[RoW] Lirin's Mentality

[*{kara}*]

Hello! I'm a lurker who joined to talk about rhythm of war--so let's talk! Based on the chapters from RoW so far, Lirin will be showing up more, and I sense that it will be handy to get to know him. What do y'all think about Lirin's stance on pacifism, authority, and parenting? What made him the way that he is? Is he disappointed that Kaladin's a Knight Radiant, or only that he is a soldier?

The way he pushed Kal to be a surgeon--and his imagined future from RoW chapter 1, with Kaladin AND Tien as surgeons by his side--is a little odd to me. Does he think that the only acceptable profession for his sons was to follow in his footsteps? I'm wondering if by forcing/expecting Kaladin to live by his "code of surgeons" he overstepped his role as a father? (This mirrors one of Dalinar and Adolin's conflicts in WoK, now that I think about it XD)

Honestly, his disappointment in Kaladin's fighting is not doing Kaladin's mental health any favors. But also, I think that part of Kaladin's current and future depression comes from his unresolved conflict in Kholinar--there are good people on both sides, and he has to kill them--so maybe Lirin's not as culpable as I'm implying.

Basically, Lirin is a very complex and interesting dude that I'm very excited to read about. Anyone agree? Or do you think his new spotlight will end in death?  ',:-)

[Karger]

1 hour ago, KaratheEdgedancer said:

The way he pushed Kal to be a surgeon--and his imagined future from RoW chapter 1, with Kaladin AND Tien as surgeons by his side--is a little odd to me. Does he think that the only acceptable profession for his sons was to follow in his footsteps?

Lirin clearly does not think highly of people who engage in violence for any reason.  He might have been disappointed if Kaladin had become an ardent or stormward but I doubt he would have objected.  Lirin saw early on that Kaladin had a knack for surgery.  He recognized that Kaladin had a capacity to save lives beyond his own.  Considering saving people's lives is what Lirin devoted his life to he must have been incredibly thankful.  However in his view Kaladin threw that all away.  It is not just that he did not live up to Lirin's expectations but they are now (as Lirin sees it) on opposite sides of a conflict.  Kaladin is working directly against the goals of his father.  He is killing the people Lirin is trying to save.  I don't doubt that Lirin loves Kaladin unconditionally but in choosing a life of killing Kaladin has, as far as Lirin is concerned betrayed his ideals.  Lirin is also understandably worried about Kaladin.  He is well aware of the effects of trauma.  Humans are not built to kill people.  So not only is Kaladin working against Lirin but Litin is also worried about what Kaladin might do and is doing to himself.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Karger

[*{kara}*]

I like how you put that; they are on opposite sides of Lirin's war against death. It will be interesting to see how their relationship plays out if they end up in a battle situation again.

The really curious part about Lirin's dream was having Tien as a surgeon. Tien had none of the natural talent or interest for it like Kal did. I wonder if Lirin has changed how he remembers Tien to be more like the son he wanted.

[Karger]

12 hours ago, KaratheEdgedancer said:

The really curious part about Lirin's dream was having Tien as a surgeon. Tien had none of the natural talent or interest for it like Kal did. I wonder if Lirin has changed how he remembers Tien to be more like the son he wanted.

Lirin hoped Tien would pick it up as a way of bringing him into the family business and because he needed an apprentice but when Tien had no aptitude Lirin got him into a different profession.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Karger