What's that Fused doing?

[Lightspine]

In the most recent chapters, we just saw that "teleporting" Fused doing some extremely weird stuff. His method of movement is clearly different from the instances of Transportation we have already seen. Just a short summary of differences:

• No rotating column of light (seen with Oathgates and WoR epilogue)
• Leaves a crumbling body behind
• The Fused can't take its clothing or possessions with it.

It's clear that it isn't just popping back and forth from the Cognitive Realm. When people enter the Cognitive, they are able to take their body with them as well as their possessions. (WoB spoilered for length):

Spoiler

Bromo_Sapien

When somebody travels into the Cognitive Realm, what happens to their physical self? To their body? Like Elsecalling or through a Shardpool?

Brandon Sanderson

Well it depends on the way they’re doing it. The two ways you’ve mentioned transport the physical body. It’s actually creating a rift and slipping them through. But there are other ways that you kind of peek in, where your body’s saying it’s a little more astral projection-y in those cases.

Bromo_Sapien

So their physical self would also be in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Bromo_Sapien

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Which is weird.

Bromo_Sapien

As opposed to somebody like Kelsier who died and no longer has a physical self.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, right. Or when Shallan is Soulcasting and peeking in, and things like this. It can still be dangerous, because what’s happening is that little soul bubble there that’s manifesting into a version of your soul and then things can get at it in different ways and stuff. So... But yes, going in physically means you just pop between realms, and yeah, yeah…

Bromo_Sapien

And when they leave the Cognitive Realm their Physical self just leaves the Cognitive Realm the same...

Brandon Sanderson

Yep, mhm, yep.

Bromo_Sapien

Perfect.

Brandon Sanderson

Basically you’re transferring into Investiture and popping out of Investiture, so...

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

Rather, the fact that the Fused forms a new body with every appearance is more reminiscent of the principle behind stormlight/feruchemical gold healing; using investure to change your body to match your perception of self. It could also be related to what @Scriptorian points out here.

First of all, however, I think I actually have an explanation for what's going on with that crumbling body. It would be one thing if the body left behind were flesh and blood, but this one turns to soft stone (crem?) and then disintegrates away. We see that stuff like bodies can change the material they are composed of through Soulcasting, which alters the cognitive aspect of objects and has repercussions in the Physical Realm. But what would happen if an object (or body) somehow had its cognitive Identity ripped away? All matter in the Cosmere must have a cognitive aspect born from how it is perceived by sentient beings, so I believe that an object that loses its identity would fade away. But first, its appearance in the Physical Realm would be influenced by perception. And on Roshar, I think that the general consensus is that crem is the most bland, boring, nothing stuff in existence. Thus, when something on Roshar has a cognitive aspect of "nothing," perception leads to it manifesting as crem.

Thus, the Fused is operating by moving its cognitive self independently from its physical self, thus robbing its physical body of a cognitive aspect. I think whatever surge it's using—most likely Transportation, but maybe we're getting tricked—is critical to this. Here is my proposal on the sequence of events:

First, the Fused uses Transportation to create a "mini perpendicularity" and moves its cognitive shadow into the Physical Realm. It moves as a spren can, since spren and cognitive shadows are pretty much the same thing realmatically speaking, and then creates another "mini perpendicularity" to re-enter the Cognitive Realm. (Note: in case you're confused, spren like Syl and windspren are completely in the Physical Realm and can fly around anyway) Since it does not perceive itself as "dead," the physical reflection of its cognitive aspect manifests, forming a body. Basically, the opposite of Jasnah transferring her physical self into the Cognitive Realm and back.

I hope my theory doesn't seem too ridiculous or overly complicated. Maybe there's a simpler explanation for what's going on here!

Edited July 28, 2020 by Lightspine

[Karger]

I think he is actually moving his spiritual self around.  That is why you feel a connection to healing or soulcasting.   What he is doing is moving his soul through the spiritual realm and then "healing" so that his body follows suit matching a physical reality to the underlying truth.

[Innovation]

And he moves his soul through the Spiritual realm using Transportation? I guess that could be possible. 

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, Innovation said:

And he moves his soul through the Spiritual realm using Transportation? I guess that could be possible. 

While in the spiritual realm all places are one.  You really just have to go there and come back.

[Lightspine]

23 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think he is actually moving his spiritual self around.  That is why you feel a connection to healing or soulcasting.   What he is doing is moving his soul through the spiritual realm and then "healing" so that his body follows suit matching a physical reality to the underlying truth.

That makes sense when it comes to the body-forming bit, but I'm a bit confused by what it means to "move" the spiritual self. As you said, all places (and times too) are one in the Spiritual realm, and I don't think we've actually ever seen an instance of such movement. Also, shouldn't this allow for more instantaneous movement? If the Fused is moving spiritually, distances shouldn't matter and I don't see why Kaladin would outspeed him with Lashings. If anything, I think this might better explain Oathgates than the Fused.

[Karger]

Just now, Lightspine said:

That makes sense when it comes to the body-forming bit, but I'm a bit confused by what it means to "move" the spiritual self

So the spiritual self exists in another realm.  He transitions his awareness to that plane and then transitions it back to somewhere else in the physical.  For a brief moment he is disembodied and has to heal to make the body match what the soul is doing.  The soul transition itself is more or less instantaneous it just takes the physical world a few seconds to catch up with that.

[Lightspine]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

So the spiritual self exists in another realm.  He transitions his awareness to that plane and then transitions it back to somewhere else in the physical.  For a brief moment he is disembodied and has to heal to make the body match what the soul is doing.  The soul transition itself is more or less instantaneous it just takes the physical world a few seconds to catch up with that.

I see, that makes a lot more sense than how I originally interpreted you. However, I do still think the process you describe would make distance irrelevant: moving a hundred meters shouldn't take any longer than moving ten. This is not the impression I got from the description:

Quote

Indeed, a few minutes later, the red-violet light returned. Kaladin Lashed himself directly away from the light, picking up speed. Air became a roar around him, and by the fifth Lashing, he was fast enough that the red light couldn’t keep up, and dwindled behind.

In addition, I don't see why your explanation would involve the "red-violet light" zipping around at all. Especially since it doesn't seem to be simply moving in a straight line between locations:

Quote

Before he could catch his breath, however, a red-violet light streaked through the fog below, looping about itself and zipping up behind Kaladin.

 

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Lightspine said:

I see, that makes a lot more sense than how I originally interpreted you. However, I do still think the process you describe would make distance irrelevant: moving a hundred meters shouldn't take any longer than moving ten. This is not the impression I got from the description:

I might be wrong but what I think was happening was that the red light could not really decide where to go.  It was trying to match speeds and locations with something moving very quickly.  Imagine trying to intercept someone going at 80 miles per hour.

[Gilphon]

So I feel reasonably confident that what he's doing is some form of Transportation, in any case. Which is a powers we really don't have a good understanding of; Jasnah's only used it a few times and doesn't seem to be all that good with it.

[Honorless]

That red-violet light is most likely the Fused in their spren form, recreating their body again in a new position via their sDNA but why would the previous body be crumbling?

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Honorless said:

That red-violet light is most likely the Fused in their spren form, recreating their body again in a new position via their sDNA but why would the previous body be crumbling?

Recycling? He is partially using it up for fuel.

[Honorless]

20 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

So I feel reasonably confident that what he's doing is some form of Transportation, in any case. Which is a powers we really don't have a good understanding of; Jasnah's only used it a few times and doesn't seem to be all that good with it.

Such a crude approximation of the Surge of Transportation, tch!

 

How long can the Fused sustain themselves in that spren form I wonder? Presumably, this Fused too stole a body from a Parshendi... but if so why not just recreate their body on their own without taking over another's (presuming that they did)?

Edited July 28, 2020 by Honorless

[Lightspine]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

I might be wrong but what I think was happening was that the red light could not really decide where to go.  It was trying to match speeds and locations with something moving very quickly.  Imagine trying to intercept someone going at 80 miles per hour.

I guess that could make sense, even it's not my intuitive interpretation of what's going on.

3 minutes ago, Honorless said:

That red-violet light is most likely the Fused in their spren form, recreating their body again in a new position via their sDNA but why would the previous body be crumbling?

That's essentially what my theory is saying, although I'm claiming Transportation is needed to get their "spren form"/cognitive shadow into the Physical Realm. My explanation for the body crumbling is that this process separates the cognitive shadow, which is the Fused's cognitive aspect, from their physical body. Sorry if that wasn't clear!

[SanderFan69]

It doesn't seem like the fused gravitation works the same way as windrunner gravitation so it wouldn't surprise me if the way elsecallers and willshapers use transportation will be different than this.

[+Child of Hodor]

50 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think he is actually moving his spiritual self around.  That is why you feel a connection to healing or soulcasting.   What he is doing is moving his soul through the spiritual realm and then "healing" so that his body follows suit matching a physical reality to the underlying truth.

I think he's soulcasting. It's like he breaks down his current body, which is why it crumbles to ash instead of being a flesh corpse, zips around as just a Cognitive Shadow because he's much faster, then soulcasts a new body. 

When I think transportation surge I think warping around like the Oathgates or entering the cognitive realm with your body like Jasnah. This guy is shedding weight to sprint as a spirit. But he still has to travel the distance like a spren would we see his red/violet ribbon of light moving.  

[Lightspine]

1 minute ago, Child of Hodor said:

I think he's soulcasting. It's like he breaks down his current body, which is why it crumbles to ash instead of being a flesh corpse, zips around as just a Cognitive Shadow because he's much faster, then soulcasts a new body. 

 

That's a really cool idea, and I think it's totally possible that the crumbling body is being soulcasted. However, I don't think they're soulcasting the new body. First of all, that would allow for clothes (although not invested spheres, I guess). More importantly though, I think soulcasting a biologically functional body is kind of impossibly difficult. It's just too intricate, and far beyond the abilities of any soulcasters we've ever seen. So, even if they're soulcasting, the new body is probably being formed by their coginitive or spiritual aspects being reflected into the Physical.

[Karger]

6 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I think he's soulcasting. It's like he breaks down his current body, which is why it crumbles to ash instead of being a flesh corpse, zips around as just a Cognitive Shadow because he's much faster, then soulcasts a new body. 

If they can soulcast new bodies whenever they want then why not just make them instead of killing singers?

[Honorless]

3 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I'm claiming Transportation is needed to get their "spren form"/cognitive shadow into the Physical Realm. My explanation for the body crumbling is that this process separates the cognitive shadow, which is the Fused's cognitive aspect, from their physical body.

It's a good theory! Yanking away Identity from the previous body might be what's causing the crumbling effect.

A few musings: spren can transition into the Physical realm somehow, including Voidspren. They could presumably just sustain themselves in the Physical purely on Voidlight. Are Fused partially in the Cognitive even while inhabiting a Parshendi body via their Gemheart?

[Gilphon]

So we've seen this 'crumble into dust' effect in two other places in the past, to my recollection:

• When you regrow Shardplate, the scattered old bits collapse into dust to be replaced by the new bits you're growing, so you don't have to go around picking up every piece you lost. 
• When Wyndle moves, he grows a new piece of himself and the trail behind him collapses into dust. The overall amount of Wyndle present is still the same, but he's moving by growing rather locating normally.

I'm not sure what exactly is going on, but I feel confident that the principle behind this Fused's powers are the same. Teleportation via creating a new body in a new location and the old you crumbling into nothing.

[Lightspine]

2 minutes ago, Honorless said:

They could presumably just sustain themselves in the Physical purely on Voidlight.

Thanks for the praise! I'm just a little confused by what you mean here. We haven't seen spren needing investure to remain in the Physical Realm once they're already there, have we?

[+Child of Hodor]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

If they can soulcast new bodies whenever they want then why not just make them instead of killing singers?

The Fused only get one Surge each. Not all have this ability. This guy might need to take over a Singer to get a body first. Once it's his he can break it down and remake it, but he can't make a living body out of component parts. I don't know. 

10 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

• When you regrow Shardplate, the scattered old bits collapse into dust to be replaced by the new bits you're growing, so you don't have to go around picking up every piece you lost. 
• When Wyndle moves, he grows a new piece of himself and the trail behind him collapses into dust. The overall amount of Wyndle present is still the same, but he's moving by growing rather locating normally.

I'm not sure what exactly is going on, but I feel confident that the principle behind this Fused's powers are the same. Teleportation via creating a new body in a new location and the old you crumbling into nothing.

Good pull with the Spren crumbling!

He's not teleporting though he's just moving around like Syl does then creating a new body. I'm not sure he always knows his destination before he leaves the first body. He's zigging and zagging to get behind Kaladin when Kaladin is in the air trying to dodge. 

Later the red light chases him but can't keep up. He's not going from point A to point B he's transforming and chasing then turning physical when he catches up. This could be a really weird transportation, but I lean towards soulcasting.

Quote

 

" and something shot out of the body—a small line of red-violet light like a spren. That line of light darted to Kaladin in the blink of an eye, then it expanded to re-form the shape of the Fused with a sound like stretching leather mixed with grinding stone."

 "red-violet light streaked through the fog below, looping about itself and zipping up behind Kaladin."

"the red-violet light returned. Kaladin Lashed himself directly away from the light, picking up speed. Air became a roar around him, and by the fifth Lashing, he was fast enough that the red light couldn’t keep up, and dwindled behind.

 

 

[Pathfinder]

Semi Tinfoil theory:

Everything is made up of investiture just in various stages. Solid, liquid, gas, investiture (as per Brandon). So when transporting, the individual is converted into investiture state of matter and travels through the spiritual realm. Once the destination is reached, investiture is converted back into physical form. Since fused cannot use investiture in the same extent as radiants (see windrunners being able to go faster and change directions sharper than fused), then the conversion is not complete leaving a "shell" behind, and is also why the jump is a short distance, limited to three jumps at a time, and a streak is visible. At least that is my thoughts at this stage.  

[Honorless]

20 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

We haven't seen spren needing investure to remain in the Physical Realm once they're already there, have we?

But usually said spren were attracted by some natural phenomenon or emotion. Plus, in OB the spren did seem to perk up when the Highstorm passed. I'm guessing that spren need some Investiture for their upkeep. But most likely, the Voidlight is just going towards constructing the new bodies. I'm just throwing a wide net

[Karger]

7 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

The Fused only get one Surge each. Not all have this ability. This guy might need to take over a Singer to get a body first. Once it's his he can break it down and remake it, but he can't make a living body out of component parts. I don't know. 

But breaking things down and remaking is not the surge of transformation...

32 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

When you regrow Shardplate, the scattered old bits collapse into dust to be replaced by the new bits you're growing, so you don't have to go around picking up every piece you lost. 

Good parallel.  I wonder if people tried this to send messages during pre spanreed eras.  I think it is similar to healing making the physical match the spiritual. 

[+Child of Hodor]

Just now, Karger said:

But breaking things down and remaking is not the surge of transformation...

Good parallel.  I wonder if people tried this to send messages during pre spanreed eras.  I think it is similar to healing making the physical match the spiritual. 

It's not Transportation Regrowth Gravitation Adhesion Tension ...