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Adolin: What's His Future?


Nick11

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Adolin's future is one of the things I'm most curious about. I don't really need another Radiant in the Kholin household, but Sanderson is keeping Adolin awfully close to the Surges and spren and who knows what will happen when he finally revives his sword. Adolin might become a proper Radiant, or something brand new that uses the spren differently. 

Or maybe not. Maybe he'll just be a powerless second string player the whole time leading the normal soldiers while all his friends and family are flying around blowing up mountains. Shardbearers can't hold ground and neither can Radiants, so who better to hold it for them than Adolin?

Regarding the murder of Sadeas, Adolin seems to feel guilty not because he killed a man outside of ritual/military combat but because he let Dalinar down. He tells Shallan that he feels pretty justified in his actions, but regrets that he broke the Codes. I don't think this comes anywhere close to breaking him enough for a Nahel bond. 

I don't think the kid is broken enough for a bond at all, honestly. We've been in his head enough to have a fairly good grasp on his character and while he has his problems, he's very well adjusted. But look at his struggle to reconcile with the changes in the world; he was one of the most influential and powerful people in Vorin culture, and now he's living in a world where people have Surges, travel to other realms, and he's been swept up in a theological war well beyond his understanding. Adolin, for the first time ever, feels small and he's trying real hard to be cool about it, but we've seen him worry about what and where his role is. And don't forget, he has no idea that Dalinar is responsible for what happened in the Rift. Adolin isn't broken, but he probably will be by the time this is all said and done.

And I suspect that he'll end up fighting Odium's champion in the end, whatever happens to him. He's supposed to be one of the best duelists around right? He's likely the most qualified, as far as skill goes.

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On 7/31/2020 at 6:39 PM, GudThymes said:

You're not wrong about the culture comment, although I don't think the Alethi really view what Adolin did as bad, illegal maybe, but it wasn't bad. Where are you getting that it's bothering Adolin? It's been a while since I've read the book and can't remember it specfically, but I also found this WoB:

From this it's clear that Adolin does not think it's murder, while the morality is still up for debate. I'm just not convinced Adolin is "broken" (as what others in the thread were claiming) because of the murder of Sadeas.

I think he comes to terms talking about it with Shallan in Shadesmar.  By the time he admits it to Dalinar, he also says that he doesn't regret it.  But I think he also doesn't fully think it is moral, since he uses it as a reason why he's unfit to be king.

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So had Kaladin been in the vicinity, fresh off from swearing the Third Ideal of the Windrunners...

...would it not have been right to defend even the hated, but unarmed Sadeas from Adolin? (With neither having summoned their Shardblade, but Adolin having a knife?)

He'd just said to Moash: "We're not going to be this kind of men. Murders in dark corridors, ... telling ourselves it's for the good of the kingdom."

Isn't that literally and exactly what Adolin did?

Edited by robardin
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Adolin desperately wants to live up to his father's standards. He wants to live by the codes and make Dalinar proud. I could easily see killing Sadeas as "breaking" him...to an extent. He lost control and thinks his father would be ashamed.  He also seems quite shaken up by everyone around him being Radiant, leaving him feeling useless--which is especially hard with him being raised a shardbearing prince. 

And if he's not broken yet... when Shallan/Veil and Kaladin have their inevitable affair, that will surely break him.

But seriously, I hope he does NOT become a radiant. It's less fun if every Kholin is a Radiant. There could surely be some fun plot twists that require non-radiant characters.

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6 hours ago, robardin said:

So had Kaladin been in the vicinity, fresh off from swearing the Third Ideal of the Windrunners...

...would it not have been right to defend even the hated, but unarmed Sadeas from Adolin? (With neither having summoned their Shardblade, but Adolin having a knife?)

He'd just said to Moash: "We're not going to be this kind of men. Murders in dark corridors, ... telling ourselves it's for the good of the kingdom."

Isn't that literally and exactly what Adolin did?

Sorta-kinda but not entirely. Granted, Adolin "literally" kills Sadeas in a dark corridor but I think the situations are quite different. Kaladin was talking about secret plots to assassinate a king while pretending to be an ally and loyal subject. For all of Elokhar's faults he wasn't a villain and he wasn't opposing Bridge Four or the Kholins or anything like that. He was just an idiot.

Sadeas had basically just explained his evil plan to Adolin in a movie villain monologue. He explained how he was going to spin events to make things look like Dalinar was working with the Parshendi and take control of Urithuru. Sadeas straight up says "I'm not going to admit Dalinar was right, I'm going to keep coming at you people until I murder my way to the throne." Sadeas might not have been swinging a sword at Dalinar's neck that very second, but he makes it clear he's not going to stop until the Kholins are dust.

I think that makes a difference. Maybe it's not much of a difference, and maybe Kaladin would still be oath-sworn to stop Adolin. But Moash was trying to kill the king out of selfishness, Adolin killed Sadeas because Sadeas was a clear and direct threat to Adolin, his family, the kingdom, and humanity.

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15 hours ago, Ain Soph said:

Sorta-kinda but not entirely. Granted, Adolin "literally" kills Sadeas in a dark corridor but I think the situations are quite different. Kaladin was talking about secret plots to assassinate a king while pretending to be an ally and loyal subject. For all of Elokhar's faults he wasn't a villain and he wasn't opposing Bridge Four or the Kholins or anything like that. He was just an idiot.

Sadeas had basically just explained his evil plan to Adolin in a movie villain monologue. He explained how he was going to spin events to make things look like Dalinar was working with the Parshendi and take control of Urithuru. Sadeas straight up says "I'm not going to admit Dalinar was right, I'm going to keep coming at you people until I murder my way to the throne." Sadeas might not have been swinging a sword at Dalinar's neck that very second, but he makes it clear he's not going to stop until the Kholins are dust.

I think that makes a difference. Maybe it's not much of a difference, and maybe Kaladin would still be oath-sworn to stop Adolin. But Moash was trying to kill the king out of selfishness, Adolin killed Sadeas because Sadeas was a clear and direct threat to Adolin, his family, the kingdom, and humanity.

Well then, where was the (lack of) justification to prosecute Sadeas for his betrayal of Dalinar - which wasn't secret; he lied to the Queen Mother's FACE, and Renarin, both family to the king, in public - about what happened out there with the Parshendi.

Even if Dalinar mentally reflected that Alethi culture drew a difference between abandoning an ally on the battlefield and openly attacking another highprince, that betrayal also meant that Sadeas had been willing not just to abandon Dalinar, Adolin, and their 8,000 Kholin troops to die, but to furnish the Parshendi enemy with the two complete sets of Shards they bore in so doing. He even described the "Parshendi savages" to Navani as carrying away bloody chunks of their Shardplate as prizes, as if they wouldn't even know how Shardplate worked. That has to be considered some serious, top level "traitor to the vengeance pact" stuff.

So I'm not saying Sadeas "shouldn't have been killed", or even that there wasn't already a basis for Elhokar (as the Alethi king and a Kholin, to boot) to render harsh judgment on him. He forbore because Dalinar forbore, who in turn forbore out of his deep desire to UNITE THEM, which still included the Sadeas highprincedom as being roughly 1/12 of Alethkar.

However, the basis for Kaladin saying they should get justice "the right way" and not via "murder in a dark corridor" doesn't carry the conclusion, "unless justice the right way had its chance and chose to stand down". As Syl said, "You're not a Skybreaker, Kaladin."

It makes for an interesting thought experiment, as his confession to the murder only happened almost at the very end of Words of Radiance and the repercussions have yet to be shown. While we see his being named the Kholin highprince and marriage to Shallan still went on as planned, so whatever they were, they didn't preclude that... But while I'm sure Kaladin doesn't regret the death of Sadeas, will that revelation change the way that Kaladin views Adolin?

Edited by robardin
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My thoughts: 

Of the three 2nd Gen Kholins (Jasnah, Adolin, & Renarin), I think at least one will die and at least one will become a worldhopper. My bet is unfortunately on Renarin dying, as much as I don't want that to happen. 

That leaves either Jasnah or Adolin as a worldhopper, and honestly I can see either. I can see Adolin becoming a worldhopper with Shallan as they climb the ranks of the Ghostbloods, but I can also see Jasnah discovering the academy at Silverlight and spending her time there post-Era/Arc 2 (where she's writing Book 10 of the Stormlight Archive, titled The Stormlight Archive.) But I can also see Jasnah dying and Renarin living (not as common, but I can see it.) 

Overall, I guess if Renarin dies and Jasnah lives, Adolin stays on Roshar/with the Rosharan people. If Renarin lives and Jasnah dies, then Adolin becomes a worldhopper. Heck, maybe that'll be the conclusion of his murder with Sadeas; Adolin is banished (like that means much these days, but still), and he uses that to join the Ghostbloods with Shallan full-time. 

 

I'm probably wrong about most of this, if not all of it, but that's kind of what I see right now. 

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I have a very different take on Adolin's future.  This is based in my theory that Kaladin will reform Honor and Ascend.  When he does so, he will need new Heralds to replace the existing ones.  I think that Adolin will skip KR status and become the new Edgedancer Herald.  While Ash and Taln may be restored to sanity by the Ascension, the rest seem beyond redemption, especially Ishar.  Therefore, all orders except Dustbringer and Stoneward will need new Heralds.  I also see the role of the Heralds changing from "dying and being tortured to contain Odium" to "regulating the orders of Knights Radiant".

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On 8/21/2020 at 9:36 AM, robardin said:

via "murder in a dark corridor" doesn't carry the conclusion, "unless justice the right way had its chance and chose to stand down". As Syl said, "You're not a Skybreaker, Kaladin."

But while I'm sure Kaladin doesn't regret the death of Sadeas, will that revelation change the way that Kaladin views Adolin?

I think it will change the way everyone sees Adolin, honestly. Some might see him in a more positive light, claiming that he proved he would do what was necessary to protect his House, others will see him in a less positive light, claiming that what he did was no better than the actions of a common criminal. Personally I take no issue with what Adolin did at all, Sadeas deserved what he got and was a clear and present danger to everybody.

As for Kaladin specifically, Sadeas was a threat to Dalinar and the people Kaladin had sworn to protect so I don't think there'd be a problem with Adolin killing him. But the oaths can be a little weird sometimes too, and the way Adolin killed Sadeas may have rubbed up against Kaladin's bond in a bad way. I don't think it would, I'm just saying it's possible.

Regarding the fact that the Kholins didn't prosecute Sadeas for his betrayal, like you said Dalinar was still trying to unite the Alethi and was willing to let things slide to accomplish that. Prosecuting Sadeas would have alienated his allies and split the kingdom. But by the time Adolin kills Sadeas, that's already happened; some of the Highprinces stayed behind in the war camps and Sadeas' faction was solidly set against the Kholins and their allies. So the reason Dalinar didn't persecute Sadeas in the first place was no longer a factor. And all their attempts to discredit Sadeas, like with Adolin's duel, had failed too. 

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I simply do not understand why people insist that Adolin will become an Edgedancer.  

I know a lot of people want this to happen but frankly, you could squeeze him into a lot of orders based on what little we know about the Knight's Radiant. 

Don't forget that, before Oathbringer, a lot of fans believed that he was going to be a Dustbringer on the grounds that he was brave and obedient to a fault.  When it was revealed that Maya is a cultivationspren, everyone jumped to the conclusion that he would become an Edgedancer.  But, to me, this seems to be like trying to fit a square peg into a triangle-shaped hole.  After all:

  • if Maya was an honorspren, people would argue that he is well on his way to becoming a Windrunner.  They would cite his desire to protect people in need like the prostitute in Sadeas's camp, his brother, and his mother.
  • If Maya was a Stoneward spren, people would argue that he would become a Stoneward.  In Shadsmar, he stands firm when Kaladin and Shallan are going through their own mental breakdowns.  He has proven that he is Shallan's reliable rock when she is awash in a sea of uncertainty
  • If Maya was a lightspren, people would argue that his love of fashion is proof of his love of novelty that the Willshapers are known for.
  • If Maya was a highspeed, people would argue that Adolin always follows the law according to Alethi tradition.  Hell, even his murder of Sadeas could be whipped under the rug considering that Szeth has murdered thousands.

My point is that we simply do not have enough data to assume he is currently best suited to becoming an Edgedancer.  With enough mental gymnastics, you could fit him anywhere.  Down the road, he could swear oaths.  Maybe Adolin's arc will involve him trying to swear the oaths of the Edgedancers out of a desire to revive Maya.

But at the moment, it would a little too convenient if Adolin happened to stumble upon the spren that embodies the order he is best suited for.

 

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10 hours ago, SomeRandomPeasant said:

I simply do not understand why people insist that Adolin will become an Edgedancer.  ...

My point is that we simply do not have enough data to assume he is currently best suited to becoming an Edgedancer.  With enough mental gymnastics, you could fit him anywhere.  Down the road, he could swear oaths.  Maybe Adolin's arc will involve him trying to swear the oaths of the Edgedancers out of a desire to revive Maya.

But at the moment, it would [be] a little too convenient if Adolin happened to stumble upon the spren that embodies the order he is best suited for.

Somewhere I've speculated that it's possible his reviving Maya might allow her to re-bond... With someone else. And that maybe Adolin ends up being a kind of Shardblade Whisperer, LOL.

But it could also be the case that his being Edgedancer-y is a component of the mix of unique circumstances and factors that has enabled a dead spren to revive without the previous Nahel bond being restored.

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On 30.08.2020 at 5:13 AM, SomeRandomPeasant said:

I simply do not understand why people insist that Adolin will become an Edgedancer.  

I know a lot of people want this to happen but frankly, you could squeeze him into a lot of orders based on what little we know about the Knight's Radiant. 

Don't forget that, before Oathbringer, a lot of fans believed that he was going to be a Dustbringer on the grounds that he was brave and obedient to a fault.  When it was revealed that Maya is a cultivationspren, everyone jumped to the conclusion that he would become an Edgedancer.  But, to me, this seems to be like trying to fit a square peg into a triangle-shaped hole.  After all:

  • if Maya was an honorspren, people would argue that he is well on his way to becoming a Windrunner.  They would cite his desire to protect people in need like the prostitute in Sadeas's camp, his brother, and his mother.
  • If Maya was a Stoneward spren, people would argue that he would become a Stoneward.  In Shadsmar, he stands firm when Kaladin and Shallan are going through their own mental breakdowns.  He has proven that he is Shallan's reliable rock when she is awash in a sea of uncertainty
  • If Maya was a lightspren, people would argue that his love of fashion is proof of his love of novelty that the Willshapers are known for.
  • If Maya was a highspeed, people would argue that Adolin always follows the law according to Alethi tradition.  Hell, even his murder of Sadeas could be whipped under the rug considering that Szeth has murdered thousands.

My point is that we simply do not have enough data to assume he is currently best suited to becoming an Edgedancer.  With enough mental gymnastics, you could fit him anywhere.  Down the road, he could swear oaths.  Maybe Adolin's arc will involve him trying to swear the oaths of the Edgedancers out of a desire to revive Maya.

But at the moment, it would a little too convenient if Adolin happened to stumble upon the spren that embodies the order he is best suited for.

 

Point is, someone dont have to fit very good into Order to be in it. I doubht that all Bridgemen are as good candidates for Windrunners as Kal. Example - Lopen. He will be very good Edgedancer.

Its not about who he is now, but who he could become. Adolin can be Edgedancer (as good as he can be Windrunner, Skybreaker, Stoneward or Willshaper) not because he fits perfectly, but because for his Balde - Maya, he can grow to be this Radiant. He not atract spren, he intentionaly BECOMES match for his Blade. Journey before destination.

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First of all, I just wanna say that focusing on whether or not Adolin is "broken enough" is a pointless argument. Yes I know about the whole "cracks in the spirit web" thing, but at this point it's pretty clear that it's really not that important a requisite for becoming Radiant, and it's kind of a reductive way of looking at characters overall.

Anyway, I think it would be really cool if Adolin became an Edgedancer. I don't have problems with there being as many Radiants as possible, because Stormlight is a more "magic heavy" cosmere story and a big part of the premise is magic returning after being gone for millennia. I also think it would be interesting to see how the prince of one of the largest kingdoms in the world adjust to learning to remember and listen to the common people of the world. Sure, he's nice to common people but that only means he's capable of greater change, he's not really conscious of how badly lower class citizens are treated by the system that placed him on top. The whole Radiant progression is all about the individual journey, and seeing how people from widely different walks of life grow and change to these new abilities and responsibilities, so while there is potential in seeing how Adolin adapts to being normal, there's plenty of potential in seeing him adapt to Radiance as well.

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On 8/31/2020 at 0:47 AM, Bzhydack said:

Point is, someone dont have to fit very good into Order to be in it. I doubht that all Bridgemen are as good candidates for Windrunners as Kal. Example - Lopen. He will be very good Edgedancer.

Its not about who he is now, but who he could become. Adolin can be Edgedancer (as good as he can be Windrunner, Skybreaker, Stoneward or Willshaper) not because he fits perfectly, but because for his Balde - Maya, he can grow to be this Radiant. He not atract spren, he intentionaly BECOMES match for his Blade. Journey before destination.

As I said, Adolin could become an Edgedancer, just like he could become anything.  But the point is that he isn’t there now.  It is also possible that Szeth could forsake his vows or that Lirin will become a Dustbringer.  I just think there is not that much evidence supported in the text.  For example, I think there are far more hints in the series that indicate that Navani will become the next Bondsmith bonded with the Sibling.

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18 hours ago, DracostarA said:

A random but fun theory I had is that Adolin might be claimed by a spren of a different order (maybe Dustbringers or something) before Maya is revived, which could be a new issue that's never happened before so humans and spren alike don't know how to deal with it.

Now I just have the image of Maya and some new spren fighting over Adolin like some really weird love triangle.

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On 9/1/2020 at 5:48 AM, SomeRandomPeasant said:

As I said, Adolin could become an Edgedancer, just like he could become anything.  But the point is that he isn’t there now.  It is also possible that Szeth could forsake his vows or that Lirin will become a Dustbringer.  I just think there is not that much evidence supported in the text.  For example, I think there are far more hints in the series that indicate that Navani will become the next Bondsmith bonded with the Sibling.

I think much of what we have seen about Adolin in the text meshes with Lift’s perspective on acknowledging the forgotten, and she’s the only Edgedancer we know of so far. But I agree that there are many orders that people might “fit”. In that way, radiant orders are much like horoscopes or MBTI tests—they are adaptable and involve some semblance of choice and decision to fit yourself into.

with that said, I love that radiant orders expressly embrace this choice, from both sides. Spren get to choose..so do people. And if they choose one another, a radiant (and his/her unique path through their oaths) is born. Being “broken” may make this bond easier, but it’s not a necessity—because the spren get to choose.

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I always thought Adolin will die and his death will effect Dalinar and Renarin. Especially Dalinar since he expect so much from Adolin and almost nothing from Renarin in The first book. But Sanderson messed up everything with Shallan. I hate his story now.

Sadeas’s death is great moral dilemma and Adolin is only important person who is not knights radiant. This alone makes him very special. I’m afraid he will live.

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