Frustration Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Personification said: Can someone please do the astronaut "always has been" thing with (Mistborn) Reveal hidden contents Kel being evil. If you would turn your attention to SH Spoiler Where he stabs Elend to emotionaly manipulate his adopted daughter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: Yes, Vyre did nothing unreasonable. (honestly, the thing I'm most mad about was him cutting Lift's legs. That's it) Huh, in your mind killing his former friend and his spren was less of a problem than cutting the leg of the girl who'll regrow them with her next meal? 1 minute ago, Frustration said: If you would turn your attention to SH Hide contents Where he stabs Elend to emotionaly manipulate his adopted daughter. That was more 'sad good' than evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, mathiau said: That was more 'sad good' than evil Exhibit 2 SH Spoiler When Kel comments on sparing a pregment noble he thinks it with the air of someone giving a child extra leniency on their birthday. He really couldn't care 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, mathiau said: Huh, in your mind killing his former friend and his spren was less of a problem than cutting the leg of the girl who'll regrow them with her next meal? Lift isn't much of a fighter, Teft could defend himself, and I'm not going to get mad at Vyre for fighting Teft when Teft would try and kill him in a heartbeat. It's like how killing battlefield medics are seen as horrendous. Plus she's a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Frustration said: But... He was always like that. Vyre did nothing wrong. I agree that he was always like that, but most people seem to have missed it. 26 minutes ago, Personification said: Can someone please do the astronaut "always has been" thing with (Mistborn) Hide contents Kel being evil. But I disagree that he’s evil. He’s as chaotic neutral as he’s ever been - we’re just on the wrong side of his plans. Well, you are. I’m a Ghostblood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 What the crap there are 13 people on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: Exhibit 2 SH Hide contents When Kel comments on sparing a pregment noble he thinks it with the air of someone giving a child extra leniency on their birthday. He really couldn't care True 4 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: Lift isn't much of a fighter, Teft could defend himself, and I'm not going to get mad at Vyre for fighting Teft when Teft would try and kill him in a heartbeat. It's like how killing battlefield medics are seen as horrendous. Plus she's a child. Yeah, you're actually right Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said: I agree that he was always like that, but most people seem to have missed it. But I disagree that he’s evil. He’s as chaotic neutral as he’s ever been - we’re just on the wrong side of his plans. Well, you are. I’m a Ghostblood. Pretty sure "do everything for himself" is the DnD definition of evil, he's probably neutral by RoW though, possibly true/lawful neutral too since he founded the gostbloods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mathiau said: True Yeah, you're actually right Pretty sure "do everything for himself" is the DnD definition of evil, he's probably neutral by RoW though, possibly true/lawful neutral too since he founded the gostbloods Kell doesn’t do everything for himself though. He is inherently selfish, but he likes to focus himself on good causes that better others. And himself, too, of course. He WANTS to be good, knows he isn’t, and tries to point himself at good ends to countermand that. It’s an inherent paradox in his character, and it’s why I find him so fascinating. Also, Brandon has said he’s chaotic neutral. But that’s a side point. Kell is a trickster/rogue. It’s what makes him so much fun! And Kell is not lawful anything. The man is chaos incarnate. Edited January 5, 2021 by Kingsdaughter613 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Personification Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, mathiau said: True Yeah, you're actually right Pretty sure "do everything for himself" is the DnD definition of evil, he's probably neutral by RoW though, possibly true/lawful neutral too since he founded the gostbloods The Ghostbloods 100% strike me as an evil organization. Not in a mustache-twirling way, but in a "trading a teenage girl to a mad scientist who will almost definitely kill her for diplomatic immunity is something that this organization is fine with" kind of way. Founding the Ghostbloods (and technically, we don't know that he did that yet, he may have joined and "taken over within a year" as Brandon said he could) is, if anything, more evidence for him being Evil. Also, to those who say he wasn't evil in Era 1, Brandon has pretty explicitly said that in any environment outside of the Final Empire as a skaa, Kel would have been a villain, and then he showed us what that might look like with Miles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, More Cynical Than Funny said: Seriously look at his character arc [Mistborn All] Reveal hidden contents Starts thieving crew Breaks into Kredik Shaw Goes to Hathsin Teams up with Gemmel Trains for a while ~bunch o' stuff happens for three years~ Kidnaps Vin Plots his own death makes an army "Dies" Bonds to Fuzz's perpendicularly Becomes Cognitive Shadow Decks Fuzz Get's in fist fight with Hoid Gets trapped at the Well Stabs Elend Get's freed from the Well Meets some Elantrians and steals there orb Fuzz dies and Kelsier ascends Tries to kill Ati Fails at that Gives up power to Sazed. ~bunch of theoretical stuff happens~ Gets a body at some point Rules Scadrial south??? @Kingsdaughter613 came up with that one. Manages to Worldhop (Hoid met him on "other planets") Joins Ghostbloods at some point Becomes there leader ~More theoretical stuff happens~ Shows up in BoM And he is a servant of Ruin the whole time Pretty sure he founded them not joined them, no proof I remember of though (and I know I'm not the best person to say that but we're getting of topic here). Edited January 5, 2021 by mathiau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, More Cynical Than Funny said: Seriously look at his character arc [Mistborn All] Reveal hidden contents Starts thieving crew Breaks into Kredik Shaw Goes to Hathsin Teams up with Gemmel Trains for a while ~bunch o' stuff happens for three years~ Kidnaps Vin Plots his own death makes an army "Dies" Bonds to Fuzz's perpendicularly Becomes Cognitive Shadow Decks Fuzz Get's in fist fight with Hoid Gets trapped at the Well Stabs Elend Get's freed from the Well Meets some Elantrians and steals there orb Fuzz dies and Kelsier ascends Tries to kill Ati Fails at that Gives up power to Sazed. ~bunch of theoretical stuff happens~ Gets a body at some point Rules Scadrial south??? @Kingsdaughter613 came up with that one. Manages to Worldhop (Hoid met him on "other planets") Joins Ghostbloods at some point Becomes there leader ~More theoretical stuff happens~ Shows up in BoM And he is a servant of Ruin the whole time What on earth are you talking about Thaidakar founded the ghostbloods he still can't leave his homeworld as of RoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: What on earth are you talking about Thaidakar founded the ghostbloods he still can't leave his homeworld as of RoW Do we have proof of that? We're assuming cause he have problem with moving investiture and speak with an avatar but do we have proofs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, More Cynical Than Funny said: Seriously look at his character arc [Mistborn All] Hide contents Starts thieving crew Breaks into Kredik Shaw Goes to Hathsin Teams up with Gemmel Trains for a while ~bunch o' stuff happens for three years~ Kidnaps Vin Plots his own death makes an army "Dies" Bonds to Fuzz's perpendicularly Becomes Cognitive Shadow Decks Fuzz Get's in fist fight with Hoid Gets trapped at the Well Stabs Elend Get's freed from the Well Meets some Elantrians and steals there orb Fuzz dies and Kelsier ascends Tries to kill Ati Fails at that Gives up power to Sazed. ~bunch of theoretical stuff happens~ Gets a body at some point Rules Scadrial south??? @Kingsdaughter613 came up with that one. Manages to Worldhop (Hoid met him on "other planets") Joins Ghostbloods at some point Becomes there leader ~More theoretical stuff happens~ Shows up in BoM And he is a servant of Ruin the whole time I didn’t come up with that. He’s literally called the Sovereign! Also, he can’t worldhop. WoB on that one, and it’s implied that that’s the problem he shares with the heralds. 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: What on earth are you talking about Thaidakar founded the ghostbloods he still can't leave his homeworld as of RoW I agree with you, but we don’t actually know he founded them. Though I’m pretty sure the original Ghostbloods were: Kelsier, Spook, Breeze, Ham, Beldre and Alriane. Their first job: Get Kelsier a body. And the name was Spook’s idea. He thought it was funny. No one else did, but it stuck anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Personification Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: I didn’t come up with that. He’s literally called the Sovereign! Also, he can’t worldhop. WoB on that one, and it’s implied that that’s the problem he shares with the heralds. I agree with you, but we don’t actually know he founded them. Though I’m pretty sure the original Ghostbloods were: Kelsier, Spook, Breeze, Ham, Beldre and Alriane. Their first job: Get Kelsier a body. And the name was Spook’s idea. He thought it was funny. No one else did, but it stuck anyway. SH: Spoiler I'm going to say that Breeze, Ham, and Alriane weren't in on it, because Breeze and Ham both knew enough about Kel and the metallic arts to know that wherever this plan would be going it wouldn't end well, and Alriane was close enough to Breeze and politically savvy enough to be in a similar position. Of the original crew, only Spook really worshipped Kel enough to think tinkering with hemalurgy to give him a knew body wouldn't be a net negative for humanity. Even Vin and Sazed tried their best to get him to go to the Beyond, with the latter actually lying about the possibility of getting a new body to discourage him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Personification said: SH: Hide contents I'm going to say that Breeze, Ham, and Alriane weren't in on it, because Breeze and Ham both knew enough about Kel and the metallic arts to know that wherever this plan would be going it wouldn't end well, and Alriane was close enough to Breeze and politically savvy enough to be in a similar position. Of the original crew, only Spook really worshipped Kel enough to think tinkering with hemalurgy to give him a knew body wouldn't be a net negative for humanity. Even Vin and Sazed tried their best to get him to go to the Beyond, with the latter actually lying about the possibility of getting a new body to discourage him. We don’t actually know why Saze lied. He knew Kell well enough to know that wouldn’t discourage him. Brandon’s response when asked about this was to say - carefully - that Saze has a better opinion of Kelsier than Kelsier. Which implies to me that there was something more to this. Sazed knew something. There’s always another secret... As for Ham and Breeze... Ham actually says that he’s always up for joining one of Kell’s crews, and Breeze implies the same. They’re his friends and they know him. But they’re still going to help him, if only because he’s Kelsier and they aren’t about to leave him in the Cognitive Realm. They never worshipped him, but they still followed him. They’re loyal to him in a very different way than Spook, but they are loyal. Beldre and Alriane get involved on their own insistence. But this is way too serious for the meme board really. I wrote that as a joke, because that’s what this board is for. Edited January 5, 2021 by Kingsdaughter613 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinkoln Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Frustration said: Vyre did nothing wrong. He killed Teft. He killed Teft. He KILLED Teft. The best character in the Cosmere was killed by Vyre, and you say he did nothing wrong?!?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, Chinkoln said: He killed Teft. He killed Teft. He KILLED Teft. The best character in the Cosmere was killed by Vyre, and you say he did nothing wrong?!?! Teft was meh at best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinkoln Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: Teft was meh at best. Teft, Marsh, Galladon, Clubs. Those are four of my favorite characters. TEFT IS DEAD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, Chinkoln said: Teft, Marsh, Galladon, Clubs. Those are four of my favorite characters. TEFT IS DEAD Get over it kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Frustration said: Teft was meh at best. HERESY. Teft was the best sergeant in the entire COSMERE. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinkoln Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, mathiau said: Get over it kid. I did. Then Frustration said nothing was wrong, that paired with me on my 3rd reread (I just got to the part where Teft dies). I am no longer over it. Also, kid? How old do you think I am? Anyway, back to posting memes in the RoW memes thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spren of Kindness Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Hey, maybe y'all could take this discussion off the memes thread? It's interesting, but it's not very on topic. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, Chinkoln said: I did. Then Frustration said nothing was wrong, that paired with me on my 3rd reread (I just got to the part where Teft dies). I am no longer over it. Also, kid? How old do you think I am? Anyway, back to posting memes in the RoW memes thread. The 'kid' just seemed to go well with the rest of the sentence, I know you're 150 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Chinkoln said: Teft, Marsh, Galladon, Clubs. Those are four of my favorite characters. TEFT IS DEAD MB/Elantris spoilers Spoiler Marsh is fine! So is Galladon! Edited January 5, 2021 by Kingsdaughter613 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwa1ker Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Back to memes: 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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