RightingWrite by Fadran - Fantasy

[Bearer of all agonies]

I like Batman. He’s. . . Dark. 

[Channelknight Fadran]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

No Fadran cults. Cults are my thing, although Fish is showing me up while on the Shard..........

 

Also, I am now going to argue debate @Channelknight Fadran about this point

Character arcs are overrated

I'll explain

Who here likes Batman?

Everyone, everyone like Batman because you aren't monsters.

What is Batman's character arc?

there isn't one

well, maybe in some niche story but for all intents and purposes there isn't one.

Why do we still like Batman? Because he's Batman, he's awesome just how he is, change would make him less interesting.

Now, are character arcs useful? Yes, OB would be super boring without Dalinar's arc.

Can they be overdone, yes, ever re-read OB? The arc being fulfilled is a one time thing and there isn't enough WOW! to make up for it.

TL;DR

Character arcs are more of a seasoning than a main course and anyone who tells you they are necessary is dead wrong.

Spoiler

 

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

*sad Frustration noises*

[Channelknight Fadran]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

*sad Frustration noises*

I was half-stalling then to try and figure out a way to explain the necessity of character arcs. Fortunately, it worked, because I have an explanation!

In a book, you need characters. With characters, you need arcs. These are the things that I, as an aspiring author, just kind of understand inately. It's not exactly something I can explain. If it seems like I'm just directly contradicting your argument with no evidence, then you would be correct: I have presented no evidence yet.

Or have I? *Devious Fadran noises*

See, if we assume that characters need arcs, then by claiming that arcs are really just flavor for a book, then you are by extension claiming that characters are just flavor for a book. I can't actually use your example of Batman to explain this, though, because... I don't watch the Batman movies (I've seen that hilariously terrible one from 1966 and the lego one). However, I can use your example as Dalinar, because--get this--I've read the Stormlight Archives.

I know. Shocker. Jumpscare of the century (it is spooky season).

I'll be referring to Dalinar's arc in Oathbringer as a primary example for my explanation here. I agree with what you said on how his arc was really entertaining the first time, but not so much the second time; this much is true for everything. Whenever you read/watch something for the first time, there's that surprise factor that makes things so much more amazing. That surprise factor isn't there when you go back and reread/watch it. That isn't to say that it can't be enjoyed, however.

I imagine that when most people hear the words "character arc," they assume "character change." I.E. a character becomes better because of what they learned. This, fortunately, is false. A character arc doesn't have to end in change. Take Gollum, for example, from Lord of the Rings. His entire arc was him trying to take the Ring back from Frodo. If Tolkien had wanted to incorporate change into Gollum, then he would've made it so that Gollum eventually lets go of his attachment to the Ring, choosing something else over its lure. Heck, even Frodo didn't manage to change in the end; the only reason the Ring was destroyed at all was because Frodo and Gollum were fighting over it and Gollum just happened to trip and fall into a lava pit.

If we were to have a similar arc for Dalinar, then he would've become Odium's champion. He wouldn't have fought off the Thrill, and he would've chosen to keep his pain (did I just write that independent clause? @DramaQueen). If he had fallen and become Odium's champion, then that would've also been pretty dang cool. There wasn't any change involved here: only a failure to make the right choice.

The key word there is choice. Character arcs are just characters making choices. That's all there is to it. Whether those choices be good or bad--right or wrong--they're still choices, and, by extension, arcs.

Dear gosh, this turned out to be way longer than I expected it do.

Welp... I guess don't die.

~Fadran.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

I was half-stalling then to try and figure out a way to explain the necessity of character arcs. Fortunately, it worked, because I have an explanation!

In a book, you need characters. With characters, you need arcs. These are the things that I, as an aspiring author, just kind of understand inately. It's not exactly something I can explain. If it seems like I'm just directly contradicting your argument with no evidence, then you would be correct: I have presented no evidence yet.

Or have I? *Devious Fadran noises*

See, if we assume that characters need arcs, then by claiming that arcs are really just flavor for a book, then you are by extension claiming that characters are just flavor for a book. I can't actually use your example of Batman to explain this, though, because... I don't watch the Batman movies (I've seen that hilariously terrible one from 1966 and the lego one). However, I can use your example as Dalinar, because--get this--I've read the Stormlight Archives.

I know. Shocker. Jumpscare of the century (it is spooky season).

I'll be referring to Dalinar's arc in Oathbringer as a primary example for my explanation here. I agree with what you said on how his arc was really entertaining the first time, but not so much the second time; this much is true for everything. Whenever you read/watch something for the first time, there's that surprise factor that makes things so much more amazing. That surprise factor isn't there when you go back and reread/watch it. That isn't to say that it can't be enjoyed, however.

I imagine that when most people hear the words "character arc," they assume "character change." I.E. a character becomes better because of what they learned. This, fortunately, is false. A character arc doesn't have to end in change. Take Gollum, for example, from Lord of the Rings. His entire arc was him trying to take the Ring back from Frodo. If Tolkien had wanted to incorporate change into Gollum, then he would've made it so that Gollum eventually lets go of his attachment to the Ring, choosing something else over its lure. Heck, even Frodo didn't manage to change in the end; the only reason the Ring was destroyed at all was because Frodo and Gollum were fighting over it and Gollum just happened to trip and fall into a lava pit.

If we were to have a similar arc for Dalinar, then he would've become Odium's champion. He wouldn't have fought off the Thrill, and he would've chosen to keep his pain (did I just write that independent clause? @DramaQueen). If he had fallen and become Odium's champion, then that would've also been pretty dang cool. There wasn't any change involved here: only a failure to make the right choice.

The key word there is choice. Character arcs are just characters making choices. That's all there is to it. Whether those choices be good or bad--right or wrong--they're still choices, and, by extension, arcs.

Dear gosh, this turned out to be way longer than I expected it do.

Welp... I guess don't die.

~Fadran.

 

*maniacal Frustration noises*

So it's choice? Where does this come in then?

17 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Anyways, there are a variety of archetypes for character arcs, but they all follow a basic formula:

• False belief
• Growth
• Change

By you're own definition, this is an arc, and you're right with maybe a side of they also can learn instead of grow, but it's fine.

Additionally you have forgotten that you assume a character must have an arc, they don't

List

Spoiler

Most every Superhero before MCU started,

James Bond,

Hoid(So far),

Gandalf,

Morgoth,

Sauron,

Eli Monpress,

Kelsier,

Wayne,

Ron Weasly

99% of mentor characters

Comic Relief Characters

etc

 These are what we refer to as Static Characters, Characters that do not undergo change, and they are fine for it.

 

As to things not being as interesting the second time while yes everything losses some of it's flavor, there are others that I can read again with barely anything lost

Battle of the Tower, The Duel, Kaladin Vs Szeth parts 1 & 2, The Spear that Would not Break Etc. Action, combat, spectacle tends to retain more of it's interest through re-reads than Character arcs do. A good Author, much like a good chef, must know how much arc to put in and how much spectacle. To leave your reader with a good first bite and after taste. Back to my seasoning analogy, a book with no change in character, will be bland and tasteless, a book that is only change is inedible.   

[Channelknight Fadran]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

*maniacal Frustration noises*

So it's choice? Where does this come in then?

By you're own definition, this is an arc, and you're right with maybe a side of they also can learn instead of grow, but it's fine.

That's the basic formula for almost every character arc there is. Pulling off a failure arc is really hard to do, so doing the 'ol character change is generally the best option.

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Additionally you have forgotten that you assume a character must have an arc, they don't

List

  Reveal hidden contents

Most every Superhero before MCU started,

James Bond,

Hoid(So far),

Gandalf,

Morgoth,

Sauron,

Eli Monpress,

Kelsier,

Wayne,

Ron Weasly

99% of mentor characters

Comic Relief Characters

etc

 These are what we refer to as Static Characters, Characters that do not undergo change, and they are fine for it.

Oh, absolutely. I don't think I ever said that all characters needed an arc, but just to make sure, no, not all characters need an arc.

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

As to things not being as interesting the second time while yes everything losses some of it's flavor, there are others that I can read again with barely anything lost

Battle of the Tower, The Duel, Kaladin Vs Szeth parts 1 & 2, The Spear that Would not Break Etc. Action, combat, spectacle tends to retain more of it's interest through re-reads than Character arcs do. A good Author, much like a good chef, must know how much arc to put in and how much spectacle. To leave your reader with a good first bite and after taste. Back to my seasoning analogy, a book with no change in character, will be bland and tasteless, a book that is only change is inedible.   

This ^ ^ ^ so much. A lot of stories fail by putting in too much of one or the other. This is why I was so blown away when I was watching Captain America: Civil War last night: pacing and theme aside, their balance of plot, character, and epic action scenes were perfect.

[Bearer of all agonies]

Don't die? Did you get that from Unwanteds, or something else?

Clive.

[Channelknight Fadran]

7 minutes ago, Bearer of all agonies said:

Don't die? Did you get that from Unwanteds, or something else?

Dear gosh, I haven't read those in awhile...

[Frustration]

19 minutes ago, Bearer of all agonies said:

Don't die? Did you get that from Unwanteds, or something else?

Clive.

 

12 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Dear gosh, I haven't read those in awhile...

I remember those

Anyone else have trouble with the sequel series?

[Bearer of all agonies]

Me. 

But is that where you got it Fadran?

[Channelknight Fadran]

Romance scenes!

I've been debating on writing a lesson on these for awhile, and now that @Aspiring Writer seems all for it, I might as well! (I'm also interested in hearing what @Condensation has to say...)

I think my original inspiration for this was when I was reading a book about how to write. It was pretty dang good, but their chapter on romance scenes seemed a little... skewed. I remember them specifically describing romance scenes as people having sex. I remember thinking, wait, what? Really? That's the official definition for a romance scene? Geeze, this world's more messed up than I thought it was.

I just looked up the actual definition of a romance scene, and I don't know what that book was thinking, because while the definitions often included an option for highly passionate stuff (scud, that last word totally broke up the flow of that sentence), they also included things such as "a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love." Obviously, there's a gradient scale here, and I intend to define it!

Romance scenes are, in my own opinion, just any scenes used to build a supposed 'love arc,' whether that be Harry stealing glances at Cho Chang or Blushweaver being Blushweaver. I've decided to first create a Scale of Romance that you can rate your own romance writing on, then describe how to write... most of them (I've never tried and hope to never to try writing a straight-out sex scene). So without further ado... a scale! Whoo!

1. Very low passion. Probably nothing more than someone stealing glances at their crush (Harry and Cho Chang).
2. Admittance. Maybe they're flirting with somebody, or admitting to someone that they like someone (the early stages of Queedran).
3. Physical contact. Hugging, hand-holding, maybe a peck on the cheek, etc (the current stage of Queedran)
4. Kissing. Not to be confused with making out. There's a difference (Harry and Ginny).
5. Making out. You wade into the pool of dangerous love scenes by doing this (Megan and that one guy in Steelheart).
6. Passionate physical contact. I think I'll not describe this in detail (Straff Venture and Amortentia (that was her name, right?)).
7. Implied/connotated reproduction event. That was the kindest word I could give it (Siri and Susebron)
8. Hetsu. <-- this is a reference to a really naive character that, if you approach without wearing any armor in Breath of the Wild, will start shouting "you are nekked! I am nekked! We are united in exposure!" If that gives you guys the wrong impression of Breath of the Wild, then don't worry; one could argue it isn't even an innuendo in the first place, just Hetsu being Hetsu (David and Megan near the end of Firefight).
9. Mating. If you describe the process in any way, then you've gotten yourself a 9.
10. Graphic mating. You've gone into way too much detail and you've ought to rethink your life choices.

Just a little side note; there's a bit of a gray area around 5 and up, where you've implied that someone has gone and disregarded Pattern's advice but you haven't explained exactly when, how, or with who. Most of Blushweaver can be found in this gray area. There's also a small gray area between 2 and 4 where you're sexually attracted to someone as opposed to just regularly attracted, I.E. looking a little lower than their eyes or imagining yourself making out with them or something.

I'll be explaining 1-4 in detail, and possibly 5 in less detail. So without further ado...

1: Glance-stealing! This one isn't super hard to pull off. I find it easier to show a character staring at someone else from a different character's POV, but that doesn't mean that first-person crushes are difficult. The purpose of these scenes are to develop the fact that a character likes/is attracted to someone, not to give us a romantic payoff moment. That isn't to say it can't be romantic payoff; it's just be pretty darned difficult to develop that.

Crush POV: 

Bob couldn't help but watch Mary as she bent over, hair falling in front of her face as she picked up the water bottle. "Did you drop this?" She asked, standing up and smiling.

He was suddenly very aware of how sweaty his palms were. "Uh... yeah."

Other POV:

He rolled his eyes as Bob's eyes followed Mary. When she turned to look back at Bob, he blushed, and David had himself a good quiet chuckle.

2: I personally find it really funny to watch people awkwardly stumble their way through admitting they have a crush on someone--at least, in writing. These stages are important for people who aren't romantically adept (I.E. just about everybody), and help us segue into the comfort zone.

"Hey, uh, Mary. I was, uh, wondering if, uh..." Bob was stumbling over his own words.

Mary smiled at him. "Yes?"

"I was, uh, wondering if, maybe you wanted to, uh... go to this, um... thing on Friday."

She blushed a little. "Of course! What... thing?

3: Hugging! This is the beginning of the comfort zone. You could probably skip it and move right into kissing, but if you want to draw the romance out, then I wouldn't skip this step. Allow me to cite the Fellowship of the Thing...

After a moment of indecision, Fadran quietly slides his hand into Queen's.

Queen jolts slightly with surprise, then smiles, moves closer, and puts her head on Fadran's shoulder.

4: Kissing! I did help Connie write a Daolan/Herate kissing scene, and I was going to find the one where Jek and Vapor kissed, but I can't find it, so... I guess Bob and Mary will make a comeback.

I also recommend dynamic lighting during kissing scenes (sunrise, lightning, explosions... etc)

Bob realized that he was strangely comfortable with Mary sitting beside him; even if her hand was placed atop his. Her head rested on his shoulder for a moment, before she picked it back up again to gawk at a particularly bluish firework. She looked at him to see his expression, excitement turning to comfortable happiness as she looked into his eyes.

"What?" He asked.

"I just like seeing how much you've grown since ninth grade."

"Two years. It's been two years. Two years today. I feel like we should do something special for it."

A red beam streaked into the air. Everyone on the lawn seemed to hold their breath, knowing instinctively that it would be a big one.

"I have something special."

Bob cocked his head. "You do?"

"Yep! It's this."

The firework went off, illuminating everything in a bright, almost pink light, and Mary wrapped her arm around Bob's neck, pressing her lips to his.

When she pulled away and the illumination had faded off, Bob blinked in surprise. "I--"

"Happy anniversary."

As for making out... what you're trying to do with that kind of thing is develop that someone's either sexually attracted to someone or isn't ashamed with getting a little passonate. I won't be describing how to write those scenes.

I... can't believe I just wrote all that.

Don't die!

~Fadran

(And no, Bearer, I don't think I got that from Unwanteds).

[Bearer of all agonies]

4 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

• Very low passion. Probably nothing more than someone stealing glances at their crush (Harry and Cho Chang).
• Admittance. Maybe they're flirting with somebody, or admitting to someone that they like someone (the early stages of Queedran).
• Physical contact. Hugging, hand-holding, maybe a peck on the cheek, etc (the current stage of Queedran)
• Kissing. Not to be confused with making out. There's a difference (Harry and Ginny).
• Making out. You wade into the pool of dangerous love scenes by doing this (Megan and that one guy in Steelheart).
• Passionate physical contact. I think I'll not describe this in detail (Straff Venture and Amortentia (that was her name, right?)).
• Implied/connotated reproduction event. That was the kindest word I could give it (Siri and Susebron)
• Hetsu. <-- this is a reference to a really naive character that, if you approach without wearing any armor in Breath of the Wild, will start shouting "you are nekked! I am nekked! We are united in exposure!" If that gives you guys the wrong impression of Breath of the Wild, then don't worry; one could argue it isn't even an innuendo in the first place, just Hetsu being Hetsu (David and Megan near the end of Firefight).
• Mating. If you describe the process in any way, then you've gotten yourself a 9.
• Graphic mating. You've gone into way too much detail and you've ought to rethink your life choices.

11. Stuff.

[Channelknight Fadran]

19 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

1. Very low passion. Probably nothing more than someone stealing glances at their crush (Harry and Cho Chang).
2. Admittance. Maybe they're flirting with somebody, or admitting to someone that they like someone (the early stages of Queedran).
3. Physical contact. Hugging, hand-holding, maybe a peck on the cheek, etc (the current stage of Queedran)
4. Kissing. Not to be confused with making out. There's a difference (Harry and Ginny).
5. Making out. You wade into the pool of dangerous love scenes by doing this (Megan and that one guy in Steelheart).
6. Passionate physical contact. I think I'll not describe this in detail (Straff Venture and Amortentia (that was her name, right?)).
7. Implied/connotated reproduction event. That was the kindest word I could give it (Siri and Susebron)
8. Hetsu. <-- this is a reference to a really naive character that, if you approach without wearing any armor in Breath of the Wild, will start shouting "you are nekked! I am nekked! We are united in exposure!" If that gives you guys the wrong impression of Breath of the Wild, then don't worry; one could argue it isn't even an innuendo in the first place, just Hetsu being Hetsu (David and Megan near the end of Firefight).
9. Mating. If you describe the process in any way, then you've gotten yourself a 9.
10. Graphic mating. You've gone into way too much detail and you've ought to rethink your life choices.

Just a little side note; there's a bit of a gray area around 5 and up, where you've implied that someone has gone and disregarded Pattern's advice but you haven't explained exactly when, how, or with who. Most of Blushweaver can be found in this gray area. There's also a small gray area between 2 and 4 where you're sexually attracted to someone as opposed to just regularly attracted, I.E. looking a little lower than their eyes or imagining yourself making out with them or something.

I feel like I should've mentioned how to best judge where you should keep your writing under this scale. I recommend reading through, and finding out at which point you start feeling uncomfortable. Then, go down by 2 and make that your baseline. Try to stay in or under that, only pulling up a notch of you feel like it'll help your scene. I start feeling pretty uncomfortable around 6, so I'm dropping to 4, and will probably avoid 5 where possible (I.E. everywhere; I'm the author, scud it, I can write whatever I want!)

[Aspiring Writer]

6 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Making out. You wade into the pool of dangerous love scenes by doing this (Megan and that one guy in Steelheart).

XD

6 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Hetsu. <-- this is a reference to a really naive character that, if you approach without wearing any armor in Breath of the Wild, will start shouting "you are nekked! I am nekked! We are united in exposure!" If that gives you guys the wrong impression of Breath of the Wild, then don't worry; one could argue it isn't even an innuendo in the first place, just Hetsu being Hetsu (David and Megan near the end of Firefight).

Oh, so now you remember his name. XD

6 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

After a moment of indecision, Fadran quietly slides his hand into Queen's.

Queen jolts slightly with surprise, then smiles, moves closer, and puts her head on Fadran's shoulder.

 Oh. It's like that between you two. I see. (Brain starts working) 

 

Okay, serious talk, first off, by your scale, does my fanfic land on 7, 8, or 9?

The next thing, I disagree with the order a bit. I feel 7 should be replaced with 6, as six is more descriptive than 7. It's fine to subtly reference that the event happened. Like seriously, are you saying something like, "Anna pulled Hale into the room. Hale shushed her and locked the door. (Next Chapter) Hale woke up, his eyes blurry. He got off the bed, careful not to disturb Anna." is worse than describing a steamy scene? Like, here's a damnation example of what 6 can consist off.

Continue at your own risk, don't you dare blame me ( and I'm referring this to anyone and everyone) It's not that bad, but I know someone will throw a hissy fit. (And again, not saying this to anyone in particular. really, I'm not trying to throw shade at Fadran, I swear. The reason I'm putting so many warnings is that I respect the guy.)

Spoiler

Anna threw arms around Hale and kissed him, leaning into his embrace. She felt the muscles on his back, rippling likes waves. Hale lifted her off her feet, picking her up like she weighed nothing. Finally, they separated to catch a breath, and they stared into each other eyes, foreheads touching. 

"Hey," she said.

Hale smiled. "Hey to you, too."

He set her down and let her feel his arms. Her soft hands were cold, making the hair on his arms stand up. He gripped her arms and kissed her again. her eyes flattered before closing, and they stayed there, in each other's embrace.

 

 

"Anna! There are girl scouts selling cookies! Which flavor do you want?" (Imagine this in the voice of Howard Wolowitz's mother XD)

Okay, for those of you who read that, can you rate that scene from a 1 out of 10 (Ignoring the ending) That's the first time I made a scene like that and I'm curious how well I did. I normally never go in-depth with romance scenes.

But back to my point, do you seriously think that is better than simply implying something? We know the event happened, and we can just not imagine the details. That seems a lot better than crafting a steamy scene that doesn't go to an R rating, but is still far more descriptive. What do you think?

[Bearer of all agonies]

[Turtle]

IS IT? IS IT?

[Channelknight Fadran]

6 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

 Oh. It's like that between you two. I see. (Brain starts working) 

That's for an RP. Think nothing of it.

6 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Okay, serious talk, first off, by your scale, does my fanfic land on 7, 8, or 9?

Probably a... 7?

6 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

The next thing, I disagree with the order a bit. I feel 7 should be replaced with 6, as six is more descriptive than 7. It's fine to subtly reference that the event happened. Like seriously, are you saying something like, "Anna pulled Hale into the room. Hale shushed her and locked the door. (Next Chapter) Hale woke up, his eyes blurry. He got off the bed, careful not to disturb Anna." is worse than describing a steamy scene? Like, here's a damnation example of what 6 can consist off.

Continue at your own risk, don't you dare blame me ( and I'm referring this to anyone and everyone) It's not that bad, but I know someone will throw a hissy fit. (And again, not saying this to anyone in particular. really, I'm not trying to throw shade at Fadran, I swear. The reason I'm putting so many warnings is that I respect the guy.)

  Reveal hidden contents

Anna threw arms around Hale and kissed him, leaning into his embrace. She felt the muscles on his back, rippling likes waves. Hale lifted her off her feet, picking her up like she weighed nothing. Finally, they separated to catch a breath, and they stared into each other eyes, foreheads touching. 

"Hey," she said.

Hale smiled. "Hey to you, too."

He set her down and let her feel his arms. Her soft hands were cold, making the hair on his arms stand up. He gripped her arms and kissed her again. her eyes flattered before closing, and they stayed there, in each other's embrace.

 

 

"Anna! There are girl scouts selling cookies! Which flavor do you want?" (Imagine this in the voice of Howard Wolowitz's mother XD)

Okay, for those of you who read that, can you rate that scene from a 1 out of 10 (Ignoring the ending) That's the first time I made a scene like that and I'm curious how well I did. I normally never go in-depth with romance scenes.

But back to my point, do you seriously think that is better than simply implying something? We know the event happened, and we can just not imagine the details. That seems a lot better than crafting a steamy scene that doesn't go to an R rating, but is still far more descriptive. What do you think?

For that first thing: I guess you could switch 6 and 7. I'm not exactly the most qualified to rate levels of passion in a romance scene. I guess by saying 7 is "implied Pattern tried to tell you no" I mean "heavily implied Pattern tried to tell you no."

As for that scene... I'd probably place it somewhere between a 5 and a 6. By "passionate physical contact" I'm speaking more among the lines of... you know what? I'd probably be better off not describing that, but the twirly-kiss-thing definitely drops down to a 4.

I never said anything is better than anything. I created an arbitrary scale that, I'll admit, was a little rushed. Don't take anything I say in this thread at face value: these are just suggestions from my own expierence in writing, and my own experience in writing don't include spicy scenes.

[Shard of Reading]

So I know that everyone has been saying that @Channelknight Fadran is the best writing teacher. But I must stop and tell you that the best book ever for writing advice is this:

Spoiler

https://www.amazon.com/Kitty-Drawn-Trouble-Nick-Bruel/dp/1596436719

 

[Aspiring Writer]

10 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

That's for an RP. Think nothing of it.

Probably a... 7?

For that first thing: I guess you could switch 6 and 7. I'm not exactly the most qualified to rate levels of passion in a romance scene. I guess by saying 7 is "implied Pattern tried to tell you no" I mean "heavily implied Pattern tried to tell you no."

As for that scene... I'd probably place it somewhere between a 5 and a 6. By "passionate physical contact" I'm speaking more among the lines of... you know what? I'd probably be better off not describing that, but the twirly-kiss-thing definitely drops down to a 4.

I never said anything is better than anything. I created an arbitrary scale that, I'll admit, was a little rushed. Don't take anything I say in this thread at face value: these are just suggestions from my own expierence in writing, and my own experience in writing don't include spicy scenes.

First off, yeah I assumed it was an RP thing. I was kidding. Hope you were too.

I find seven acceptable.

Okay, nice to see you agree.

Not technically what I meant, I was asking about the quality of the scene. I can see how that might have been confusing. But also, you sure you can't provide an example? And while I'd love seeing how you would write an 8 or 9, seeing as you couldn't handle Warbreaker, I mean you must have some example you have seen before that u can copypaste.

Well, you yourself don't like it, so it comes off like that. And yeah, what I'm trying to say is that I feel the scale is wrong because 6 consists of more se#ual descriptions. than 7. 

[danex]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:46 PM, Channelknight Fadran said:

Physical contact. Hugging, hand-holding, maybe a peck on the cheek, etc (the current stage of Queedran)

Uhh, excuse you, this is a Vorin website, that clearly belongs in the 8-9 range, maybe even a 10. Definitely not a 2. 

Spoiler

 

[Bearer of all agonies]

Spoiler

I’m dying right now  

 

[Enter a username]

Spoiler

Even if the hand in question is a freehand?

@Channelknight Fadran, are you ever going to post the next lesson?

[Aspiring Writer]

3 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

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Even if the hand in question is a freehand?

@Channelknight Fadran, are you ever going to post the next lesson?

Well, technically anyone can post a lesson on here, so...

[Channelknight Fadran]

16 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Even if the hand in question is a freehand?

@Channelknight Fadran, are you ever going to post the next lesson?

*Sighs in brainless*

12 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Well, technically anyone can post a lesson on here, so...

*Sighs in Aspire clearly can't read*

[Aspiring Writer]

1 minute ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

*Sighs in Aspire clearly can't read*

hey,  it's true.