HoidsRock

The Winds Know Him

23 posts in this topic

Quote

Syl walked up to him in the air. “[Your parents are] like I remember them.” “

Remember them?” Kaladin whispered. “Syl, you never knew me when I lived here.”

“That’s true,” she said.

“So how can you remember them?” Kaladin said, frowning.

“Because I do,” Syl said, flitting around him. “Everyone is connected, Kaladin. Everything is connected. I didn’t know you then, but the winds did, and I am of the winds.”

“You’re honorspren.”

“The winds are of Honor,” she said, laughing as if he’d said something ridiculous. “We are kindred blood.”

Oathbringer, Ch 6

Count me as perplexed as Kaladin.  I understand that windspren are the lesser spren to windrunners but how they help Syl know Kaladin’s parents or how these non-sapient windspren can pass on memories is beyond me.  For that matter, Syl says “the winds” and it is an assumption that “the winds” equal “windspren”

But my confusion did not stop me having a moment of sheer joy in the chapter 7 reading.  The fabrial takes Kaladin’s powers though he can still feel the stormlight inside.  The listeners began to taunt him as having nothing beyond his stormlight driven powers to protect him.  Mid-taunt, Kaladin strikes and:

Quote

Kaladin felt the wind encircle him as he spun between the two of them…

Is that just the wind being pulled into a burning building or is the wind actively aiding Kaladin? 

I searched the other three novels for "Kaladin" and the "wind" and as you might guess there is a lot—way too many to discuss here.  But two passages struck out to me.  One is from the first scene where Kaladin appears, where he defends Cenn:

Quote

For a moment, Cenn thought he could see something surrounding the squadleader. A warping of the air, like the wind itself become visible.

WOK chapter 1

A second passage is from WOR and is the opposite, after Kaladin has failed (for the time being) to be a KR and broken the Nahel bond.  He goes to the training ground and performs a kata:

Quote

He sought peace and purpose in the comfortable forms. He didn’t find either. His balance was off, and his leg screamed. The rain didn’t accompany him; it just annoyed him. Worse, the wind didn’t blow. The air felt stale.

WOR chapter 81: italics mine

 

 

In this same passage, Kaladin ponders if his skill comes from the Nahel bond alone.   The answer is no as he had it before he met Syl (and Teft at the end of WOK notes that Radiance does not give skill). 

But clearly Kaladin is at his best with the winds around him.

Why?  Do the winds convey power to Kaladin, apart from the bond?  Are the winds searching for potential windrunners and conveying small bits of power as part of an audition? 

I have no answers here.  But I will give my answer to my own question above:

The winds are actively aiding him when the Nahel bond is not. 

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting - I don't have answers either, but I do like the idea that Kaladin is a little more special than your average Windrunner. Perhaps this is why the Stormfather calls him a 'Child of Tanavast' specifically instead of 'Child of Honor', as he does with everyone else. 

Edited by Goatbringer
5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, HoidsRock said:

The winds are actively aiding him when the Nahel bond is not. 

The winds are specifically not blowing while his Nahel bond is inactive. Why not just assume that his bondage began earlier and that Adhesion has more uses than sticking chairs and pebbles to walls?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

The light dimmed suddenly. Kaladin's powers vanished. He felt it as a strange smothering sensation, as if something heavy had been placed on top of his mind. His full weight came upon him again, his lashing canceled. Syl gasped as his spear puffed away and she became spren. When Kaladin tried to resummon his blade nothing happened. Immediately, Kaladin stepped backward to try to escape the range of the strange fabrial, but the soldiers quickly rushed to surround him, cutting off his retreat. Kaladin’s assumption that he could beat them easily had relied on his shard spear and his powers. Storms! Kaladin strained to create a lashing. Stormlight still raged inside of him and kept him from needing to breathe in the acrid smoke but something was suppressing his other abilities. The Fused laughed and spoke in Alethi, “Radiance, you rely too much on your powers. Without them what are you? A peasant child with no real training in the art of warfare or -.

Kaladin slammed himself against the soldier to his right. Sudden motion caused the Singer to cry out and fall backward. Kaladin yanked the spear from the man's hand, then in a fluid motion spun it and performed a two-handed lunge, impaling a second soldier. The two on his left recovered and leapt for him. Kaladin felt the wind encircle him as he spun between the two of them, catching one sword, aimed low, with the butt of his spear as he caught the second one aimed high right behind the spear’s head.

 

 

Yeah something weird is happening here. Brandon is specifically bringing this up.

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's so delicious that he catches that Fused monologuing and takes out the entire support squad without his own weapon.

10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure.  Syl and Kaladin's bond is not linear in terms of time.  It always had the potential to be there. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Karger said:

Adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure.  Syl and Kaladin's bond is not linear in terms of time.  It always had the potential to be there. 

That's always been my thought about this up until the chapter 7 reading, when it happens while the fabrial is suppressing surgebinding.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lightspine said:

That's always been my thought about this up until the chapter 7 reading, when it happens while the fabrial is suppressing surgebinding.

I am afraid I need to point out that for all we know the fabrial may surpress only some Surges. The Fused still can teleport.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Lightspine said:

That's always been my thought about this up until the chapter 7 reading, when it happens while the fabrial is suppressing surgebinding.

It does not break their bond.  It just prevents it from manifesting fully.  The same thing would happen if Syl got out of range for a time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I am afraid I need to point out that for all we know the fabrial may surpress only some Surges. The Fused still can teleport.

Fair point, I guess we don't know anything for sure. That said, I think that as assumptions go, it wasn't a bad one. We know for sure that Abrasion and Gravitation weren't accessible, but there's reason to believe that it extends further than that. First of all, Syl can't manifest as a shardblade. And secondly, the other Edgedancer (Godeki? Anyone know the spelling?) seems to have been unable to draw in stormlight. 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

It does not break their bond.  It just prevents it from manifesting fully.  The same thing would happen if Syl got out of range for a time.

Um, I wasn't trying to imply that his bond was broken, just that he shouldn't have been able to use Adhesion during this time.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

Um, I wasn't trying to imply that his bond was broken, just that he shouldn't have been able to use Adhesion during this time.

Oh sorry misinterpret. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

We know for sure that Abrasion and Gravitation weren't accessible, but there's reason to believe that it extends further than that. First of all, Syl can't manifest as a shardblade. And secondly, the other Edgedancer (Godeki? Anyone know the spelling?) seems to have been unable to draw in stormlight. 

I assumed the fabrial was shutting down or limiting the use of stormlight, regardless of the specific surge or ability. I don't think Jasnah would have been able to elsecall if she'd been there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Kaladin felt the wind encircle him as he spun between the two of them…

Could this be the beginnings of shardplate forming? He doesn't mention seeing the windspren circling around him like he did in Oathbringer, but perhaps he was too focused on the fight to see it, and only felt it. It would interesting if the void fabrial blocks surgebinging and summoning the shardblade, but not shardplate.

That said, I do think there is something going on with Kaladin and the winds/highstorm/Stormfather. I'm still curious how he can ride the storms and see what the Stormfather sees in real time. I assume it's some sort of cognitive or spiritual Connection between Stormfather and Kaladin (through Syl maybe?). Perhaps all Windrunners can do it and we haven't seen others do it yet. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Starla said:

Could this be the beginnings of shardplate forming? 

Either that or some function of Adhesion, the surge of vacuum and pressure.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since we have to assume a lot on the mechanics of the Cosmere, I would think that simply associating yourself with something gives it substance. Similar to the way a person can't regrow or heal lost limbs if it's been too long, probably because they're spirit web is now mapped that way. Whereas someone like Lopen figured it was only a matter of time until he got his arm back.

Kaladin associates a lot of his positive feelings with the wind, and I feel that as the Connection between him and the Wind continues to grow, they may even become Higher forms of Spren, actively seeking to inspire those feelings within him when he's in one of his depressed states. It may perhaps come to a point where he has to make a decision between bonding with Honor or the Wind, representing freedom from oaths in a way?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was recently rereading Oathbringer and I think there might be a little bit more to Adolin's words that "Almighty used some of the same stuff he put into Shardblades when he made you.” when he was talking to Kaladin in Shadesmar.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the group was onboard honorspren ship in Shadesmar, kaladin makes windspren appear on shadesmar which never happens. 

Now I'm thinking that ability is of supreme importance, kal can make wind (air) appear in vaccum. Might be useful in space travel in later arcs.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The wind "helping" Kaladin is down to the Windspren, who are closely connected to Honor. We have seen this a couple of times. There isn`t necessariliy something special with Kaladin going on here. 

The more interesting question, why is Kaladin so strong, he can take out several Fused without surges? Remember these guys are ancient beeings who fought for hundreds of years. I think this is due to Stormlight derived from Honor simply beeing stronger than Voidlight which is a corruption of some sorts of Honor`s power.    

Edited by Diomedes
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

 The wind "helping" Kaladin is down to the Windspren, who are closely connected to Honor. We have seen this a couple of times. There isn`t necessariliy something special with Kaladin going on here.

The more interesting question, why is Kaladin so strong, he can take out several Fused without surges? Remember these guys are ancient beeings who fought for hundreds of years. I think this is due to Stormlight derived from Honor simply beeing stronger than Voidlight which is a corruption of some sorts of Honor`s power.    

I agree, windspren are still around, even if he doesn't have is power, he still has his bond with Syl, no reason to suspect anything special. Maybe we will see this book if other Windrunners describe the same thing?

I believe that the only fused he kills is the teleporting one. The other singers are simply war form. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, nonix said:

I believe that the only fused he kills is the teleporting one. The other singers are simply war form. 

Yes you are correct, I misred that. Kal did fight half a dozen or so of them at once in OB though. 

 

2 minutes ago, nonix said:

Maybe we will see this book if other Windrunners describe the same thing?

yes, we`ll see. There was also that theory going around that those Windspren helping Kal would form his Shardplate. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We know that Stormlight was a part of Roshar prior to Honor and Cultivation arriving. So did Honor “take over” the existing investiture or did he tap into it?

If so, could the Winds be a true form of Honors investiture? This could be why Kaladin has a relationship with them outside of being a Windrunner and also him being referred to as Child of Tanavast. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, paperstones said:

We know that Stormlight was a part of Roshar prior to Honor and Cultivation arriving. So did Honor “take over” the existing investiture or did he tap into it?

So, all investiture throughout the Cosmere was originally one aspect. That of Adolnalsium. When the original power was splintered into the 16 Shards the investiture was "split" into those intents. With the majority of each Shard's investiture being held by the vessel in the spiritual. However, there are remnants of each shards power still in other places.

Quote

Walin

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

So whatever investiture that existed on Roshar prior to any of the Shards moving there would've remained whatever split of Intents there, however, I take it to be much more formless and more just "raw power". To answer the "take over" part of your question I'll talk about how a shard invests their power.

Quote

Aaronator17

Are the requirements for a Shard to Invest in a shardworld what causes the manifestations that we see (spren on Roshar, lerasium/atium/harmonium/'trellium' on Scadrial, and Tears of Edgli on Nalthis) or are these phenomena the by-product (or intentional action) of the Shards' Investing themselves?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Sept. 27, 2016)

So what Honor and Cultivation really did was take some of their own power from the Spiritual realm and kind of "move" it into the other realms to influence things on the planet (They have perpendicularities so this must be true). I'm not sure that we know all of the ways that they used their power, however, I believe that their investing allowed the creatures on Roshar to adapt and flourish more quickly, as well as modifying the ways that the investiture already worked. (potentially enabling the singers to change forms)

So to answer your original question it's more like tapping into the existing powers and adding more stuff to it. The original investiture still exists (Stormlight) however it is tweaked in a way that suited Honor's goals. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There does seem to be an intelligence to the wind beyond the Stormfather's direct control. At several pivotal moments in the story, a rush of wind will be mentioned (when Jasnah is about to kill Renarin comes immediately to mind but there are several others).

A remnant of Tanavast's personality?  Nohadon?  One of our current heroes claiming the Honor shard in the future and the spiritual realm sending echoes back in time?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.