Jofwu

RoW Chapter 2 & 3 Discussion

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, Karger said:

It is not a knife it is part of his body and he is no waiting he is just pulling back and smashing again and again.  He is trying to get Kaladin to run out of stormlight.  What Moash did will not often work against Wndrunners for one simple reason.  Kaladin should have brought a friend.  You can fight with one hand trapped in someone else's body.

No it likely wasnt attached to him:

He broke a carapace spur off his arm—a sharp and jagged weapon—and pointed it toward Kaladin. He had probably used one of those as a dagger when attacking Kaladin’s back.

The Fused are pretty crappy, but I would expect them to be able to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. That is, they shouldnt have to move the weapon in order to turn their head every couple of seconds.

Edited by Nymeros
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"Repeated infliction of full paralysis. A clever way of dealing with an enemy who could heal. Kaladin’s Stormlight would run out quickly at this rate."

I'm thinking that healing full paralysis takes a decent amount of stormlight to heal. Making Kaladin do this over and over is what will quickly win this fight for the fused. Kaladin otherwise may just hold the stormlight, not healing the paralysis, and survive far longer.

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

No it likely wasnt attached to him:

You triple posted and at the time it was.  He evidently came to the same conclusion you did and realized that if he broke off and left it in there he could just wait for Kaladin's reserve to run out.  He only breaks off the spike after the paralysis scene.  Also as Kaladin says

Quote

Cut through the gemheart, the head, or the neck with a Blade, and—great powers notwithstanding—the Fused would die.

 

Edited by Karger
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Posted (edited)

Why did I think chapters came out on Thursdays?

Anyway, I see Shallan has gotten into a comfort zone, she likes where she is, but she can't stay like that forever. I can see two things happening, either she lives like that until she realizes she can't go on like that and she has a crisis (hopefully the last of the big ones), or she stays like this, switching personas more and more easily until she's not switching anymore. Whether she knows it or not, all three personalities are just different side of the same person, and I think this new state of hers could help her merge them as they should be. 

Also, more on Lirin, that man is going to have a rough time accepting the new way of things. I can understand his behavior towards Dalinar. One doesn't meet a former warlord who has killed thousands that hypocritically has been doing good deeds for the past year and instantly respect him. We know the man and his struggles, Lirin doesn't. He did waver when Dalinar showed care for the healing of people so that's a step.

I've seen people worried about Dalinar and Navani's relationship but I think it'll be alright. A thing that stands out to me about Dalinar is that he followed his brother's steps but ended in a completely opposite place, and I think it will be the same regarding his marriage.

Hesina is the best. I don't think we have two pages worth of dialog from her but she's easily one of my favorite characters. 

And Syl. Having this close relationship with Kal's family? Private conversations with Adolin? She's basically human now. She's a different species, yes, and it shows in her not understanding basic human needs but she's a character on her own right with a life apart from Kaladin.

Edited by Eluvianii
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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

but she can't stay like that forever

I don't know.  The best way to cope with metal illness is just fining a way to live with it.

Edited by Karger
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38 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

The Fused was still there holding Kaladin. It just seemed odd that he would severe Kaladins spine but then remove the knife, allow the wound to heal, then cut into his neck again. The Fused repeated this for some time which is how Kaladin countered. He should have just left the knife in his neck. Even Moash knew to just keep the blade in place to counter healing as he did with Elokhar.

Kaladin could pull out the knife himself, if the Fused left it there. The Fused would be deprived of his knife. 

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Just now, Diomedes said:

Kaladin could pull out the knife himself, if the Fused left it there. The Fused would be deprived of his knife. 

They idea is that a knife would stop the wound from closing.  Because of that Kaladin would not be able to reach it and pull it out and would just expend all his stormlight trying to stay alive.

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Posted (edited)

Let's all agree that the new Fused is awesome regardless of how they are technically able to do the disincorporate - zip around like a spren - reincorporate transportation thing. 

EDIT: OK what I said still stand, BUT is it soulcasting a body each time? It doesn't really warp so much as shed it's physical form because it can move faster as a spren-like Cognitive Shadow.  Maybe it's surge is soulcasting not transportation. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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10 minutes ago, Karger said:

They idea is that a knife would stop the wound from closing.  Because of that Kaladin would not be able to reach it and pull it out and would just expend all his stormlight trying to stay alive

I am sure Syl would quickly find a form to pull out the knife, a rope attached to the knife and to Kaladin`s mouth should do the trick. 

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11 minutes ago, Karger said:

They idea is that a knife would stop the wound from closing.  Because of that Kaladin would not be able to reach it and pull it out and would just expend all his stormlight trying to stay alive.

I think the goal was more than incapacitating Kaladin. It seemed like the fused wanted to drain his stormlight quickly. 

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Just now, Diomedes said:

I am sure Syl would quickly find a form to pull out the knife, a rope attached to the knife and to Kaladin`s mouth should do the trick. 

If he can move his neck while paralyzed which he can't.

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15 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't know.  The best way to cope with metal illness is just fining a way to live with it.

Gotta respectfully disagree. Illnesses don't just get better or manageable without actually addressing them--they fester just like physical illnesses and get a lot worse if not given proper attention. The longer Shallan keeps shoving things aside, the harder it's going to be to function without the manifestation of more personalities to hold the memories back--especially when they advocate for remembering.

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Just now, book.spren said:

Gotta respectfully disagree. Illnesses don't just get better or manageable without actually addressing them--they fester just like physical illnesses and get a lot worse if not given proper attention. The longer Shallan keeps shoving things aside, the harder it's going to be to function without the manifestation of more personalities to hold the memories back--especially when they advocate for remembering.

Of course she should take proper care of herself but that is not what I am talking about.  I don't think it would necessarily be healthy for her to simply eliminate Veil and Radiant anymore.

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

If he can move his neck while paralyzed which he can't.

He can move his jaw though that should be enough. 

 

1 minute ago, book.spren said:

Gotta respectfully disagree. Illnesses don't just get better or manageable without actually addressing them--they fester just like physical illnesses and get a lot worse if not given proper attention. The longer Shallan keeps shoving things aside, the harder it's going to be to function without the manifestation of more personalities to hold the memories back--especially when they advocate for remembering.

Gotta second that. 

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Posted (edited)

Couldn’t Kaladin just Lash the knife out? That would explain why he kept stabbing him. 

Edited by Innovation
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9 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

OK what I said still stand, BUT is it soulcasting a body each time? It doesn't really warp so much as shed it's physical form because it can move faster as a spren-like Cognitive Shadow.  Maybe it's surge is soulcasting not transportation. 

I think if he was soulcasting, he'd be able to take objects with him. And there'd be no reason for him to leave a body behind / have the cast-off body collapse into dust.

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15 minutes ago, Karger said:

They idea is that a knife would stop the wound from closing.  Because of that Kaladin would not be able to reach it and pull it out and would just expend all his stormlight trying to stay alive.

He does not need to. He can lash the knife and himself in opposite directions. Whether he would have the presence of mind is a different question. But in principle the problem is solvable.

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Just now, Innovation said:

Couldn’t Kaladin just Lash the knife out?

Yes, he can, should have thought about that :) 

 

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

Of course she should take proper care of herself but that is not what I am talking about.  I don't think it would necessarily be healthy for her to simply eliminate Veil and Radiant anymore.

Oh I absolutely agree that Veil and Radiant can't just be eliminated at this point--they need to be integrated into Shallan, herself, but they're never going to go away completely because they are a part of her. 

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6 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't know.  The best way to cope with metal illness is just fining a way to live with it.

Well, that really depends on the mental illness, and at what level you define “coping”. In this particular case, the split personalities isn’t Shallan’s root problem: it’s the combination of trauma, feelings of inadequacy, and maladaptive coping mechanisms. And those are the kinds of things that can be worked through, at least to some extent. Add Invesiture into the mix and everything gets wonky though. My own theory is that it’s the interaction between the powers she’s using and her own vulnerable psychology that got her the current situation. That should mean a combination of correctly applied investiture and therapy can get her out of it. Even if her underlying tendency towards repression and disassociative thinking can’t be resolved, she could certainly be in a better headspace than what we just read.

The way I read it, her problem started with the idea that “Shallan” was broken, so she needed to be someone else to be successful. What she needs to realize is that the capabilities of Veil and Radiant are all hers, that she can be all of them at once. Actually getting to that point is far easier said than done,  obviously. 

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Couldn’t Kaladin just Lash the knife out? That would explain why he kept stabbing him. 

Actually he might well be able to.  That is a fairly good point.

Just now, Scriptorian said:

The way I read it, her problem started with the idea that “Shallan” was broken, so she needed to be someone else to be successful. What she needs to realize is that the capabilities of Veil and Radiant are all hers, that she can be all of them at once. Actually getting to that point is far easier said than done,  obviously. 

Yeah I am just worried about people who think they should be eliminated.  They are part of her.

Edited by Karger
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11 minutes ago, Karger said:

They idea is that a knife would stop the wound from closing.  Because of that Kaladin would not be able to reach it and pull it out and would just expend all his stormlight trying to stay alive.

Exactly. I just expect better from an ancient warrior facing what is one of our most notorious new age Radiants. I probably just need to accept that he was just impatient and wanted to rush the process of exhausting Kaladin's stormlight not counting on Kaladin to fight back in the split second where his spine was healed and before it could be cut open again.

7 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Let's all agree that the new Fused is awesome regardless of how they are technically able to do the disincorporate - zip around like a spren - reincorporate transportation thing. 

Absolutely! His design is awesome as are his powers and fighting style.....would love to see some good fanart. One of the very few times I felt like a Fused was a worthy opponent for a Radiant. Silver medal goes to the ice skating Fused who managed to snag Nightbloods sheathe and nearly kill Szeth.

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18 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't know.  The best way to cope with metal illness is just fining a way to live with it.

She's not exactly living with it though, she is pushing back the inevitable. It's like having a house you have to clean but you don't do it because it looks fine now and a dirty house won't kill you, but eventually it will be impossible to ignore and you'll have to do something about it.

I think it's something like that. As I said, this could also be just the process of her personalities merging back into one again but, as much as I would love that, it would be kind of like the problem solving itself and there's no growth in that. So in the end it's probably a sure thing that she'll deal with it sooner or later. She probably can't become a Fifth Ideal/Truth Radiant without a more or less stable self anyway.

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He probably couldn't Lash the knife if it was still attached to the Fused's body, though.

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Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, Nymeros said:

Exactly. I just expect better from an ancient warrior facing what is one of our most notorious new age Radiants. I probably just need to accept that he was just impatient and wanted to rush the process of exhausting Kaladin's stormlight not counting on Kaladin to fight back in the split second where his spine was healed and before it could be cut open again.

1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

He probably couldn't Lash the knife if it was still attached to the Fused's body, though.

I think he did not train for this specific encounter.  How often is a windrunner stupid enough to leave all their squires behind?  Also he does manage to lash the entire fused.

Edited by Karger
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