RightingWrite by Fadran - Fantasy

[Medium]

10 hours ago, DramaQueen said:

....*dislikes audiobooks with a passion*

i feel that.

i do not enjoy audiobooks.

[Mage]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:28 PM, DramaQueen said:

....*dislikes audiobooks with a passion*

Good thing you’re not a Vorin man. Because they have no other choice.

[Frustration]

Just now, Mage said:

Good thing you’re not a Vorin man. Because they have no other choice.

*Laughs in Ardent*

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

*Laughs in Ardent*

*cries in glyphs*

[Medium]

Poor Vorin men...

Thankfully, I'm no Vorin

[Channelknight Fadran]

IMPORTANT:

Nobody gives a crap about whether your characters' looks are impractical or not. Only Shadiversity will make a forty-minute-long video debunking female breastplates and realistic sword battles. If someone's halfway through a book and realizes that someone's hat has stayed on through the duration of a fight, the brief lack of immersion will not be enough to cast the book into the fires of orodruin.

What people will care about is whether or not your characters have interesting fanart.

So let me tell you.

Jeans and a T-Shirt.

are nowhere near as interesting as

Spiky shoulder pads big leather gloves red corset two layers of cardigans and swooshy skirt with big boots.

 

Have fun with your characters, cowards.

And remember that hats are always an option.

[Medium]

no screw you i'm putting my badass female characters in a t-shirt and jeans.

why?

because the fanart will still look hotter than hell.

take for example:

Megan, from the Reckoners.

I rest my case.

[Channelknight Fadran]

Fight Scenes

We’ve all been there. You just came out of the Hinokami Kagura scene in Demon Slayer and your mind has been completely and utterly blown. You’re in shock. You’re in awe. It was so incredible. You think to yourself: Man, that’s what all fight scenes should be like. This is the new standard. This is the new pinnacle.
I am absolutely certain that every single one of you has redeveloped their love for fight scenes and the desire to make them incredible because of that one scene. I’m sure of it. Every human being on the planet is this way.
If, for some reason, you don’t have any clue as to what the scud I’m talking about, then go watch Demon Slayer! That should be a no-brainer for you. It’s an incredible show and totally worth your time. Don’t listen to the jerks who call it “mid” and “a bad anime”; they all watch One Piece and Naruto, which are boring and uneventful. Their opinions are incorrect.
But enough plugging: you want to learn how to make such incredible fight scenes in your own works of art. What part of Tanjiro rushing down Rui with his sun breathing technique makes it so incredible? How did this scene among every other anime battle I had ever watched make me grin my face off like a fool?
That, of course, is what I’m going to teach y’all today.
So, without further ado…

 

- RightingWrite: How to Git Gud at Action Scenes -

 

Part one: The broad
I’m not going to spend too long on this one because there’s a million other people who could tell you exactly what I mean by “your action needs context.” We all know that fight scenes are the highlight of any action/adventure (suck it, plot), but at the same time you have movies chock-full of explosions and bullets that are completely boring! How is it that easily the most captivating forms of scene sequences can also be the most useless?
The answer, of course, is context and pacing. We all know that every good action scene needs to have a big space of story and characters and other stuff between the one before and the one coming next, and that’s because you have to be treating them like you would a plate of brownies.
If you have, say, five brownies, then you could eat them all at the same time. Certainly. It would be tasty and a good time (and probably leave you with a stomachache). But more likely than not, you’re going to wait between eating each one. You’ll have one to begin with once they’re done baking, then put the rest on the counter and let them sit. Then as you go about your day working, reading, studying, etc., you can always reward yourself with having waited and being productive by getting another brownie, and in a way this even makes the experience of eating the brownies even better. This is for two reasons:
Reason one: you’re rewarding yourself for being productive (hooray!)
Reason two: you’re letting the anticipation build, waiting for each second for the brownies to look better and better. The taste of the last one still resides in your mouth, begging for more, but you wait. Soon all you can think about is the next brownie. Then as the hours pass by and you keep going about your day, you finally cave in and get another one… and it’s even more delicious.
And it’s the same for fight scenes!
The thing about action is that it should be savored. It’s an occasion to be relished. They are your brownies, and the story in between each one is the time your reader waits to eat the next. You buildup to the next one using other types of scenes and such, so that when they do pop up they feel extra special.
However, you have to be careful about this. Obviously, you can’t just have [filler], [filler], [filler], [fight scene]; repeat. That’s what Michael Bay does and that’s why nobody cares about Transformers anymore. This makes the fight scenes stale and repetitive; like if instead of brownies you’re interspersing your time with cabbage leaves.
This brings us to the next important facet: context.
A fight scene is only as good as the tension you use to build up to it. You have to establish what the conflict really entails, how dangerous it is, what’s at stake. Avoid what I like to call the Battle Droid Problem: that is, you have to establish that an enemy is worth taking seriously if you want someone to actually stay engaged in the action. Having a bunch of jedi take on a bunch of battle droids is never going to be very engaging because we all know that battle droids are rubbish and jedi are practically indestructible.
I’m struggling to put this into words. Lemme give you an example.
You’ve read Skyward, right? I’m going to use the first battle in Skyward as my example. I really wanted to use the [redacted] scene from Wax n Wayne 4, but obviously that’s a big no-no so I’ll restrain myself. Skyward as a standalone novel is probably one of my favorite Sanderson books ever (which is saying a lot), so I’m choosing it as my champion here out of sheer bias.
In this first battle, all the itty bitty cadet children are unexpectedly thrown into the airspace to blow up some krell and try not to die. It’s pretty short - just a few pages long - and honestly not that much happens in it. Jerkface attacks with his cronies, Spensa follows behind against orders (to the surprise of absolutely no one), they almost all crash into each other a few times, then the flaq blows out the krell’s shield and Kimmalyn snipes it like the gigachad they are. Only Rig takes some damage to his shield, and overall everyone is fine.
However, those pitiful few pages are incredibly memorable, and the reason for that is because of all Sanderson did to build up to it. Of course he developed the characters (Spensa the crazy woman, Jerkface the definitely-not-a-love-interest, Rig the best, etc.) to respond to the situation properly (spontaneity, level-headedness, and puking; respectively), but he also developed the setting and situation. Using Spensa’s loss he established the danger of being a pilot; with the holographic pod chamber doohickeys he established the intricacies of flying a poco; with literally nothing but sheer prose he established just how awesome plasma/laser spaceship cannons are.
If Sanderson had started the story with this flight scene, it would’ve been a boring, pointless mess. It took worldbuilding, character development, tone establishment, and all that jazz to give this scene the perfect feel and flow.
It’s hard to explain, guys. Just… if you have questions, ask. It’s a situational thing.
But frick all that broad scud. Let’s move along to the fight scenes themselves and how to make them awesome.

[Channelknight Fadran]

Part Two: The Suspension Scale

As I see it, there are three types of people in this world: those who love themselves a good long sword fight, those who will yell at you for your sword fights being unrealistic, and the people in between who try to mediate but almost always fail miserably.

I’m a spectacle fan. Really. Honestly, I think people who gatekeep other peoples’ fight scenes are among the most toxic human beings on the face of the planet. I mean, the Inigo Montoya vs Wesley duel is probably the best sword fight in cinematic history, but it was so unrealistic in every conceivable fashion. Do you really want to “well actually” the Princess Bride?

But I digress. Back to the point: fight scene realism. When writing a fight scene, it’s important to designate just how much you’re willing to suspend disbelief. I’m numbering this scale as a rough outline, but will go into greater detail and nuances that will effectively demolish the numbering of realism entirely, so consider yourselves warned.

1. Absolute realism. The fight scene option for hard magic system enthusiasts and the spear people who hate on swords for some reason.
2. Regular “realism.” A lot of the mediator types find themselves here, telling themselves that a little bit of exaggeration is okay as long as the majority of the fight scene is okay. Expect short sword clashes and a decided lack of powerful magic, though.
3. Realism is unimportant. You’re perfectly willing to let a battle drag on for minutes in order to entertain your reader. Battles are often won by the power of friendship or another army miraculously arriving in the nick of time.
4. This is where the fun begins. For standard anime enjoyers and action movie enthusiasts, you decide to throw all conceptions of basic fight scene realism out the window in favor of absolute spectacle. Enjoyment comes first and foremost and fact-checking can come later
5. You’ve officially reached Saitama levels, and it’s not even a question of power or responsibility or anything anymore. Conflicts regularly explode entire cities as collateral damage and characters survive blasts powerful enough to annihilate planets on the daily.

But before I get into demolishing this number system, I’m going to answer the new most obvious matter: what level of realism should you use in your writing?

The answer seems obvious: do what makes you feel best. You’ve surely noticed by now that I laugh in the face of realistic fights and strive for nothing less than incredibly overpowered anime combat, but please don’t take my obvious riffings and biases personally if you really want to write one-slash sword fights between a pair of time-period-accurate knights in time-period-accurate armor.

So let me provide you with the a cohesive, mostly unbiased five-step plan to figure:out what level of realism fits best in your story.

1. First look at your overall plot and character arcs. Define the scale of impact that your particular storyline has.
2. Roughly match your realism type to the story scale. If your protagonist is the Chosen One, destined to defeat the immortal Dark Lord and lead an army to victory against the tyrannical rule of the empire, then you should probably go with a lot of suspension of disbelief. On the other hand, if your story follows a prospective assassin painstakingly making their way up the ranks, you might want to take a more realistic and gritty approach.
3. Now that you’ve selected a realism level, cross-reference it with your various planned fight scenes.Think of the tone and impact that you want each of these scenes to have. Make sure they match the chosen realism level and overall tone of your other fight scenes. While it might make sense for your Chosen One to be constantly engaged in hyper-realistic combat against orcs and wizards, if the final battle against the Dark Lord is supposed to be god-tier-powers versus god-tier-powers then you might want to remove some realism from earlier fight scenes so as not to jar your reader too much.
4. Make sure to really define how power functions in your story. Is it simply by combat prowess and years of harsh training, or does your magic concentrate in promising individuals to grant them powers above all other mortals? Really define your scale in reference to how realistic you want it to be.
5. Ask Fadran for help if ou have any questions, because he’s totally willing to assist!

So now that you’ve figured that part out, allow me to explain to you why figuring that part out is frankly unimportant.

The problem here is that the best stories are often inconsistent. I recently(ish) read Eye of the World from Wheel of Time, and was quite shocked by the ending. The entire book was about a bunch of kids being led by an elementalist witch lady through a kingdom full of discount orcs wielding regular swords and riding atop regular horses, then suddenly jumps to Rand with literal god powers fighting off the Dark Lord. As a concept this doesn’t seem to work very well in terms of power level consistency, yet in the story it functions exactly as it should.

Similarly, there are plenty of stories about god-level heroes and villains facing against each other, but in momentary bursts of prowess rather than epic drawn-out battles of magical might. Best example I can think of are the earlier episodes of Demon Slayer, where the fight scenes might seem really long-winded and unrealistic, but rarely include very many attacks from the main characters at all. Tanjiro only ever makes a couple actual offenses against his enemies when it comes down to it: all the rest of the fight is usually him dodging attacks and closing the gap to set up for a single strike: very akin to sword fights like in real life (probably).

So what am I saying here? Well, it’s simple, really. You can’t trap a story to one single level of disbelief. You have to borrow aspects of adjacents—or even far-off levels—in order to keep things spicy. Need to illustrate how underpowered your protagonist is? Make an early villain a step over them in the realism scale. Want to ground your Level 20 wizard a little? Have every strike go with precision and purpose into the army of CR ¼ goblins rather than smiting them with a big laser beam.

The idea is to hold your reader’s expectations to a certain threshold before bending the rules, granting just the right amount of impact to whatever it is you’re trying to write out. Nobody’s going to care if your MCs rival is just “better” at swordsmanship; you have to establish this dominance through how much you change the pace for them.

But enough of that. Seriously. I said to “frick this broad scud,” but here I still am. Certainly it’s a lot more focused on the fight scenes themselves than the fluff surrounding them, but I still have yet to post anything about writing action.

That’ll be Part Three. Stay tuned.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Ookla the [Redacted]

[Channelknight Fadran]

At some point I'm going to rewatch the Super Mario Bros. movie and figure out how the hell they managed to get it right, because everything about that writing was paper thin and mechnically incorrect but for some reason I loved it.

[Mat]

7 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

At some point I'm going to rewatch the Super Mario Bros. movie and figure out how the hell they managed to get it right, because everything about that writing was paper thin and mechnically incorrect but for some reason I loved it.

I mean, I think nostalgia and Easter eggs were a big part of that.

[Channelknight Fadran]

But usually when I watch nostalgia and easter egg movies I don't like them. But for some reason for this one I did

[Channelknight Fadran]

How many people are following this thread still...

fifteen, huh?

...

...how many active people are still following this thread?

 

Six, if I'm being generous. Fewer if I'm realistic.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, this is a reminder to future me to put some stuff here. Maybe.

[Scars of Hathsin]

I would like that, I could probably get help with writing, and your writing is very good

[Trutharchivist]

What measure do you consider active? That is the question.

Also, will be happy to see. I've finally started (for the second time) working on something that might resemble a book.

[Channelknight Fadran]

WRITING ADVICE:

get the right music

 

Don't listen to that cremscat "pop" stuff that millennials are putting out nowadays - expand beyond all two genres of modern "music" that are "Why won't this girl make out with me" and "This boy I used to have make out with broke up with me."

In fact, forgo lyrics altogether. You want to write? Don't unnecessarily put extra words in your brain. Trying to write to a song you know the lyrics to is like trying to write two stories at the same time, and it will not work.

No, don't listen to music. Listen to the right music. Find a playlist with instrumentals, and compile all the songs that fit the vibe.

What's that? You don't know where to start? Well, too bad there isn't an entire genre of wordless music made expressly to elicit specific emotions for a storytelling medium.

OH WAIT.

Video Game OSTs are, by far, the best source of inspiration for grinding out several pages of your next project. I'm something a Nintendo purist who dabbles here and there in Sonic the Hedgehog and Final Fantasy - all of which refuse to stay posted on youtube for any extended period of time, but all that really means is that I have to periodically update my links. In fact, I don't really keep any "saved" playlists / compilations anyway - I just think of what OST works the best for the scene at hand and look it up.

The protagonist is strolling through a forest on their way to some town or whatever? Chill Legend of Zelda. A superpowered supercharacter is engaged in a godlike duel to the death? Kirby all the way. Writing a lightsaber battle in Jedi Insurgence? Metroid Boss Battle Themes, babeyyy.

I don't have the time or the energy to list out the definitive list of game OST selections by vibe, so if you need suggestions just lmk. If you have a pretty good idea of what vibe you need your writing to elicit, then I can probably get pretty darn close with at least some OSTs. Sometimes I'll go even further beyond and listen to anime stuff (Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Hunter x Hunter), or go for LoFi covers to relax my brain, or just put on literally any of Insaneintherain's VG Jazz Covers because they work for every situation somehow.

Also when in doubt go with Mario. If you're not trying to write the edgiest thriller or the goofiest comedy, then all the Super Mario OSTs work great for middle-ground stuff.

[Channelknight Fadran]

 

 

Did you know that most people have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to "Hard" or "Soft" Magic Systems? You might think that's a bit conceited for me to say, to which I reply, "Hah! You've activated my trap card: Writer's Rant! The opponent is compelled to listen through the end of whatever the Writer has to say, regardless of how much Hunter x Hunter content is thrown in."

Yes. Once you have achieved Nen Enlightenment, there is no turning back.

Anyway, allow me to explain myself. If you're like me, then you were rather confused whenever people used Bending as an example of a Hard Magic System; I mean, it's up there with Allomancy? And Alchemy? And... probably several other systems that start with A? It seems a little weird putting "do a karate move and summon fire" up there with Equivalent Exchange, and for the longest time I always assumed these losers had no idea what they were talking about. Just because there are four distinct elements, doesn't mean the system is Hard - and in fact, to an extent, I still stand by that.

However

A Hard Magic System does not mean a Rigid Magic System. Too many people assume that Hard Magic Systems have to have this incredibly intricate set of fundamental rules and limitations, with each application being its own clear separate category and league. I know for a fact that I used to do this a lot; one of my absolute earliest magic systems was just a laundry list of basic fantasy stuff packed into a wheel of symbols. A good example of a Rigid Magic System would be Allomancy, which (obviously) has clear conditions and actions by use of Omf Nomf love me some tasty pewter; and let me be clear that Allomancy is great. Sanderson's best magic system, even if it's not my favorite. However, if you try to use it as an example of a Hard Magic System, then you're going to seriously mislead yourself.

"Rigid" means you have a clear and concise set of rules - these systems are pretty great if you know what you're doing, but a lot of people will just tack on random limitations to check the boxes. "Hard," on the other hand, simply means that how the Magic works is established. With Bending, you know that 1) Bending can only be performed by Benders, 2) each Bender can only Bend one type of element, 3) how well you Bend that element depends on a combination of training, enlightenment, and emotion, 4) the Avatar can Bend all four for some reason.

It's established to the viewers that Bending Prowess = Talent x (Training + Understanding). That rule is never broken (except for when someone enters the Avatar state, which has its own set of rules), meaning the Magic System is Hard. We can expect the developments in fights and training arcs based on these rules, and even learn to recognize Benders prematurely by how they think and act. Despite the fact that Bending itself doesn't require a massive checklist of conditions to fulfil, it still counts as Hard; so as long as we can expect what will happen with its use.

So what's a Soft Magic System, then? I used to think it just mean "Magic Without Rules," but in reality it's more like "Magic Without an Established Consistent Canon." Let's go the LotR route here, because Eru forbid I talk about anything without bringing up Tolkien.

In The Hobbit, the most we learn about Gandalf's magic is in a single line after the dwarves escape the goblins, where he says something to the effect of "I had to store up my magic for many minutes in order to cast that spell of darkness," implying it works something like ki; but then again, he was clearly capable of calling upon vast amounts of it on a dime in order to face off against a flippin Balrog. So which is it? We have no idea. Do the Staffs do anything, like Saruman implied? How is it that Gandalf can have a level of prescience and yet remain the dark about so many things? If Sauron poured all his life force into the Ring, how is it that he got a positive return on the power whilst wearing it? What the hell is the difference between Darkness and Light, and why is it that it can randomly counter the other without any noticeable difference in overall power? How in the world did Elrond program a literal river to explode if the Nazgul Proximity Alarms went off??

But we love it anyway, because the LotR Magic follows a different type of consistency: Tonal. Specifically for this case, a sense of Mystery, Wonder, and Mythicism. We don't know how the Magic works, but if Tolkien says "Gandalf's magic cannot work here; the Darkness is too strong," we just go with it, because it makes sense anyways. It's the same reason why we can look at ancient myths and legends about dragons and gods and demons; Medusa's face is ugly enough to turn any man into stone, so shouldn't that work through a mirror too? The Nemean Lion's hide can deflect any blade, but it's never explained why. Why the heck did Loki give birth to so many eldritch horrors?

The stories are about describing legends and heroes, not any of this "complexity" crap. Lord of the Rings, Legend of Zelda, Star Wars... an argument could be made for whatever the heck Rowling was doing, but I'd like to keep that can of worms closed tight and buried deep beneath the bridge of Kazad-Dum. The ones I'm electing to acknowledge are less of stories about complex characters and realism and crap, and more about telling a Legend, a Myth, or an Epic. In fact, I urge you all to start going through stories with Soft Magic and Worldbuilding, and to enjoy them as Myths instead of Stories; the idea of Eowyn slaying the Witch-King of Angmar, or Anakin Skywalker turning to the Dark Side hit way harder if you do.

 

...where was I? I think I was supposed to be talking about Hard Magic Systems. Blast it, Tolkien, you've gone and got me digressing again.

Which means I should probably wrap things up by way of the Best Magic System of All Time: Nen.

That's right. Nen. Three letters. It means "Sense," "Mind Force," or (perhaps) "Willpower" in Japanese, because Yoshihiro Togashi knew exactly what he was going for with this. For those of you not in the know, I first urge you to go watch and/or read Hunter x Hunter; it is The Best, and I Love It. For everyone else... okay, you know exactly why this system is the best. But for the gray area in between, I will explain.

Nen is a magical art form, based off a person's Life Force (usually referred to as Aura). This energy is directly tied to a person's willpower, as demonstrated through training and study; and like all forms of energy, it can be converted. After you discover your Aura and learn to control it (through a series of techniques, like Ten and Ren and Gyo; basically just being able to manipulate how your Aura flows), you can begin to apply it into various abilities. Basic applications include just coating your fists in the stuff to punch someone really hard, or surrounding your vital areas to defend against even the toughest of weapons; but eventually, you will ahve to discover your Nen Affinity - and, subsequently, develop a Hatsu.

There are six Nen Affinities: Enhancer, Transmuter, Manipulator, Conjurer, Emitter, and Specialist. Each of these demonstrate a major application of Aura - Enhancement allows you to imbue yourself, others, or things in Aura to make them stronger; Transmutation allows you to change the properties of your own Aura for fancy new effects; Manipulation is what it says on the tin, letting your control stuff; Conjuration, obviously, lets you Conjure objects (usually with far more potent properties than what a regular equivalent of the object might be); Emission is the process of detaching Aura from your body, often as a means of providing others with energy or just to shoot them with laser beams; and Specialization is the catch-all for the weirdos that don't really fit anywhere else.

At birth*, you are pretty much just randomly-assigned one of these Affinities. However, your natural Affinity does not lock you into using only that type of Nen; instead, it just means you're most efficient with that form. There's a handy chart for this that I'm going avoid adding because either you've seen it never or you've seen it a kvghillion times, but basically the six Affinities are placed around a hexagonal ring, each one at a point; the farther your natural Affinity is from another application, the less efficient you'll be at using it (with the exception of Specialist, because it doesn't make sense by definition).

So you think "well that's pretty neat; it'd be like if everyone was the Avatar, but mostly focused on one or two Elements instead of mastery in all four," but it gets EVEN COOLER THAN THAT. Because when creating a Hatsu (did I say what that was? It's your personalized Nen Ability.), there's another incredibly epic system with the simplest rules ever but also the best rules ever: Nen Conditions. Are you a natural Transmuter but really want to Conjure a Nen Sword? Is your Aura a bit on the weak side for something like that? Well look no further, my friend, because you can imbue your Hatsu with a fancy-schmancy Condition to make up the disparity! Something simple like speaking the sword's name aloud could be enough to significantly decrease the Aura Cost of using this ability, whereas something like "Can only be used once per day" or "Will drain the user's health if they don't stab someone with it within fifteen seconds" will not only make up the difference, but could even provide additional power to the Ability, like allowing it supernatural sharpness or speed!

If you're confused, that's fine. That's the point. And we haven't even started going through stuff like combining Affinities, Nen Curses, Nen Exorcism, all of Greed Island... because this system can accomodate anything and everything; to the point that you could probably explain any Magic System ever created as an application of Nen. Stormlight, Bending, The Force, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Jujutsu Kaisen, whatever the hell was going on Wizard of Oz...

...have I contributed anything beneficial here? Has this whole thing just been me ranting without explaining how to actually apply magic systems to storytelling?

Maybe this should've been an SU.

 

 

 

 

TOO LATE

Let's salvage this with some bullet points:

• A Hard Magic System has a level of Internal Consistency established to the audience
  • as opposed to a Rigid Magic System, which is a branch of Hardies that has a strict set of rules.
• A Soft Magic System follows a Tonal, Narrative, or otherwise Story-Related Consistency, instead of a Functional one.
  • In general, if you want to do one of these, go for No Thoughts; Head Empty; Vibes Only. Ever seen Howl's Moving Castle? There's your prime example.
• Watch and/or read Hunter x Hunter. It is incredible. It is worth your time. If you don't like it, watch NewWorldReview on youtube; he will change your mind.
  • If that doesn't work, you're probably best sticking to boring old Realistic Fiction or something like that
    • that was a joke, write what you want, I'm not trying to gatekeep fantasy
      • but like... I'm not wrong
• I can help you brainstorm, develop, and rework Magic Systems! Turns out I poured a lot of my autism points into deciphering tonal consistencies and The Vibe Machine, so I spot weird issues pretty naturally.
  • Also feel free to tell me off if I ruin something because I tend to do that. How Magic Systems work in Fadranbrain is very tightly-established, so I can occasionally be... insistent.
• Also I forgot to bring this up but like... I don't like Sanderson's "Laws" of Magic? First of all, calling them "Laws" without citations or peer-reviewed redrafts or clear scientific data means they're either fraudulous or straight-up wrong; but also they should really be regarded as more of guidelines than actual rules.
  • "The author's ability to resolve conflicts in a satisfying way with magic is directly proportional to how the reader understands said magic." DUNNO. I will advocate for Gandalf vs the Balrog as a more satisfying scene than a lot of his much more significantly-explained sequences, but the idea itself isn't actually that far off. Maybe I'm more annoyed by how this "law" is perceived than what it actually says, but I take issue with the idea that you have to explain your magic for it to be satisfying, because it implies that the author basically has to explain the rules in order to do anything with it. A lot of my favorite Magic System moments are ones where what's happening is explained in the moment, or if they're foreshadowing something to be explained later on; for some great examples of this, I recommend Jujutsu Kaisen (And also HxH, ofc, but that goes without saying).
  • "Weaknesses are more interesting than powers." DISAGREE. Limitations provide more tension than boundless powers, but they are not more "interesting." There's a reason why characters like Gojo Satoru and Saitama are so compelling, and it certainly isn't because they have some secret super-kryptonite that renders them completely powerless. I love massively overpowered paragon characters. I think a better way to word this would be "Defining your powers makes them cooler," because there are tons of magic systems with little to no real weaknesses (Nen, Ki... probably JoJo's, but I'm still watching through that so idk), but rather a clear and intuitive system by which they operate; it's how the characters manipulate this system to their needs that makes them so interesting.
  • "Expand what you have before you add something new." THIS ONE IS GOOD. Honestly it's kind of just the last point. All these rules could probably be one rule, probably.
• The Fadran Theory of Magic: How you establish your Magic System determines how it can be used.

[Trutharchivist]

All right, great! So, a few things:

Regarding Nen, if Specialist doesn't really fit the system of "it's closer to your Affinity so you're better at it", then why is it on the hexagon on the first place? Why not make it a pentagon with a blob on the side that says "Specialist"?

Regarding Sanderson's second law: I didn't watch all that much from One Punch Man, so I might be wrong, but aren't the interesting fights when he for some reason is unable to punch someone, or his punch doesn't finish them off, or there's some other issue? It's not a weakness, but it is a limitation. Again, I might be - and probably am - wrong here, but since conflict makes for interesting stories it follows that limitations help create conflict.

Also, every time someone says "watch Howl's Moving Castle" I get a little uncomfortable, because... the book is great! It also has a somewhat interesting magic system - I'd argue that most types of magic in Diana Wynne Jones' books are more intuitive than necessarily sensible. So... I don't know, I need to think about it more, but read Diana Wynne Jones. She has really good books. 

(Also, maybe I should read Hunter x Hunter. This magic system does sound interesting.)

[Aeoryi]

I still am waiting for the paragonal characters lecture 

[Edema Rue]

That was very fun to read  

Magic systems are so cool.

[justice magician]

I guess I really have no excuses left, huh

Edited October 6, 2023 by Justice_Magician

[Channelknight Fadran]

9 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

All right, great! So, a few things:

Regarding Nen, if Specialist doesn't really fit the system of "it's closer to your Affinity so you're better at it", then why is it on the hexagon on the first place? Why not make it a pentagon with a blob on the side that says "Specialist"?

Remember how I brought up how your Affinity determines how efficient you are at other Affinity Types?

There's actually a mathematical thingamajig here. Let's say you're a natural Enhancer; that means with 100% Aura input, you'd get 100% Enhancer output. With Transmutation and Emission, you'd need 120% Aura input to get 100% Nen output; with Conjuration and Manipulation, it becomes 140%. The numbers themselves don't come up all that often because Nen very rarely becomes a case of Aura Attrition, but it's an important factor to consider.

Specialization, however, has a 0% output if you're not a Specialist. Doesn't matter where you are on the ring: you can't Specialize. However, if you're a natural Specialist, then you can spec into Conjuration & Manipulation at a 120/100 rate, and so on and so forth.

Also you can't have a pentagon because it would break some numbers. Currently a Conjurer has a 160/100 for Emission, but if you removed Specialist then it'd become 140/100 alongside Enhancement. Also also because Nen is based on your Willpower, there's a slight chance you can change Affinities down the line; this process is rare, relatively undocumented, and generally unheard of. However, there are cases of Nen Users (especially Conjurers and Manipulators) becoming Specialists by this process; sometimes you'll see charts that place Specialization at a 1% Output for Conjurers and Manipulators because of this.

9 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

Regarding Sanderson's second law: I didn't watch all that much from One Punch Man, so I might be wrong, but aren't the interesting fights when he for some reason is unable to punch someone, or his punch doesn't finish them off, or there's some other issue? It's not a weakness, but it is a limitation. Again, I might be - and probably am - wrong here, but since conflict makes for interesting stories it follows that limitations help create conflict.

Also, every time someone says "watch Howl's Moving Castle" I get a little uncomfortable, because... the book is great! It also has a somewhat interesting magic system - I'd argue that most types of magic in Diana Wynne Jones' books are more intuitive than necessarily sensible. So... I don't know, I need to think about it more, but read Diana Wynne Jones. She has really good books. 

(Also, maybe I should read Hunter x Hunter. This magic system does sound interesting.)

Saitama Thing: yeah, I see what you mean. I think it's up to preference on this one, but most of Saitama's best moments are when he's not even trying - like when he One-Punched the monsters for exploding his roof, or during the Cosmic Garou fight where he won (I kid you not) with a fart. The story often sets up the gag of "Oh no... this... this is a problem..." before punchlining you with the fact that Saitama's not even paying attention and is only worried because he suddenly realized the sale he wanted to go to was going to end soon.

And honestly, I think I might have to concede to Brandon here because the difference between Limitations and Weaknesses is really important. To refer back to Nen, pretty much 75% of what makes the system so awesome is that you have to create your own Conditions for your powers to work. I think where he's wrong is more with "what your magic can't do is more interesting that what it can," because I think a better way to define an equation like Limitations > Power would be something like "What your magic can do is less interesting than how it can do it."

But even then I'm not entirely convinced that that's what I'm thinking. My brain works in vibes, not words; it takes hours upon days to really figure out what I'm thinking about.

Howl's Moving Castle: I love the movie AND I WANT TO READ THE BOOK BUT I CAN'T FIND IT WHERE THE HECK DID IT GO HELP

will get back to you on that front once this issue has been remedied

also the movie in subbed Japanese is 8000 times more magical I cannot recommend it enough

anyway: HUNTER x HUNTER IS THE BEST ONE

8 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

I still am waiting for the paragonal characters lecture 

Me too

3 hours ago, Edema Rue said:

That was very fun to read  

Magic systems are so cool.

46 minutes ago, Justice_Magician said:

I guess I really have no excuses left now, huh

Concur

[justice magician]

Quote

Howl's Moving Castle: I love the movie AND I WANT TO READ THE BOOK BUT I CAN'T FIND IT WHERE THE HECK DID IT GO HELP

please please read it, its one of the best books I've ever read bro.

A quick google shows several places you can buy it online, you local library might have a copy as well (mine did, so maybe it's not too obscure).

[Frustration]

10 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

 

I'm going to disagree here.

Plot holes are part of how I judge a book, if the author cared about their work enough to ensure their aren't any plot holes then it's probably pretty good.

Example: LotR is some 70 years old and has exactly zero plot holes. (To others reading this who are not Fadran: Don't give me the whole 'theu could fly the eagles to Mordor' that is a movie problem. The books explained quite well that they needed to be sneaky, and giant eagles are not sneaky.) Excellent piece of work.

Compare this to say Harry Potter, which is only some 27 years old and it's like a reverse swiss cheese. Small pockets of consistent plot suspended in a massive hole of inconsistency. End result: pretty mid and getting worse every year.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Frustration

[Channelknight Fadran]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

I'm going to disagree here.

Plot holes are part of how I judge a book, if the author cared about their work enough to ensure their aren't any plot holes then it's probably pretty good.

Example: LotR is some 70 years old and has exactly zero plot holes. (To others reading this who are not Fadran: Don't give me the whole 'theu could fly the eagles to Mordor' that is a movie problem. The books explained quite well that they needed to be sneaky, and giant eagles are not sneaky.) Excellent piece of work.

I... don't like that approach

but if we can agree that LotR is incredible then I suppose I can forgive you this once