Lirin is a Stoneward

[Karger]

I was reading this thread

 and it just makes to much sense.

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Stoneward oaths focus on team dynamics, on learning to work with others, and on being there for those who need them.

Lirin is currently at oath zero.  His arc in RoW will be about learning to accept others and work with them.  He is currently highly commuted but does not care for teamwork.  He acts too much like the lone crusader. 

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They put the interests of others before their own, and will not bend their Ideals for the sake of convenience.

Remind you of anyone?

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They tend to be known for their can-do attitudes and for taking on enormous projects (sometimes more than they can handle). However, most agree that the primary attribute of the Stonewards is their dependability. Though sometimes gregarious, they are never flighty. If a Stoneward is your friend, they will be there for you, and that is a core tenet of their Order—to be there when they are needed. Another key attribute is their ability to take a difficult situation with few resources and make something better of it. Though not known as inventors or creators, they are good at improvising solutions to problems in the moment.

Lirin is trying to keep everyone in a town from harm in a town currently occupied by enemy forces and sheltering the leader of the resistance.

I am hopping that Dalianr assigns him an impossible task.  Curing Taln and Ash or at least improving their condition.  Along the way Lirin will learn more about the radiants and will try and become more of a team player.

[Vambram]

I can see that happening as well. The biggest thing about Lirin that would prevent him from becoming a Stoneward is his personal code of pacifism. 

[Michael Portz]

5 hours ago, Vambram said:

I can see that happening as well. The biggest thing about Lirin that would prevent him from becoming a Stoneward is his personal code of pacifism. 

I do not think pacifism automatically contradicts any of the Nahel Bond oaths.

It will be a lot more work, for sure, but if anybody can pull this stunt it is Lirin.

 

[Honorless]

Stoneward spren are still angry at humanity for the Recreance, so not yet.

[LordTheodore]

43 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Stoneward spren are still angry at humanity for the Recreance, so not yet.

How do we know that??

Is it an assumption based on on the fact that none have bonded radiants as far as we know or has it been confirmed by a WOB or in one of the cosmere books

[Neturo]

It would be interesting to know, at the height of the age of Radiants, how common it was for a Spren to bond a human. Is it 1 in 100 humans, 1 in a 1,000  or 1 in 100,000

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, LordTheodore said:

How do we know that??

Is it an assumption based on on the fact that none have bonded radiants as far as we know or has it been confirmed by a WOB or in one of the cosmere books

OB, in Shadesmar, the Ashspren & the Stoneward spren were hostile to humans

[LordTheodore]

31 minutes ago, Honorless said:

OB, in Shadesmar, the Ashspren & the Stoneward spren were hostile to humans

Which chapter. I just reread the one in celebrant and only the ashspren were hostile.

[Honorless]

3 minutes ago, LordTheodore said:

Which chapter. I just reread the one in celebrant and only the ashspren were hostile.

Two types of spren are described, one whose extremities flake off into ashes and other stony with cracks running through, both are described as hostile

[LordTheodore]

"There were other spren with skin like cracked stone, molten light shining from within. Still others had skin the color of old white ashes—and when Kaladin saw one of these point toward something, the skin stretching at the joint of his arm disintegrated and blew away, revealing the joint and knobs of the humerus. The skin quickly regrew."

“It doesn’t happen often,” Syl said as they passed a group of the ash-colored spren sitting around a table and watching the crowds. They eyed the humans with overt hostility, and one flicked fingers toward Kaladin.

 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Two types of spren are described, one whose extremities flake off into ashes and other stony with cracks running through, both are described as hostile

They met that sailor who was nice to humans.

11 hours ago, Vambram said:

I can see that happening as well. The biggest thing about Lirin that would prevent him from becoming a Stoneward is his personal code of pacifism. 

I doubt stonewards have to attack anyone.

[Pathfinder]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

I doubt stonewards have to attack anyone.

i think that is a common misunderstanding on the part of people. In the stoneward description they mention members tend to fight. However people forget people all assume windrunners only fight yet Syl's prior knight largely stayed away from the battlefield. So just because a certain type of spren may tend to pick the martially inclined does not mean pacifists would be excluded. Just their path through the oaths would be unique to a degree. I personally maintain a pacifist could successfully be a member of any order and fully advance through all the oaths regardless the orders dominant leanings.

[SirNoSell]

I could see this definitely happening.

For how stubborn both of them are, Kaladin and Lirin are so alike plus it helps that Stonewards and Windrunners are both sides of the same coin depending on how you look at it. 

While were on the topic of Kal's family and radiants, what do you guys think of Hesina being an Edgedancer:

• She was of somewhat noble birth but she didn't care that her soon to be husband was of lesser status.
• She helps assist her husband in some ways with his work as well as takes care of the townspeople when she can by cleaning houses and removing crem.
• Edgedancers liked to live in towns to provide aid. This is important as she was adamant about remaining in Hearthstone like her husband when Roshone kicked up a fuss.
• She speaks eloquently and expects her son to do the same, she has a level of refinement something Edgedancers display.

EDIT: Also, Edgedancers were the most religious of all the orders. Something Hesina is also quite fervent about.

Edited July 29, 2020 by BrightLordSwageas

[Karger]

13 minutes ago, BrightLordSwageas said:

While were on the topic of Kal's family and radiants, what do you guys think of Hesina being an Edgedancer:

It would certainly add a fun dynamic to her marriage.  O sure honey I will simply magically tap this guy and thus do better then you can with a lifetime of training.

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

They met that sailor who was nice to humans.

There are individuals within every group

Stoneward spren seem like they'd be stubborn and hold a grudge for long

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

Stoneward spren seem like they'd be stubborn and hold a grudge for long

Isn't being a stoneward also about accepting the flaws of others and being a team player?

[Honorless]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Isn't being a stoneward also about accepting the flaws of others and being a team player?

Look at Spark & Malata vs the Dustbringer Ideals

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

Look at Spark & Malata vs the Dustbringer Ideals

I don't think they are uncontrolled just angry.  They are also only of the third ideal.

[Honorless]

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think they are uncontrolled just angry. They are also only of the third ideal.

They are lacking in self control. "as long as it allows him to break things". And while they need the Bond in the Physical to be fully cognizant and also get more human, they chose to Bond Malata for revenge on the humans

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

They are lacking in self control. "as long as it allows him to break things". And while they need the Bond in the Physical to be fully cognizant and also get more human, they chose to Bond Malata for revenge on the humans

Their goals are destructive but they don't lack control.  Instead they work with the diagram.

[dgreene196]

Funny - if I had to put Lirin in a Radiant category, I'd probably go with Truthwatcher:

• He'd continue to be able to heal, though I bet he'd save Stormlight for only the worst injuries and illnesses
• He'd study and develop healing fabrials
• His overarching Truth would seek to define the world in teams of health and peace

[Karger]

I just took the quiz imputing answers based on what I thought was right for Lirin.  He has a very high aptitude with multiple orders in the 65-75 range.  Those always included Elsecaller, Skybreaker, Windrunner, and Stoneward.

[+Bzhydack]

Lirin match perfectly as Stoneward. His stong moral code, stubbornes, ability to improvization and helpfullness are core goals of this order. He also match as man, who dont create many, but can solve problems in flight. Only drawback is, Stonewards were described as Radiants Finest Soldiers, and he is total opposit, but I think this paradoxally strenghten theory - Brandon likes to play on stereothypes, so making surgeon-pacifist member of clearly military-oriented Order is his style.

[+Child of Hodor]

28 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Lirin match perfectly as Stoneward. His stong moral code, stubbornes, ability to improvization and helpfullness are core goals of this order. He also match as man, who dont create many, but can solve problems in flight. Only drawback is, Stonewards were described as Radiants Finest Soldiers, and he is total opposit, but I think this paradoxally strenghten theory - Brandon likes to play on stereothypes, so making surgeon-pacifist member of clearly military-oriented Order is his style.

It would be ironic for him to get the most front line soldier-oriented one. Since I don't really like Lirin I might enjoy that. 

The way he was so crestfallen when Dalinar was like "Edgedancers can heal by magic. Your services are not required" got to me though. I wouldn't mind if he got Truthwatcher and could use progression. 

 

[Honorless]

7 hours ago, Karger said:

Their goals are destructive but they don't lack control.  Instead they work with the diagram.

The Diagram has a "higher purpose", they don't, according to Malata, as long as they get revenge & a chance to break things