RoW Chapter 2 & 3 Discussion

[+Child of Hodor]

Rereading how the Fourth Bridge works ...  there is so much that could go wrong.

They need to relay instructions to Urithiru AND the Shattered plains to change vertical & horizontal direction. 

They can’t steer or move forward without the Shattered Plains team and they can’t change elevation without the Urithiru team.

The Urithiru team that’s just lowering a lattice off the plateau cliff outside of Urithiru. 

If they are on a mission and Urithiru is attacked let’s say the ropes holding the lattice are cut and it drops ... the fourth bridge would go waaaay up really fast and there would be now way to get it down. 

What happens if the lattice falls and tumbles end over end? Will the ship flip?

[Karger]

28 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Quick aside. How do I do those nested quotes to show what you were quoting?

You highlight a specific line of text and then press the quote pop up button.

16 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

What happens if the lattice falls and tumbles end over end? Will the ship flip?

Feel free to make suggestions in my thread for updates.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Karger

[dgreene196]

16 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Rereading how the Fourth Bridge works ...  there is so much that could go wrong.

They need to relay instructions to Urithiru AND the Shattered plains to change vertical & horizontal direction. 

They can’t steer or move forward without the Shattered Plains team and they can’t change elevation without the Urithiru team.

The Urithiru team that’s just lowering a lattice off the plateau cliff outside of Urithiru. 

If they are on a mission and Urithiru is attacked let’s say the ropes holding the lattice are cut and it drops ... the fourth bridge would go waaaay up really fast and there would be now way to get it down. 

What happens if the lattice falls and tumbles end over end? Will the ship flip?

I suspect Navani has some emergency contingency plans.  And possibly some back-up plans to those.

[Dracnor]

9 minutes ago, dgreene196 said:

I suspect Navani has some emergency contingency plans.  And possibly some back-up plans to those.

The ship won't move over ennemy territory without a windrunner escort... and windrunners are kind of a backup to exit people in emergency.

[Innovation]

Urithiru is well guarded, and with Stormseat’s Oathgate, the Shattered Plains are also likely well protected. 

[nonix]

Does anyone have an idea of how Sja-anat may impact fabrials? We saw in Oathbringer the issue with the screaming when investiture was used either by Kaladin or by fabrials (I always assumed this was due to Sja-anat's work). 

Is Sja-anat able to corrupt spren that are in gemstones and being used for fabrials? It is noted that the spren corrupted by her act strangely, however the spanreeds appear to continue working.

Could she be used by either Odium, or perhaps if she changes sides, by the Radiants, to disrupt and sabotage the use of fabrials?

[18th Shard]

10 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

I'll get to an analysis of fabrial mechanics of airships in a later post. It's not quite adding up for me. I can see two possible mechanisms, but I don't like either of them. First, you could place half in an aluminum container, isolating the connection and allowing free movement of each half. But then how do you stay afloat when you isolate the vertical lattice so you can move horizontal? The second is that aluminum obstructs the movement without breaking the connection, but I don't like that in terms of historical aluminum Realmatic interference (where you can't Push directly on aluminum, but it doesn't impede your movement any more than your regular weight, as evidenced by Wax flying around with an aluminum gun), and it would seem to make the whole ship susceptible to one chump with a piece of aluminum stopping the whole thing. But I'll go into that in more detail later, when I've got some more time to think it over and write it up.

I am thinking that the aluminum is used on a portion of the fabrials at once, which are reset, then rotated to a different set. So if you need 70 fabrials to lift the ship, I'd have 100, and have them split into 5 groups of 20, each offset in their starting point by 1/5th the overall displacement. Once the first group reaches max displacement, place aluminum over those ones, then move them back to the start, then remove the aluminum. Cycle through repeatedly. 

[Innovation]

How I think it works is that there are two groups of Chulls pulling two separate Fabrials. Group one walks forward, disconnects, and turns around. All the while, group two walks forward. Repeat process for unlimited uninterrupted flight. 

[Kuram]

6 hours ago, scm288 said:

My understanding of the balance of power between the Fused and the Radiants is that, even without access to Surges, the Fused would come back again, and again, and again.

Their rebirth in the storm is only something new of the everstorm, if I remember previously when they died they were trapped on Braize again until the next desolation.

[Jess]

8 hours ago, scm288 said:

Also, when Veil mentions acknowledging the 'full truth,' and Shallan represses it, my thought: There's more??? 

12 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

I can't even fathom what truth her personas was referring, I thought we had learned everything there was to learn about her past.

I am surprised that people are surprised about this. We know basically nothing about Shallan's life before she killed her mother--at which point she had not only bonded with Pattern, but progressed far enough to wield him as a Blade! What truth(s) did she say to get there? What profound, difficult personal truths could an eleven year old possibly have to say? How was she already "broken" enough for a Nahel bond back when her family was still intact? These have been burning questions for me since WoR and I'm excited to see we might finally get the answers.

[Gilphon]

I'm on the same page there. There's still a lot we don't know about Shallan's mother and the events leading up to her death.

But also- Shallan's plotline is apparently about Iaiai Sadeas and the Sons of Honor, both of which are distinctly c-list antagonists at this point. So I find myself hoping that we move through the storyline pretty quickly.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, nonix said:

Does anyone have an idea of how Sja-anat may impact fabrials? We saw in Oathbringer the issue with the screaming when investiture was used either by Kaladin or by fabrials (I always assumed this was due to Sja-anat's work). 

Brandon has said there will be a difference but RAFOed what it would be.

2 hours ago, nonix said:

Could she be used by either Odium, or perhaps if she changes sides, by the Radiants, to disrupt and sabotage the use of fabrials?

She already did that with the oathgates technically.

14 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

But also- Shallan's plotline is apparently about Iaiai Sadeas and the Sons of Honor, both of which are distinctly c-list antagonists at this point. So I find myself hoping that we move through the storyline pretty quickly.

I think it is her equivalent to Harthstone.  She and Adolin have clearly been on this for a while and it is getting close to a conclusion. 

[+Wax]

Navani is the second bondsmith with the Sibling (my guess).  Can see it coming now... 

[Innovation]

Where is the Sibling? The Stormfather is in the storm and the Nightwatcher is in the Valley. Is the Sibling in the gemstone column? Dalinar couldn’t infuse it, and that could be caused by something already in it. 

[+Wax]

1 minute ago, Innovation said:

Where is the Sibling? The Stormfather is in the storm and the Nightwatcher is in the Valley. Is the Sibling in the gemstone column? Dalinar couldn’t infuse it, and that could be caused by something already in it. 

I think the Sibling is the tower.

[Innovation]

The Sibling is implied to have control over the tower, which the gemstone column presumably allows.  

[nonix]

11 minutes ago, Karger said:

2 hours ago, nonix said:

Could she be used by either Odium, or perhaps if she changes sides, by the Radiants, to disrupt and sabotage the use of fabrials?

She already did that with the oathgates technically.

You are correct. Totally forgot about that. 

[Zelly]

I hadn't realized they were uploading chapters already...randomly checked Brandon's twitter while brushing my teeth and actually gasped and spilled spit-paste all over myself. 

Random thoughts!

Quote

Kaladin raised his spear to challenge the Fused to single combat, an action that always worked with the Heavenly Ones

Interesting....thinking there are some personality similarities or overlaps between the KR orders and the Void orders...

Shallan's situation is getting even more confusing....  Like....is it good or bad?   And I guess that's the point, that we're suppose to be a bit wary.

Quote

The final step in capturing spren is the most tricky, as you must remove the Stormlight from the gemstone.

Is this step before or after the spren has entered the gemstone?  If the spren is outside, I wonder if some sort of vacuum occurs and that's what draws it in.

They really should've name that flying barge "Navani's Ark". 

Quote

The real advancement had come as they’d learned to use aluminum to isolate motion along a plane, and even change the vectors of force.

*perks up at using aluminum*   Not going to lie, Navani in full science scholar mode is bit rough to read.

Quote

She thought, for the briefest moment, she heard a tone in the distance. A pure note vibrating through her.

Ooooooo more music / rhythm connections?  I swear frequency and sound is going to end up having a major role on Roshar.  

[Karger]

Just now, Zelly said:

Interesting....thinking there are some personality similarities or overlaps between the KR orders and the Void orders...

One wonders where the idea of the different orders and why there had to be 10 comes from.  Singers and humans did cohabit for a time.

2 minutes ago, Zelly said:

Is this step before or after the spren has entered the gemstone?

From context I think after.  It is tricky because draining stormlight quickly is hard without a radiant.

2 minutes ago, Zelly said:

Not going to lie, Navani in full science scholar mode is bit rough to read.

Really?  I rather liked it.

[Storyspren]

Naming the airship “the Fourth Bridge” is like naming something “the Titanic” or “the Hindenburg.” I feel really bad for whoever gets caught up in the horrors sure to occur on that giant flying target. 

Also - Kaladin’s next oath in something only Lirin can teach him. I suspect he’ll have to let Lirin die and save himself.

Also Also - Shallan’s last memory is going to be Hannibal level bad. 

 

[Blightsong]

2 hours ago, Zelly said:

Ooooooo more music / rhythm connections?  I swear frequency and sound is going to end up having a major role on Roshar.  

It occurred to me during a reread that we have see this exact same thing before off of Roshar. I'm sure anyone who's read secret history will remember the below scene.

Spoiler

Regardless, Kelsier could sense something. The Well continued to pulse as it had before, sending waves of writhing shock through the walls of his prison and out into the world. Those pulses seemed to be strengthening, a continuous thrumming, like the sense bronze lent one in “hearing” people using Allomancy.

Seems like pretty much the same thing. Perpendicularities/large concentrations of Investiture that release some in kinetic form seem to produce these audible 'noises' in a much stronger form than what a Seeker would normally pick up. Very interesting.

[Honorless]

Look at this WoB:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson 

He'd have to get him inside a living one.

Emotional Allomancy, for example, works by lapping against the outsides of someone's cognitive self, influencing you the way music might stir your soul. So being inside a living body wouldn't necessarily stop it--you'd just have more interference. Kind of like how you can still hear music outside if it's loud enough.

Actual mind control in the cosmere requires you to get INSIDE the soul, which you've seen happen frequently enough. There has to be a gap or an opening.

Or, conversely, you just have to be so powerful that you can push through the interference.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

Music/Rhythms

[ScadrianTank]

The Fourth Bridge is insanely cool. I wonder what its bead would be like in Shadesmar. Would it say "I am a ship." or "I am a bridge?" Or would it go full Stormfather and say something like "I am the Fourth Bridge, carrier of kings, Bondsmiths, admirals and smelly bridgeman!"

[HoidsRock]

9 hours ago, Gilphon said:

But also- Shallan's plotline is apparently about Iaiai Sadeas and the Sons of Honor, both of which are distinctly c-list antagonists at this point.

Actually, I think there is still an important plotline out there about the Sons of Honor--namely, Restares.  In the flashbacks, Gavilar seems to have at the very least a "passing grade" opinion of his fellow Son of Honor, Amaram and a low opinion of Dalinar.  Yet, while dying, his second guess, is that Restares has enlisted Szeth.  Why?  Did he and Restares fight over control of the SoH?  Was Gavilar not really a member but used them for his own ends?

But also, in those dying moments, he asks Szeth to leave a message to Dalinar and not to Amaram.  Yeah, I know Dalinar is his brother but Dalinar apparently could not be trusted to be brought in on his plans.  Why didn't he reach out to Amaram?  My working theory is that something changed in the time period when Jasnah sees Gavilar and Szeth fights him that makes him no longer trust the SoH.  Gavilar's POV in Book 5 will reveal it.

Edited July 29, 2020 by HoidsRock
Previous said Roshone when I meant Restares. Apologies for the brain freeze and thanks to Child of Hodor for pointing it out.r

[+Child of Hodor]

19 minutes ago, HoidsRock said:

Actually, I think there is still an important plotline out there about the Sons of Honor--namely, Roshone.  In the flashbacks, Gavilar seems to have at the very least a "passing grade" opinion of his fellow Son of Honor, Amaram and a low opinion of Dalinar.  Yet, while dying, his second guess, is that Roshone has enlisted Szeth.  Why?  Did he and Roshone fight over control of the SoH?  Was Gavilar not really a member but used them for his own ends?

But also, in those dying moments, he asks Szeth to leave a message to Dalinar and not to Amaram.  Yeah, I know Dalinar is his brother but Dalinar apparently could not be trusted to be brought in on his plans.  Why didn't he reach out to Amaram?  My working theory is that something changed in the time period when Jasnah sees Gavilar and Szeth fights him that makes him no longer trust the SoH.  Gavilar's POV in Book 5 will reveal it.

Restares was his second guess, not Roshone. 
 

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Restares