RoW Chapter 2 & 3 Discussion

[+Oltux72]

9 hours ago, Gilphon said:

But also- Shallan's plotline is apparently about Iaiai Sadeas and the Sons of Honor, both of which are distinctly c-list antagonists at this point. So I find myself hoping that we move through the storyline pretty quickly.

I guess the KRs are suspecting a traitor in their midst but are looking in the wrong circles.

[Aon Tia]

Just wondering.....

Navani said that Isasik is gone on a cartography mission to map the eastern shattered plains. I think the only way to accomplish this is if he is accompanied by windrunners. Also what if Rlain is also part of the expedition. Is he going to find the surviving listeners out there somewhere

[HoidsRock]

3 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Restares was his second guess, not Roshone. 
 

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Restares

Thank you!  Complete and utter brain freeze!  I meant Restares the entire time!  I will edit.

[Goatbringer]

18 hours ago, Cheat Commando said:

Maybe Moash provided a description of them that was then communicated to all the Fused.

It would make sense, especially if Moash knew where Kaladin lived and sparred with Roshone, etc. He does know that, right? Kaladin opened up to him about that back in Book 2? Am I making this up for myself? 

[+Oltux72]

5 minutes ago, Goatbringer said:

It would make sense, especially if Moash knew where Kaladin lived and sparred with Roshone, etc. He does know that, right? Kaladin opened up to him about that back in Book 2? Am I making this up for myself? 

This is all plausible, but explains only a part of the issue. You need to explain why a brandnew type of Fused appeared within hours of Kaladin at the very day the Mink came into town. Just knowing who Kaladin is, whence he stems and how he looks is the smaller part of the problem.

[+Child of Hodor]

11 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

This is all plausible, but explains only a part of the issue. You need to explain why a brandnew type of Fused appeared within hours of Kaladin at the very day the Mink came into town. Just knowing who Kaladin is, whence he stems and how he looks is the smaller part of the problem.

They definitely have spies in their midst. The dustbringer member of the diagram for one and a good possibility more have been recruited to either the Diagram or Odium directly in the last year one way or another. 

Moash was in Alethkar last we saw him and he can fly now, so he could  have been close enough to get ther when this Fused teleported away looking for reinforcements. Moash getting his revenge of Roshone and surrendering seems like a pre-determined plan though. 

[book.spren]

2 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Moash was in Alethkar last we saw him and he can fly now, so he could  have been close enough to get ther when this Fused teleported away looking for reinforcements. Moash getting his revenge of Roshone and surrendering seems like a pre-determined plan though. 

Definitely seems pre-determined. I think Moash has some kind of plan to get into Urithiru for nefarious purposes and what better way to do this than to surrender and just be taken there. (I may be the only one but I totally compare Moash's surrender to the Joker's surrender in the Lego Batman movie.) 

[LordTheodore]

20 minutes ago, book.spren said:

Definitely seems pre-determined. I think Moash has some kind of plan to get into Urithiru for nefarious purposes and what better way to do this than to surrender and just be taken there. (I may be the only one but I totally compare Moash's surrender to the Joker's surrender in the Lego Batman movie.) 

Work with one of the fused who has access to the lightweaving surge. Or just fly in pretending to be a windrunner.

[Wyndle88]

Last we heard Kaladin's ex gf back from Amaram' army was in the same town as the Mink was in OB. I wonder if she is one of the refugees.

[Govir]

On 7/28/2020 at 9:57 AM, Nathrangking said:

Lift don't ever change.

She tried that. It didn’t work out for her.

[Karger]

4 hours ago, HoidsRock said:

Was Gavilar not really a member but used them for his own ends?

This is the only option that really makes sense to me.  Gavilar is a master of men.  He could read Amaram like a book.  He knows that A might make a useful tool but I doubt he trusted the guy any farther then I want to kick him.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Karger

[HoidsRock]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

This is the only option that really makes sense to me.  Gavilar is a master of men.  He could read Amaram like a book.  He knows that A might make a useful tool but I doubt he trusted the guy any farther then I want to kick him.

 

 

It definitely would explain the tension between Restares and Gavilar, particularly if the former is the truest of true believers.  But then it makes Gavilar an even lower form of crem for forcing Jasnah to marry Amaram. (not saying Gavilar wouldn't do it; the side of him we see in this prologue is someone who clearly feels justified in whatever actions they need to take).

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, HoidsRock said:

It definitely would explain the tension between Restares and Gavilar, particularly if the former is the truest of true believers.  But then it makes Gavilar an even lower form of crem for forcing Jasnah to marry Amaram. (not saying Gavilar wouldn't do it; the side of him we see in this prologue is someone who clearly feels justified in whatever actions they need to take).

I agree that making Jasnah marry Amaram was terrible but the fact that the guy was an idiot that Gavilar kept around to manipulate does not really make it much worse IMO.  As to Restares being a "true believer" I am not biting.  He might be convinced that he is but I think he is doing it for the wrong reasons.

[+Harrycrapper]

3 hours ago, book.spren said:

Definitely seems pre-determined. I think Moash has some kind of plan to get into Urithiru for nefarious purposes and what better way to do this than to surrender and just be taken there. (I may be the only one but I totally compare Moash's surrender to the Joker's surrender in the Lego Batman movie.) 

 Ironically I thought of the Joker in The Dark Knight, Loki in the first Avengers movie, Luke did it twice in Return of the Jedi,and Rey did it in The Last Jedi. Letting yourself get taken prisoner to get inside your enemies stronghold is a common tactic.

[Innovation]

Even Vasher did it. Classic trick. 

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, HoidsRock said:

But then it makes Gavilar an even lower form of crem for forcing Jasnah to marry Amaram.

How sure are we that Amaram was and is a true believer?

53 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Even Vasher did it. Classic trick. 

Evil Overlord List:

#10: I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum — a small hotel well outside my borders will work just as well.

[HoidsRock]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

How sure are we that Amaram was and is a true believer?

 

I've argued in the past that I think he was, at he was in WOR.  Certainly, the one POV we get from him seems to imply that he believed in the cause.  Don't get me wrong, I think he was a narcissist with delusions of grandeur and I agree that Gavilar could easily manipulate him. 

Now "true believer" needs defining of course.  I'm using in the most non-cynical sense that when Amaram says it, he believes it in that very moment even if he stops believing it later on (i.e. not I am talking about sincerity of belief and not depth of belief).  The only thing Amaram believes with any depth is that Amaram is great!

[Govir]

 

On 7/28/2020 at 10:37 AM, Pagerunner said:

Kalalyn happened and ended offscreen. Just enough of a reminder to the readers of Kaladin's romantic issues for Laral to stroll back into his life.

Do you mean Tarah?

 

On 7/28/2020 at 11:30 AM, Matrim's Dice said:

Oh yeah, and Venli is the MC of the book, it's her book

I don't think she's the MC of the book, it's just that the book has her flashbacks. Yes, the last three books have also had the Flashback character be the MC, but I don't think it's a set in (gem)stone.

 

On 7/28/2020 at 2:12 PM, Honorless said:

Why would the Fused's body crumble though

the only similar looking phenomenon I can think of is Wyndle's crystals

I was thinking of the ashspren we saw in Celebrant. A lot of people are thinking this Fused is using Transportation, but what if the Fused is somehow using the destructive aspect of the Dustbringers, temporarily becoming a spren that can fly, then "healing" itself via the Voidlight it's holding? This would explain why they can't carry anything that isn't "them". It wouldn't explain why they aren't using it offensively though.

 

17 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

I am thinking that the aluminum is used on a portion of the fabrials at once, which are reset, then rotated to a different set. So if you need 70 fabrials to lift the ship, I'd have 100, and have them split into 5 groups of 20, each offset in their starting point by 1/5th the overall displacement. Once the first group reaches max displacement, place aluminum over those ones, then move them back to the start, then remove the aluminum. Cycle through repeatedly. 

I like this idea. You could also have the gems in the same housing. I'm picturing an aluminum box that is divided in two, with an aluminum lid that slides to only cover one side at a time. The uncovered side are the ones that are actively being connected, and then the other side would have a reverse polarity. This design would be more efficient than two separate groups because moving one side would "reset" the other side with the same action.

 

[Mat]

1 minute ago, Govir said:

I don't think she's the MC of the book, it's just that the book has her flashbacks. Yes, the last three books have also had the Flashback character be the MC, but I don't think it's a set in (gem)stone.

I mean, traditionally the flashback character is the MC, with viewpoints in every part, and we've already seen Part One has Venli as a viewpoint character. I believe Brandon has called Rhythm of War 'her book', her referring to Venli. And we all know how much Brandon likes symmetry in books, especially in SA . But true nonetheless. 

[+Child of Hodor]

39 minutes ago, HoidsRock said:

I've argued in the past that I think he was, at he was in WOR.  Certainly, the one POV we get from him seems to imply that he believed in the cause.  Don't get me wrong, I think he was a narcissist with delusions of grandeur and I agree that Gavilar could easily manipulate him. 

Now "true believer" needs defining of course.  I'm using in the most non-cynical sense that when Amaram says it, he believes it in that very moment even if he stops believing it later on (i.e. not I am talking about sincerity of belief and not depth of belief).  The only thing Amaram believes with any depth is that Amaram is great!

Yeah, he was a believer and that's part of how Odium got to him. He revered Heralds and then found out all but one quit.  

In his PoV he at the end of WoR he seems committed "The Sons of Honor had, at long last, achieved their goal. Gavilar would be proud."

His goal, was to bring back the Heralds by bringing back their enemies. The Heralds were there the whole time and we see in the RoW prologue that Gavilar knew it too. 

He made by choices, murdering and enslaving for power, and justified it "for the greater good". This also made him easier for Odium to manipulate. 

[Diomedes]

3 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

Ironically I thought of the Joker in The Dark Knight, Loki in the first Avengers movie, Luke did it twice in Return of the Jedi,and Rey did it in The Last Jedi. Letting yourself get taken prisoner to get inside your enemies stronghold is a common tactic.

I love that you guys quote pop culture for something being a common tactic  . 

That being said I think that would be a bit too cheezy. There should be a trial for Moash considering he murdered Elokhar. Regicide should be punishable by death. A court martial scene were all the members of Bridge Four accuse Moash would be awsome. Maybe Odium wants to weeken Dalinars and Jasnahs position by having Moash revealing secrets in this public kingkiller trial.  

[+Harrycrapper]

10 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

I love that you guys quote pop culture for something being a common tactic  . 

That being said I think that would be a bit too cheezy. There should be a trial for Moash considering he murdered Elokhar. Regicide should be punishable by death. A court martial scene were all the members of Bridge Four accuse Moash would be awsome. Maybe Odium wants to weeken Dalinars and Jasnahs position by having Moash revealing secrets in this public kingkiller trial.  

I mean we're pretty close to the point where Stormlight Archive is pop culture. It even has it's own meme subreddit already. 

[Nymeros]

I didnt notice that Kaladin and Lyn had hooked up.......weird. I wouldnt expect Kaladin to engage with a subordinate, geesh.

[Kered]

11 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

I didnt notice that Kaladin and Lyn had hooked up.......weird. I wouldnt expect Kaladin to engage with a subordinate, geesh.

I sense Syl peer pressure. Totally down for that flashback. 

[Harbour]

I honestly immediately got the vibe in OB that Skar and Lyn gonna date. Wouldnt be surprised if they will at some point. So i was surprised this happened with Kaladin.

I honestly can hardly imagine him walking around with the girl. He didnt strike me as sexually abstract as Jasnah, but he was focused on war, assassinations and getting out of crem for 99% of screen time so its very hard to get used to him walking around with the girl, hugging her and kissing. He probably mostly talked about how bad his life was and how he needed to save a couple lives today. 

That problem was successfully solved with time skip though. The war wont war itself.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Harbour