Adolin: What's His Future?

[Nick11]

I was talking with my wife about whats in store Adolin.

Theres theories that he will revive his blade and become an edgedancer. He fits an edgedancer. Remembering those who have been forgotten...his blade...and his interaction with the prostitute, such down to earth conversations with bridgemen. It fits, if not perfectly. 

I initially thought that Adolin reflects a stoneward. The best infantry, reliable, dependable, selfless in service to others as the coppermind points out.

I've also seen that as an unparalleled duelist,a shardbearer, a tactical and strategic expert, and an heir to a princedom and not far from heir to Alethkar is suddenly outclassed in a world of voidbringers and radiants so he finds his humble way in the shadows of giants.

I've also heard of him going darkside in search for meaning (least likely IMO).

After talking about all of this a thought occurred to me. He remembers those who are forgotten, he protects those that cannot protect themselves, he locks himself in a dungeon on principle, he is as good as Dalinar without a past of war crimes, he transforms others into better people, he brings people together, he is passionate about his life, he ruins and kills when it is necessary, yet he preserves when it is wise, while progressing others when its needed. He is not a radiant because he is not broken, and never needed to be forged anew because he was forged a great way the first time. My wife constantly said he is the most balanced person of all of our cast of characters from Kaladin to Kelsier.

I'm casting my chips on this, he is meant for something more than surgebinding or holding a single shard like Tanavast. Theres no evidence in the writings but I'll take a wild guess and say that if Adonalsium requires a host, he is a candidate.

Besides this is Brandon.....like I saw Sazed being Hero of Ages....so Im learning lol.

What are our thoughts?

[Spren of Kindness]

I don't think Adolin will become a Radiant unless something major happens as the story goes forward.  Would he be a good one?  Probably.  But at the moment, he doesn't seem to have the cracks a Nahel bond would fill - though I saw somewhere someone suggested that Mayalaran is the one who is broken and Adolin will fill in the cracks.  I expect he'll start doing more on the political side of things as the war continues.

[Karger]

58 minutes ago, Nick11 said:

I was talking with my wife about whats in store Adolin.

So firstly.  I am so glad you have a partner that you can causally discuss this with.  I hope you understand the gift that is.

Secondly I think he will teach other people how to revive blades.  These might not grant full radiant powers but major restitution for the recreance would be a huge deal.  My pet theory is that he will gain the power to grant darkeyes lighteyed status by "knighting" them.

[Mat]

This is not a happy thought, and I apologize. But... I'd be surprised if Adolin survived through book 10.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Nick11 said:

Besides this is Brandon.....like I saw Sazed being Hero of Ages....so Im learning lol.

Uhm might want to put that in spoilers.

Also so true.

[Elsecaller_17.5]

@Nick11 I couldn't agree more. Failing is an ideal candidate for Edgedancer. He summoned Maya at the battle of Thayelean early and that already makes him Pseudo-Radient. I would be shocked if he lives through 6 more books and doesn't restore and bond with Maya.

[GudThymes]

48 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

He summoned Maya at the battle of Thayelean early and that already makes him Pseudo-Radient.

I'm not sure about that take. I would assume that a Pseudo-Radiant would be like Kaladin in early WoK. Currently representing and living the ideals of one of the orders and attracting one of their spren. Working towards the initial bond.

What Adolin is doing with Maya is unprecedented. We know that Maya and the other Shardblades are a direct result of the abandonment of the oaths. What we've seen Adolin do over the course of WoR and Oathbringer is treat Maya not as just a sword but as something more. He personifies her (even before he knows she's a spren) and treats her with respect and Honor. I would assume that what Adolin is doing is more akin to restoring Maya as a Spren rather than restoring the abandoned bond she had.

 

5 hours ago, Spren of Kindness said:

though I saw somewhere someone suggested that Mayalaran is the one who is broken and Adolin will fill in the cracks.

I love, love, love this theory. However, I have one major qualm with it. I'll describe my take on the Nahel bond -- Basically a mortal being (Physical realm being) creates a bond (agreement/oath) with a Cognitive entity (Spren/Splinter) thus giving the mortal access to investiture. I think that as the Nahel bond progresses the Spren's identity is being integrated and merged with the Identity of the mortal. I think that when the bond was broken unilaterally (as opposed to with death, or by the spren) this caused the Spren's Identity to get locked out of it's Cognitive body. I think what Adolin is doing with Maya is restoring her Identity rather than restoring the bond.

[+Bzhydack]

6 hours ago, GudThymes said:

I think what Adolin is doing with Maya is restoring her Identity rather than restoring the bond.

But after spren is fully bonded with human, they have the same Identity and have merged mind. So to restoring spren Identity mean restoring the Nahel Bond. It is the problem, because Mayas former Knight is long dead, is not possible to restore old bond. But Adolin and Maya have "normal blade" bond, so they probably build Nahel Bond on this foundation. Basicly, they need to build new Bond and replace old.

And yes, i also love theory that Maya is one who is broken - she has broken mind, and this is what Spre have as benefit in PR - mind.

And we dont know Adolin isnt broken. Renarin is, Jasnah is, Navani is, Dalinar was. Dalinar wasnt good father, this hit Reanrin mostly, but could hit Adolin too. And losing mother... this can be devastating. Adolin doesnt look like brooken person.... but Lift also doesnt look like this.

[GudThymes]

3 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

But after spren is fully bonded with human, they have the same Identity and have merged mind.

What's your reasoning for this? We know their Identities merge definitely, but to say they have the same Identity? I've pulled a few different WoB's that I think challenge this. Let me know your thoughts?

Quote

Questioner

I was wondering if a bond to a spren, a Nahel bond, may be taken with a Hemalurgic spike.

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible but it's gonna-- Since the spren has free will it's going to be-- Yeah it's going to have weird ramifications but it is a possible thing.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 23, 2017)

If you can take the Nahel Bond from the spren, then wouldn't you also steal the whole Identity of the mortal? Brandon says "weird ramifications" so I'm not sure if that would be one of them? Still undecided here.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will.

Questioner

So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary--

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were--

Questioner

Intact?

Brandon Sanderson

--the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that...

Here's another that I found. I'm not sure how it directly changes our arguments but if I read this correctly the Nahel Bond is based off Connection. So presumably what Adolin is doing is restoring the Connection to Maya, thus restoring her? I'm now unsure of my view on this.

[+Bzhydack]

Found it:

Quote

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)
#50 Share Copy

Play/P

yulerule (Paraphrased)

I also asked about the connection between the spren and Surgebinder, such that the spren turns into what the Surgebinder wants. Like in Edgedancer, [Wyndle] turns into a bar of metal and into a Shardfork. Wyndle himself isn't "in tune" with Lift, so his turning into something that she needs with no prior warning...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, they actually mix. When the bonding is happening, what's happening is that the gaps in the souls are being filled with the spren's <essence>. And they are actually melding into one 

yulerule

*inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

And they are actually melding into one individual *inaudible*.

yulerule

<And the minds are separate?>

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, mhm.

So if Spren and Radiant are merged into one Spiritual Entity, this mean now they have new, one identity. Your examples are about Hemalurgy, but core of this "Art" is ripping off part of the soul and adding it to new Soul. In other WoB Brandon talks:

Quote

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 7, 2015)
#34 Dec. 7, 2015 Share Copy

 

 

Lucadaw

If someone used Hemalurgy to take someones Feruchemical abilities would they be able to use that persons personal metalminds? Most relevantly perhaps to take that person's knowledge from their copperminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Lucadaw

If someone stored their identity in an aluminium metalmind, then had their powers and metalminds stolen via Hemalurgy, then the person who took the powers used the aluminium metalmind to draw out the first persons identity would it permanently overwrite their personality with the original persons ? ( would kind of be a long winded way of stealing someone else's body and becoming immortal )

Brandon Sanderson

All Identity questions are a RAFO until I deal with it more in the books. (Sorry.)

WeiryWriter (in response to the first answer)

If the spike granting Feruchemy were to be reforged/split into two distinct spikes which are then implanted into two different people, could those two people "share" a metalmind (as in actually be able to tap something the other stored and vice versa?).

Brandon Sanderson

It's complicated, but no.

There would be too much of the other person mixed in. Both could use the metalminds of the person the Feruchemy was stolen from, but when they made their own, their own Identity would "muddy" the creation.

Yes, Nahel Bond are based on Connection, but is more than that. When youre stealing it with Hemalurgy, you dont steal just Connection (as you do with dead shardblade), you steal Connection with Identity - so spked person will have the same Identity as Spren.

Plus is also case of Shardplate. Shardplate has the same Identity as Radiant because he can use Surges throu his own Plate. And Plate is product of Nahel Bond.

[Harbour]

First, i think, Adolin isnt very important Stormlight character. Key moment indicating this for me was that Brandon didnt intent to bring Adolin in Part 1 of OB, but beta testers pointed at it and he added him there. This, along with the fact that Adolin already was a secondary character, made me feel Brandon doesnt see Adolin irreplaceable.

Second, i think, he will play certain role in the global scheme of things. Mayala mini plot and him killing Sadeas point at it.

Both points make his future very blurred and unpredictable. He may turn a bad guy. He may die in Book 4 or 5. He may revive Maya and become Edgedancer and live through the all 10 books. Or do the same but without being an Edgedancer.

To me certain points in the lot and character relationships point at high possibility of certain plot point - in book 5 and further Adolin will go on solo adventure with some purpose. Will it be revival of Maya or something else - i dont know. I can hardly see him having a personal plot without him becoming and independent character. Him being connected to Shallan and her big plot line kinda presses down his own plot line. To me he will always feel like just the part of Shallan arc until he will separate himself from her. And i think, this separation will happen during or after Shadesmar trip.

[Honorless]

I dislike the phrasing of Adolin talking to his blade being compared to the Edgedancer's Ideals. It was just a habit of his, much like his lucky charm.

[GudThymes]

3 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

So if Spren and Radiant are merged into one Spiritual Entity, this mean now they have new, one identity. Your examples are about Hemalurgy, but core of this "Art" is ripping off part of the soul and adding it to new Soul. In other WoB Brandon talks:

Ahhhh. Thank you! Alright, this tears apart my argument against how Ado reviving Maya. Thank you :D.

 

3 hours ago, Harbour said:

First, i think, Adolin isnt very important Stormlight character. Key moment indicating this for me was that Brandon didnt intent to bring Adolin in Part 1 of OB, but beta testers pointed at it and he added him there. This, along with the fact that Adolin already was a secondary character, made me feel Brandon doesnt see Adolin irreplaceable.

I don't like this argument. Just because a character wasn't intended to be primary from their inception doesn't mean that they don't have a chance to change and evolve the story as it goes. There are ten books in this series. Brandon has said that he knows broad strokes how the story will be told, but if he comes up with a new idea or new way of getting there I highly doubt he won't be willing to change the story. Hence Adolin being born. I think the fact that Adolin exists in the first place as a character is proof that he is important and has a role. 

 

3 hours ago, Harbour said:

Both points make his future very blurred and unpredictable. He may turn a bad guy. He may die in Book 4 or 5. He may revive Maya and become Edgedancer and live through the all 10 books. Or do the same but without being an Edgedancer.

I agree with the content of what you're saying here, but not the spirit. Adolin's future while isn't set in stone or known to us (the book isn't out and 5-10 aren't written), it's clear that he's important. Brandon won't kill him unless there's a reason to. I think how much attention Brandon has given to the Maya Adolin scenes is a clue in that this is something we need to pay attention to. I don't know that Adolin will play an important part to the plot/story of Stormlight. I wholeheartedly believe that their interaction is important to the Cosmere and to the Nahel Bonds. Aluminum foil hat time. It could play into the Oathpact. I find the Recreance and the potentially broken Oathpact as good analogues. If Adolin can restore Maya, could that mean they could restore the Oathpact? (Regardless of whether or not they should).

 

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

I dislike the phrasing of Adolin talking to his blade being compared to the Edgedancer's Ideals. It was just a habit of his, much like his lucky charm.

I agree, although given the arguments above I think that him becoming an Edgedancer would be more because Maya is a cultivationspren rather than Adolin being a proto-Radiant Edgedance. I don't think it's much of a stretch that if they form a Nahel bond then the type of spren that Maya is may change.

[Honorless]

Would Maya even want to after being a Deadeyes for so long

 

[GudThymes]

8 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Would Maya even want to after being a Deadeyes for so long

 

I don't know if she has the capacity to decide right? Or even if she regains enough of herself to decide if it wouldn't just kill her again. What I'm most excited about is learning the actual "science" behind what's happening there.

[Honorless]

29 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

I don't know if she has the capacity to decide right? Or even if she regains enough of herself to decide if it wouldn't just kill her again. What I'm most excited about is learning the actual "science" behind what's happening there.

There is a way to safely break a Nahel Bond... 

Quote

Overlord Jebus

Can a spren willingly break their bond anytime between the First and Fifth Oath, with their Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible--

Overlord Jebus

Essentially committing suicide isn't it though--

Brandon Sanderson

I just ascribe to that question-- A spren could at any point break it. Can they break it safely? That's a different question.

Overlord Jebus

Can they break it safely? *laughs*

Brandon Sanderson

There are methods in place where it can be stopped. So yes it can be done. But once you've started into this, once you've chosen on both sides, it's a dangerous process. But yes it can be done, and it can be done safely.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

I would prefer that what is happening with Adolin & Maya be an indication for there being a way to bring back Deadeye spren, but Bonding them after so much trauma seems unlikely to me. Maybe in the back half. It could be used to convince the spren that are still angry or mistrustful to start Bonding again. Besides, I would prefer not every character become a Radiant

Edited July 31, 2020 by Honorless

[GudThymes]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Besides, I would prefer not every character become a Radiant

I agree with this, I don't think it really makes sense for everyone to be Radiant. I'm also still not sold on that's what would happen with Adolin and Maya (Mayolin or Adoya?). Normally the Spren fills the cracks of the mortal right, I don't see that as the scenario. This was mentioned earlier on in the thread, but if that's the case then how can we be sure that it would grant Adolin access to the surges? It could be something new to the cosmere.

[Realmatic Shadow]

My personal theory on what will occur is along the lines of, IF Adolin somehow brings Maya back/revives her, she will be fully capable of breaking off the deadblade bond with Adolin and surviving, albeit somewhat damaged still, but will decide to stay with Adolin (maybe with some convincing) under the typical blade bond, with the understanding that if they ever feel unsafe in the bond, they can break it freely and without explanation.
This could be a segue into teaching others how to live to the Ideals and further the current deadblade bond they hold to revive the spren of other deadblades, which maybe a tipping point in future events

Edited July 31, 2020 by Realmatic Shadow

[nomonthegreat]

I think it is also worthwhile to take note of dalinars unprecedented abilities that he displays at the end of OB. Things are working differently then when honor was alive. Under these circumstances things that may not have been possible under the original system may now become possible within the new system. Especially with the help of dalinar i think that adolin will revive Maya and become a radiant.

[Skaromas]

So I like this theory but I personally think that he will just become an edgedancer also, people on this thread have said that Adolin isn’t broken but 

Spoiler

I think he is, a bit otherwise I don’t know how he could have killed Sadeas that way and not regretted it withought being a little broken inside (in cosmere terms)

 

[GudThymes]

4 hours ago, Skaromas said:

So I like this theory but I personally think that he will just become an edgedancer also, people on this thread have said that Adolin isn’t broken but 

  Hide contents

I think he is, a bit otherwise I don’t know how he could have killed Sadeas that way and not regretted it withought being a little broken inside (in cosmere terms)

I mean Adolin is already used to killing. The entirety of Alethi culture for years has been centered around war, and Adolin is a dang good warrior. There are probably many threads debating the rationalization Adolin made in the moment and after that led to him killing Sadeas. However, I don't take it as fact that being able to kill Sadeas makes him broken inside. Many people in many places kill and justify it, that doesn't make them broken just that they have different morals. 

[GudThymes]

Following up again because I found some other info in another thread. 

Quote

AndrewStirlingMacDonald (paraphrased)

Is being a little bit crazy a prerequisite to becoming a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, so, for many of the cosmere magics to work, you have to... it has to get into the soul somehow. Right? Sometimes you ram it in by spiking someone else's soul and ripping off a piece and sticking it into yours. Sometimes, it just seeps in the cracks. Sometimes the bond allows it to kind of bypass some of this, but it's usually traumatic experience. So crazy is not required, but there's got to be a place for the magic to go, to get in.

Shadows of Self Boston signing (Oct. 14, 2015)

Do we think he meets those criteria?

[+Bzhydack]

44 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

I mean Adolin is already used to killing. The entirety of Alethi culture for years has been centered around war, and Adolin is a dang good warrior.

But in this culture (and every other) is very specific when, why, and how you are allowed to kill. What Adollin did, was something far, far away from codes and regulations. And this is what was bothering Adolin - that he kill without honor, like simple Bandit.

[rosin_the_beau]

My personal theory is that Adolin will become Dalinar's champion, but will not be a Radiant at that point or have access to an Honorblade. So it will be him and Maya against some super powerful evil person.

[GudThymes]

54 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

But in this culture (and every other) is very specific when, why, and how you are allowed to kill. What Adollin did, was something far, far away from codes and regulations. And this is what was bothering Adolin - that he kill without honor, like simple Bandit.

You're not wrong about the culture comment, although I don't think the Alethi really view what Adolin did as bad, illegal maybe, but it wasn't bad. Where are you getting that it's bothering Adolin? It's been a while since I've read the book and can't remember it specfically, but I also found this WoB:

Quote

Questioner

It kind of felt like you let Adolin off the hook for murder.

Brandon Sanderson

I would say no, I didn't. There will be more implications there, but what you've gotta understand is, Adolin does not view what he did as murder. His dad is uncertain if it is. And his dad is the ultimate judge of legality. There will be far-reaching implications of this, but kind of the way a society like that works, if you didn't get caught and you are the son of the king, then you get a little-- you know what I mean?

Questioner

Is it yet to be resolved?

Brandon Sanderson

Yet to have the full extent of its implications, how about that? I would say that you are perfectly right if you were to say he did something morally wrong. There are many who would agree with you; there are many who would disagree with you. And that disagreement is part of what the story is about.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

From this it's clear that Adolin does not think it's murder, while the morality is still up for debate. I'm just not convinced Adolin is "broken" (as what others in the thread were claiming) because of the murder of Sadeas.