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Laral + Kaladin


snoopy

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With Roshone dead, what do you think the possibility is of Brandon setting up for a Kaladin + Laral romance.  In Lirin's chapter, Lirin thinks about how he would have liked to have her as a daughter and how he admires her.  It says:

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Laral wore a simple servant’s dress now, with a gloved hand instead of a sleeve, and she carried a water bucket to the waiting refugees. Laral didn’t walk like a servant though. There was a certain… determination about the young woman that no forced subservience could smother. The end of the world seemed roughly as bothersome to her as a poor harvest once had.

....

Laral watched him with pale green eyes. She was a keen one. How he wished life had gone in another direction, that old Wistiow had held on a few more years. Lirin might call this woman daughter


 

In Oathbringer, we learned that Syl likes Laral:

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Syl zipped over his shoulder as he started down the steps. "So, that's the girl you were going to marry."

"No," Kaladin whispered.  "That's the girl I was never going to marry, no matter what happened."

"I like her."

"You would."

 

I was never on team Kalaral (sp?) before, but I can see a subtle setup by Brandon.  She was the girl Kaladin was supposed to marry as a child, but it was doomed when her father died and she needed to marry for position.  Now Roshone is dead with Kaladin trying to protect him (so none of the Helaran issues that Kaladin + Shallan would have).  We don't know much about Laral.  I think Kaladin views her as a little stuck up, but his interactions with her have been very limited in recent years.  We know Lirin and Syl like her, and if Brandon chooses to have Laral and Kaladin interact, there is potential.  I can also see Laral possibly coming to Urithiru as a scribe for Bridge Four, since she now has nothing tying her home.  It would be easy for Brandon to bring in Kaladin+ Laral interactions with her as a free agent.  I also don't think Brandon would have killed off Roshone without having something better in mind for Laral.

I do think Brandon is going to bring in some romance for Kaladin in this novel.  Syl has talked about wanting him to have romance too much for nothing to happen.  Shalladin is certainly out for this book.  Rysn only gets an interlude in RoW.  Jasnah is in a different character grouping and so interactions with Kaladin would be limited. Not to mention that Brandon has said that we won't get to know Jasnah too much until the back 5 books. Tarah or Azure are possibilities, but it seems to me that Brandon is setting up the stage for Laral.  She hasn't been my favorite character in previous books, but if we go off of Lirin's opinion and Syl's, then I think she has potential that Brandon might want to explore.  Plus Kaladin saying that she is "the girl he was never going to marry" is begging to be proven wrong.

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46 minutes ago, rjl said:

Kaladin was opposed BUT it's possible - particularly if Laural changes a bit after Roshone's death.

I’m not sure why she’s have to change one bit.  She’s been a strong advocate and leader for her home for, seemingly, years.

We don’t get good feelings about where she’s at by the time Kaladin and Tien go off to war, but, when we see her again in Oathbringer, it certainly seems as though she’s ruling for all that Roshone is the designated citylord.  Who do the guards and people listen to?  Laral.  Who assembled all of Kaladin’s supplies (and charged spheres with the last high storm)?  Laral.

And it’s not a surprise.  To Roshone, Hearthstone is an interminable punishment and the place his son died.  To Laral, it’s home - the place she was raised to lead.

And what we know of RoW so far continues to note that she’s a leader among the people.  A light-eyes, but one that has respect among her people.

Kaladin would be lucky to have a romance with someone of her character.

 

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I value the most the relationships that had substantial build up throughout the story. Thats why i never could get behind something like Tarah+Kaladin or Laral+Kaladin. Those had brief and not that (relatively) big build ups, set ups led to way different life for Kaladin and dozens pages sacrificed just to return to those brief set ups from Book 1 in Book 4 and Book 5 kinda arent worthy to me. Id better spend those pages reading about something like Adolin+Shallan, Kaladin+Shallan, Adolin+Kaladin, Kaladin+Jasnah and so on. Something that has nice and proper story behind or something that can become very interesting to read about.

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1 hour ago, Harbour said:

I value the most the relationships that had substantial build up throughout the story. Thats why i never could get behind something like Tarah+Kaladin or Laral+Kaladin. Those had brief and not that (relatively) big build ups, set ups led to way different life for Kaladin and dozens pages sacrificed just to return to those brief set ups from Book 1 in Book 4 and Book 5 kinda arent worthy to me. Id better spend those pages reading about something like Adolin+Shallan, Kaladin+Shallan, Adolin+Kaladin, Kaladin+Jasnah and so on. Something that has nice and proper story behind or something that can become very interesting to read about.

I’m pretty ambivalent about any relationships for Kaladin right now.  I definitely enjoy the almost-brotherly relationship Kaladin has with Adolin (especially since being the “little brother” makes Kaladin always feel slightly off balance).

i think he’s done with Shallan, and I think they’ve had a good conclusion.  I’m not sure I see anything from him and Jasnah, though I think their interactions will be interesting from a discussion of ethics and morality.  She’ll inevitably try to outeducate him and he’ll hit real-world experience hard.  A discussion of oaths and Nahel bonds might be more common ground.

Losing Laral was an important lesson for him.  But re-engaging with her, and going back to some of his struggles even in TWoK may be valuable as he moves to the 4th Oath.

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4 hours ago, dgreene196 said:

I’m not sure why she’s have to change one bit.  She’s been a strong advocate and leader for her home for, seemingly, years.

We don’t get good feelings about where she’s at by the time Kaladin and Tien go off to war, but, when we see her again in Oathbringer, it certainly seems as though she’s ruling for all that Roshone is the designated citylord.  Who do the guards and people listen to?  Laral.  Who assembled all of Kaladin’s supplies (and charged spheres with the last high storm)?  Laral.

And it’s not a surprise.  To Roshone, Hearthstone is an interminable punishment and the place his son died.  To Laral, it’s home - the place she was raised to lead.

And what we know of RoW so far continues to note that she’s a leader among the people.  A light-eyes, but one that has respect among her people.

Kaladin would be lucky to have a romance with someone of her character.

 

Thank you for that.  Thinking of Kaladin as "lucky" if he gets a romance with Laral is exactly how I need to think of it.  And it makes me more excited at the prospect that I think is being set up.  She has accomplished a lot and has made the best of her situation.

3 hours ago, Harbour said:

I value the most the relationships that had substantial build up throughout the story. Thats why i never could get behind something like Tarah+Kaladin or Laral+Kaladin. Those had brief and not that (relatively) big build ups, set ups led to way different life for Kaladin and dozens pages sacrificed just to return to those brief set ups from Book 1 in Book 4 and Book 5 kinda arent worthy to me. Id better spend those pages reading about something like Adolin+Shallan, Kaladin+Shallan, Adolin+Kaladin, Kaladin+Jasnah and so on. Something that has nice and proper story behind or something that can become very interesting to read about.

I agree about Kaladin+Shallan.  Oathbringer was painful for me to read because of how all of the foreshadowing was wasted between Shallan and Kaladin.  There is a WoB quote that the romance arcs are supposed to mirror that of previous characters (Dalinar+Navani+Gavilar+Evie).  In the prologue of RoW Navani says she loved both Gavilar and Dalinar, but that everyone knew she would choose Gavilar because of his position, and that Dalinar's intensity scared her.  I think it was the same for Shallan.  She loved both Adolin and Kaladin, but was always going to choose Adolin for his position, and that Kaladin's intensity scared her.  I have taken that to mean that Shallan and Kaladin will end up together in later books (but not book 4).  

I also think Jasnah is out because of her stated smaller arc in this book.  I don't know that Jasnah in a romance would be believable to me anyway unless I could get in her head, because she hasn't seemed interested in romance thus far.  And we aren't going to get much of her thoughts until the back 5 books. 

I also think Brandon is sensitive to introducing too many characters, so I think a Kaladin romance will be with a player already introduced.  And it seems Laral is the one being set up for the spot.

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3 hours ago, snoopy said:

 

I agree about Kaladin+Shallan.  Oathbringer was painful for me to read because of how all of the foreshadowing was wasted between Shallan and Kaladin.  There is a WoB quote that the romance arcs are supposed to mirror that of previous characters (Dalinar+Navani+Gavilar+Evie).  In the prologue of RoW Navani says she loved both Gavilar and Dalinar, but that everyone knew she would choose Gavilar because of his position, and that Dalinar's intensity scared her.  I think it was the same for Shallan.  She loved both Adolin and Kaladin, but was always going to choose Adolin for his position, and that Kaladin's intensity scared her.  I have taken that to mean that Shallan and Kaladin will end up together in later books (but not book 4).  

 

What foreshadowing between Shallan and Kaladin?

Since when did Shallan love Kaladin? I thought it was pretty obvious in both Oathbringer and WOR that the only person she had strong romantic feelings for was Adolin. Wasn't her obsession with Kaladin a symptom of her multiple personlaity disorder as Veil just found him physically attractive.

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May I point out that Kaladin has torched her home? And that she may now be suspected to work for the Knights Radiant? In fact, the whole village may need to be evacuated. The policy the Fused have for getting one of their members killed in your town is unlikely to be nice.

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16 hours ago, snoopy said:

  Now Roshone is dead with Kaladin trying to protect him (so none of the Helaran issues that Kaladin + Shallan would have). 

Don't Kaladin and Laral have a "Tien issue" - which is possibly even worse? I like Laral and would like her to become a recurring minor character, but I have always found her failure to stand up for Tien at the drafting to be awful. I mean he had been her childhood friend too - she knew how unsuited he was to violence and he was also just a scrawny, undersized 13-year-old. She should have at least tried to talk Roshone into relenting about Tien after Kaladin volonteered to fill the last spot, and she didn't.

I don't think that Kal and Laral had any kind of romance in the past, BTW - they were just childhood friends, who were mostly thrown together by their circumstances and who later experienced the first stirring of hormones, nothing more. 

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1 hour ago, Isilel said:

She should have at least tried to talk Roshone into relenting about Tien after Kaladin volonteered to fill the last spot, and she didn't.

To be fair to Laral, we dont know what she said to Roshone in private. And she was still a very young girl, married off to an older man she didn’t know super-well. I wouldn’t judge her to harshly for being too afraid to speak up. Also, Amaram couldn’t get Roshone to change his mind. I doubt Laral could have done anything. 

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6 minutes ago, Harbour said:

More over, it looks like Kaladin and Venli will actually interact in RoW. Can wait, cant wait, this is the meeting im excited the most for in RoW. When they will dive below racial differences they will reveal how much in common they have.

I agree that those interactions would be fascinating.  

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Is it bad the second thought I had as Roshone's body hit the ground was maybe Kalaral will be a thing now?

They are two very different people from who they were as children with crushes on each other. Could they be a thing? Sure, but a lot more has to happen with Kaladin before it is even a possibility. And how do we know Laral would even be interested at this point? Now RoW is a long book, and we have more long books coming. So, yeah it could happen. Or maybe Tarah will come back. Or maybe he will have a whirlwind romance with Jasnah and they will leave Roshar and become worldhoppers. Jasnah's an Elsecaller so that could happen. I know they hate each other now, but a lot of romances start that way. Yes, I am slightly a Kalnah shipper, a little bit.

Seriously though, if Brandon does the romance the right way, Kalaral could be awesome. ;)

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I'm in, I've been behind this ship for a while.  I think it could be a nice role reversal.  If they do spend extended time together, Kaladin will be the one with the higher rank in society instead of Laral.  She might learn to see his perspective a little more, gain a new appreciation for him.  I think if it's going to happen, she has to make the first move.  That, or Syl has to slap Kaladin to wake him up to it.

I agree - Kaladin felt really bitter towards Laral up until their meeting in OB.  But I think that afterwards, he was impressed by her and how she was the one truly running the town.  It's one of those things with Kaladin where he picks up on what other people are doing, but doesn't really process what it means until later.  It takes someone else (often times Syl) to point these things out to him.  Like with Shallan, he clearly was into her by the end of WoR, but refused to do anything about it or even acknowledge that he even really respected her as a person until Syl forced him to acknowledge that he did like her and that he needed to try.  

I could possibly be down with a Kaladin/Venli ship, but would need to see how the characters interact before I go there.  I'm open to it though.

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1 hour ago, agrabes said:

Laral.  She might learn to see his perspective a little more, gain a new appreciation for him.  I think if it's going to happen, she has to make the first move

She seems a bit to practical for that.  That is why I, Syl and many others like her so much.  She is one of the few people who really gets that under it all Kaladin is just a grouchy farm boy who wants to be left alone to do some kind of practical retentive work.

#Single Heroes.

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Normally, a widow would need a considerable amount of time before being able to move on romantically.  However, I imagine she was never "in love" with Roshone, though she seems to have made the best of it.  If she was never truly emotionally attached to Roshone, she should be ready to quickly move on romantically, should the right person present himself, which is another positive sign for Kalaral in book 4. 

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