• Gavilar was actually using them to his own ends, which makes much sense. But I now wonder why he was so adamant about marrying Jasnah to Amaram? I cannot think of reason about how it would benefit him.
• They seem to be a very weak society, especially compared to the Ghostbloods. If Amaram was their leader after Gavilar, I really do not think that Ghostboods/Skybreakers would care much about them.

Fighting Fused:

• The Radiants have now run into the problem of fighting the Fused, since they don't die.
• Those spears are eerily reminiscent of Hemalurgy, but I doubt that they no about it, because they would otherwise use Aluminium to decimate the Radiants.
• The one-on-one fighting is interesting, I don't understand why the Fused do that.

Other stuff:

• Cord's Shardplate is from Aimia?! So, apparently, Aimia does have a cache of Shards. I wonder what happened to Amaram's plate.
• Shallan is more in control, but has big differences in her personalities now. Well, at least the other two don't consider her useless.
• Roshone is improving, I wonder if he is going to get a redemption arc.
• So if I remember correctly, fifty was around the number of honorspren that Rock saw, clearly all of them have bonded Radiants, and no more are willing do so.
• Fused do not use Voidlight to fly. I wonder how that works.

Edited August 4, 2020 by The_Truthwatcher

[rjl]

In terms of actual plot advancement not much happened here:

1. Roshone set off with Godeke to the Manor
2. Shallan's mission was a bust
3. General combat with nothin particular achieved

In terms of info-dumping this was massive:

1. Cord got Shardplate from Aimia (what happened to Amaram's Plate?)
2. 50 "Full Windrunners" and 250 squires
3. Only 1 more HonorSpren willing to bond
4. Jasnah has been interviewing Taln and Ash, and got a lot of info on the fused AND fabrials including that modern fabrials do stuff the Heralds have never seen
5. Dalinar can summon a perpendicularity whenever he wants BUT it's exhausting
6. Everyone's worried about Kaladin

[Innovation]

Interesting how the Heavenly Ones can fly forever, but have to use Voidlight to increase speed. Are they somehow Gravitation Savants or something?

[Scriptorian]

Thumbs up for selling your enemies a fake illusion detector. Brilliant shenaniganry. 
 

Those stormlight draining weapons could be a game changer. Though, to be honest, my mind immediately went to whether a Mistborn could use one to get the edge over a radiant.  The big question though is whether they can drain the stormlight from Plate...

[theTruthshaper]

Just now, Innovation said:

Interesting how the Heavenly Ones can fly forever, but have to use Voidlight to increase speed. Are they somehow Gravitation Savants or something?

Do they have to use Voidlight to increase speed? I got the impression that they simply have an acceleration cap.

[Innovation]

They have to use Voidlight for healing and Lashing. If they already can fly without effort, the only reason whey would need Lashings is for maneuvering and going faster. 

[IcaroRibeiro]

From chapters 7 and 8 readings I guess we aren't getting a Venli POV until chapter 10 at least

[theTruthshaper]

Just now, Innovation said:

They have to use Voidlight for healing and Lashing. If they already can fly without effort, the only reason whey would need Lashings is for maneuvering and going faster. 

Since they only occasionally use Lashings, I felt that this referred the Lashings as Kaladin does to objects, not himself.

[Trizee]

I wonder if the epigraphs for one of the parts will be from jasnah's interview of the heralds

[Mat]

If Cord's plate is from Aimia, does that mean she goes with Rysn in the novella?

Also, I looked up the word 'stumer'- the one Syl says Lift used, and it's an actual word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stumer

[Blightsong]

A few interesting tid-bits in these chapters!

• Who do you all believe is working with the Sons of Honor to betray Dalinar? Taravangian?
• Dalinar opening a perpendicularity on command is interesting. It seems pretty clear at this point that Dalinar is a full Sliver as we've seen in other books, being Connected to such vast amounts of power. Makes me wonder if there are past Bondsmiths running around the Cognitive Realm as Cognitive Shadows (Ghostbloods?). Perhaps that would explain the below quote from Nale, or this scene where a much older Nohadon appears to Dalinar and tells him of his life before curtailing Dalinar's suspicions:

Quote

“You think you can fight me, child?” he growled, holding his Blade against her rod. “I who have lived immortal lives? I who have slain demigods and survived Desolations? I am the Herald of Justice.”

Quote

“This … is different from the other visions,” Dalinar said. “What’s going on?” The thumping from before returned. Dalinar spun, then charged out of the tent, determined to get a look at the thing. He saw it above the buildings, a stone creature with an angular face and red spots glowing deep in its rocky skull. Storms! And he had no weapon. Nohadon stepped from the tent, holding his bag of grain. He looked up and smiled. The creature leaned down, then offered a large, skeletal hand. Nohadon touched it with its own, and the creature stilled. “This is quite the nightmare you’ve created,” Nohadon said

• Those aluminum spears with the gemstones were very interesting. Seems like Aluminum could be another method with which to capture spren in a fabrial.
• And finally... the Aimia bit! Seems like Cord may be a character in the upcoming novella!

Edited August 4, 2020 by Blightsong

[Justin]

I really like Fused using Aluminum to block Shardblades on their lances.

[ScadrianTank]

• We have confirmation that Mraize is at least partially behind Shalan's investigation into Sons of Honor. 
• Ash has been sharing information with the coalition.
• Ialai is indeed working with the Sons of Honor.
• There are 50 Windrunners, awesome.
• The Fused use aluminum(?) and fabrials in their weapons.
• Cord is awesome.

Some thoughts: What these chapters told us is that a lot more happened since the end of Oathbringer than we assumed. Having fifty Windrunners is incredible and a lot more than we anticipated. This brings up some questions. Are the Windrunners the only Order to get a lot of recruits? Does this mean that there are more spren on Roshar than before the Recreance since WoR said that there were 15 of the Windrunners, or some spren "retired" following Aharietiam?

On the topic of Shallan I just hope that she will be able to deal with Ialai in a more civilized manner than Adolin had with Sadeas. 

[+Child of Hodor]

Just now, The_Truthwatcher said:

Do they have to use Voidlight to increase speed? I got the impression that they simply have an acceleration cap.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9412

My interpretation of what Brandon is saying is they burn Voidlight more efficiently, but can't use as many lashings at once which is why they are slower, but can go longer. 

1 minute ago, Blightsong said:

A few interesting tid-bits in these chapters!

• Who do you all believe is working with the Sons of Honor to betray Dalinar? Taravangian?

Hadn't thought of Taravangian, good call!  I wonder if they are all that close anymore. Regardless, he's still in the alliance, so he gets plenty of intel that way.

[nonix]

1 minute ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

Since they only occasionally use Lashings, I felt that this referred the Lashings as Kaladin does to objects, not himself.

I'm thinking that the fused and regals have abilities that do not require voidlight. I think the best evidence we see of this is stormform which would throw lightning, and so far as we know and can tell, did not have access to voidlight. So I think that the fused would have similar abilities that are ingrained into their being through the gemheart that keeps their powers working.

[theTruthshaper]

Just now, nonix said:

I'm thinking that the fused and regals have abilities that do not require voidlight. I think the best evidence we see of this is stormform which would throw lightning, and so far as we know and can tell, did not have access to voidlight. So I think that the fused would have similar abilities that are ingrained into their being through the gemheart that keeps their powers working.

This is exactly my point.

[+Mojulesttron]

Quote

There, unfortunately, progress stopped. Kaladin had lines of men and women ready to advance and say the oaths, but there weren’t willing honorspren to be found. At this point, there was only a single one he knew of who was willing, but didn’t have a bond.

I find this to be very interesting. The way I understand it, there is one last Windspren willing to bond, but can't do so. This seems to indicate that the potential Radiant chosen by this spren is the one unwilling (or unable) to bond. What seems most likely to me is that it's Rock. The fact that he is holding something back from Bridge Four, combined with the fact that he has to deal with tremendous gulit would probably make it hard for him to form a bond. Logic tells me Rock is the best choice (as far as we know right now). But I actually would want it to be Rlain. He has been teased all throughout Oathbringer as a potential Radiant but hat to be kept in the Background in order for Venli to shine. Now we could get to see a truly epic arc for him, hopefully including a meeting with Venli (maybe even a rescue mission to get her to Urithiru?). Considering that the Listeners and Singers are becoming more and more central as the story progresses, seeing more of them become Radiant sooner rather than later would be amazing. 

[Michael Portz]

23 minutes ago, Mikelowry said:

Kind of scares me, for how big the scope is getting so quickly!! 

Weeeeell ... I won‘t call 10 years (15, if you start counting with Elantris) of cosmere publications „quick“ 

[+Oltux72]

5 minutes ago, Justin said:

I really like Fused using Aluminum to block Shardblades on their lances.

Yet this is extremely odd. Navani is using aluminium. The Azish know about it. Yet Kaladin does not identify it? He knows what the gem at the end does. The spears cannot be new. Yet the Windrunners have never captured one to give to Navani's people? What is wrong with them. They can't be so dense that they think a material that blocks Shard weapons is not important.

[Kuram]

I guess the theories of Rock being a different order are a little less likely, as he lashes a spear to Kaladin.  Still, if he's just a squire, I suppose it's still possible for him to go with another order.

[Innovation]

4 minutes ago, nonix said:

I'm thinking that the fused and regals have abilities that do not require voidlight. I think the best evidence we see of this is stormform which would throw lightning, and so far as we know and can tell, did not have access to voidlight. So I think that the fused would have similar abilities that are ingrained into their being through the gemheart that keeps their powers working.

I agree, this could be what is happening. However, after using their powers for centuries, they could have become Gravitation Savants. 

[nonix]

Just now, Innovation said:

I agree, this could be what is happening. However, after using their powers for centuries, they could have become Gravitation Savants. 

Do we have a WoB about the fused becoming savants? I would imagine it would be quite different since they go to Braize and get new bodies, and would having a gemheart change things? 

[Innovation]

I think it is because Savanthood permeates the soul, although it can have some effects on the body. 

[+Mojulesttron]

8 minutes ago, Innovation said:

I think it is because Savanthood permeates the soul, although it can have some effects on the body. 

I think you are right, I  believe it does change the spirit-web directly. The question is how exactly the whole posession-process works, exactly. How intact is the spirit-web of the fused after mutliple rebirths? Does the spirit-web of the sacrificed singer get completely replaced/remodeled or is it some sort of twisted amalgamation? But it would be pretty cool to see some surge-related savantism from the Fused, as the Radiants are supposedly immune/resistant to it. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Mojulesttron