RoW Prologue and Chapter 1 Discussion

[Toaster Retribution]

Gavilar is totally crem. He is very interesting though, so I really like reading about him. I hope we get more on Aesudan too. She still feels like an enigma, given that she appears as a somewhat incompetent but power-hungry girl, and then suddenly finds Yelig-Nar and buddies up with Ashertmarn. I still think she is on team Sons of Honor, but I want to know more of her. 

Also, if anyone ever doubted the ”Kalak is Nales friend” theory, that one is more or less confirmed now, since there is no one else that guy could feasibly be. 

[Honorless]

The argument between Gavilar and Navani was really good

It's kinda strange to have multiple versions of Lirin's chapter in my head, but I'm happy that I like the one that's going to be published the most

Gavilar is getting Voidlight somehow, there must be a phenomenon on Braize that distributes it, spren seem to need Investiture (OB spren appeared revitalized), plus I'd doubt they went to Odium & asked for some

Does Kalak want to flee the Rosharan system? 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Honorless

[+Spicker]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Yes.  I think so.  I doubt he would have sat things out too far.  I think it more likely he was just a megalomaniac.

While I totally agree with this, there is at least one case where cognitive shadows don’t really have much choice in the matter. This whole prologue came off very ominous to me, and I couldn’t help feel like we are seeing Gavilar again somehow. It may not happen, but I’m getting some serious vibes here.

I also can’t help but feel that Navani won’t be the only one to know this side of Gavilar. Maybe he doesn’t come back, but something is going to happen. 

[Harbour]

Yes. Now i believe Gavilar would be Odium's Champion. He fits. He is Dalinar's brother so thats why Dalinar felt terrible familiriaty. New prologue made it certain WHAT Gavilar planned for himself.

Be eternal. Be most powerful.

I have a gut feeling Brandon didnt describe Jasnah feeling when she saw his dead body just because. Gavilar CANT be dead.

And, well, i believe at some point he WONT be. Odium will ressurect him or maybe Gavilar's spirit is somewhere in Odium's grip. Just to come back as his Champion. Being eternal, as he wished.

He may be Darth Vader to Odium's Palpatine. And now i even speculate that Adolin, his nephew, like Luke, will bring him back to the light by the end of the series.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Harbour

[GriffinMaze]

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“You think of him as a criminal though, don’t you?”

“He bears a terrible responsibility; he perpetuated a war against an overwhelming enemy force. He threw away the lives of his men in a hopeless battle.”

“Some would call that heroism.”

“Heroism is a myth you tell idealistic young people—specifically when you want them to go bleed for you. It got one of my sons killed and another taken from me. You can keep your heroism and return to me the lives of those wasted on foolish conflicts.”

 

Lirin is a coward

[Goatbringer]

My initial reaction was like a punch to the gut - that fight between Gavilar and Navani was raw. And it was such a good example of a couple who has been together for a long time - he knew exactly what to say to Navani to hurt her the most. In the past three books, Gavilar has been one of the most intriguing and enigmatic characters, but we never got to see what an absolute bastard he was. 

Those closest to you truly are the ones who see you at your worst. Poor Navani. I'm so happy she's with Dalinar now, which is kind of weird to say considering how much of a bastard Dalinar was in the past. 

As for the Lirin chapter - I'm just happy to get that Stormlight momentum going again! I read this opening chapter a few months back in Brandon's newsletter and I'm just so happy to be diving in again. I'm so excited!

I've also decided to forego listening to the SDCC footage since it's a few more chapters in. Also (I hate to blaspheme), Brandon isn't super engaging as an out-loud narrator, I'm sorry to say!

Edited July 24, 2020 by Goatbringer

[lol_king]

 

 

 

 

 

3

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Storms bright and brash… that was Rushur Kris, the artist and master artifabrian. When had he arrived? Who had invited him? He was holding a small box with a flower painted on it. Could that be… one of his new fabrials?

Could the box that Rushur Kris was holding be related to the one Gavilar was using? Another model or something. I mean he called the artifabrian for a purpose, I don't think it would be just to torture Navani and we have another box mentioned in the same chapter.

 

 

 

 

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Gavilar suddenly stood up straight and glanced toward the doorway, though Navani hadn’t made any sound. Their eyes met. So she pushed open the door as if she had been on her way in. She wasn’t spying; she was queen of this palace. She could go where she wished, particularly her own study.

Is this Gavilar being perceptive or is it something else? Reminds me of Life sense but it could be nothing.

[Algafix]

8 hours ago, Innovation said:

On another topic, wasn’t the Sons of Honor’s goal to bring back the Heralds? If he has evidence that the Heralds seems back, then why continue working for the Desolation? Was he not fully aligned with the Sons of Honor? He did mention Restares as a possible employer of Szeth.

Maybe Gavilar was kind of a double agent? Using the Sons of Honor as a tool to force the desolation with the promise to their acolits that the Heralds will then return?

45 minutes ago, lol_king said:

Is this Gavilar being perceptive or is it something else? Reminds me of Life sense but it could be nothing.

I was thinking about some (void)spren alerting him.

[jamskinner]

Maybe gavilar wanted to replace one of the heralds.

[lol_king]

21 minutes ago, Algafix said:

I was thinking about some (void)spren alerting him.

Oh yeah, it slipped my mind that spren can make themselves invisible to others. But it can't be a radiant spren since the one Gavilar was bonding would be the Stormfather. And would the Heralds be okay with a Voidspren? I doubt they want to be found by Odium, even with insanity and I'm guessing Heralds can see all spren being Cognitive shadows and all. Maybe Nale's highspren alerted them. Both Nale and Kalak completely ignored Navani so it looks like they don't care.

[Skylicus23]

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“Wine,” the cook said. “We’re out of both the Clavendah and the Ruby Bench.”

“How?” she said. “We have reserves…” She shared a glance with the cook, and the answer was evident. Dalinar had found their wine store again. He’d grown quite ingenious at secretly draining the barrels for him and his friends. She wished he’d dedicate half as much attention to the kingdom’s needs.

This will not be the most insightful comment in this thread but I missed the "and his friends" when I read this the first time. I was confused and mildly impressed that Dalinar had made off with enough wine by himself to cause a shortage 

 

From what I gathered reading comments most of what we see from Navani's perspective isn't new information, but as someone who has only dipped his toe into the deep end of Sanderson lore it was an exciting open. I love how Brandon has told the story of that night from so many different perspectives now, and how each one gives a better understanding just how momentous it was.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Skylicus23

[Harbour]

I want to carefully analyze the Aesudan/Navani scene.

Navani/Gavilar scene was the one that attracted the most attention, but as we know sometimes cunning authors hide more important details in the scenes that seems less important.

Aesudan/Navani scene was put there for a certain reason and i bet it contain something more relevant for the story than Navani/Gavilar scene. Need to search for more hints.

[IcaroRibeiro]

I'm sure we will know more about Aesudan and Gavilar during this book

Gavilar's POV is the next and last in the prologue of his murderer 7 years ago. It's similar too how things were painted for Eshonai, we had some secrets about her and follow her events in Words of Radiance until the point we finally read what she saw, hear and did in the night in SA3

I'm guessing this is will be the same here 

[Jaconis]

12 minutes ago, Harbour said:

I want to carefully analyze the Aesudan/Navani scene.

Navani/Gavilar scene was the one that attracted the most attention, but as we know sometimes cunning authors hide more important details in the scenes that seems less important.

Aesudan/Navani scene was put there for a certain reason and i bet it contain something more relevant for the story than Navani/Gavilar scene. Need to search for more hints.

I was thinking about this, and given the rest of the Gavilar scenes and what else happens with Aesudan, I think we can make some assumptions and draw some conclusions as to what’s really going on here. 
 

1. Given that Gavilar is playing with a “box” that seems to be some sort of fabrial or something, I think its reasonable to assume that this master fabrial artisan is there to help with this. 
 

2. Given some comments Aesudan makes in OB, I think it’s reasonable to assume that she, either with Gavilar’s knowledge or not, was in on what he was doing. 

 

If those two assumptions are correct, than a reasonable conclusion is that Aesudan was talking to the artifabrian about this Gavilar stuff, and she was intentionally distracting/keeping Navani away from him.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Jaconis

[Innovation]

Box as in code name? Box as in literally a box shaped Fabrial? Box as in cube shaped human-sized oathgate? I hope to learn more about both this box and Fabrials in tRoW.  

[IcaroRibeiro]

Something that is REALLY interesting in Navani prologue is this:

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No. Don’t let his lies become your truth. Fight it. Teeth gritted, she opened her eyes and began rummaging in her desk for some oil paint and paper.

Gavilar was kinda Gaslighting her for some time. To make her feel guilty and grew distant from him. This is because, unlike the other Kohlins, Navani seemed to never had worshipped him, nor followed him blindly. Even Jasnah was prone to stupidity close to her father, but not Navani, Navani saw him a great men, but only a men. So Gavilar never could use her as a puppet, which probably infuriates him and makes him to don't feel the need to "disguise" himself next to her 

Look at how she asked Navani to tell Jasnah something he didn't wanted to share himself, to keep Jasnah in good therms with him:

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“Speak to your daughter,” Gavilar said, turning toward the door. “I believe I have managed to soothe Amaram’s pride. He might take her back, and her time is running out. Few other suitors will consider her; I’ll likely need to pay half the kingdom to get rid of the girl if she denies Meridas again.”

There is no way for this man to be pretending to protect her. From this Navani's chapter it's clear he was doing this for a while.

Now the next point, is his behaviour being affected by Odium influence? Totally, but I'm not buying it. For once Odium don't choose men by chance, Gavillar was obsessed with greatness and this was severely affecting his judgment, both moral and rational, which lead to his dreadful death after confronted Eshonai with the truths about what he was planning. If this was Odium influence, why would Odium wants to delay the return of the fused and voidspren that Gavilar was, apparently, plotting? 

Edited July 24, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro

[Goatbringer]

12 hours ago, scm288 said:

This, to me, reads like there is more going on here than just faded love. I mean sure, maybe Gavilar is just a mean man who has let power go to his head. But what with his likely visit to Braize, his meddling with Voidlight and Voidspren, and his megalomaniacal ambitions, I suspect that much like Eshonai in Words of Radiance, Gavilar here might be possessed by some sort of force from Odium. He certainly matches Eshonai's mannerisms after she went stormform. (Minus the demonic red eyes, of course.)

This makes sense. If I remember correctly, in Eshonai's Prologue in Oathbringer, Gavilar responds to her humming to anxiety by saying something like "don't worry" or something, indicating that he has knowledge of their rhythms and can potentially attune them as well. This could signify a Connection to Braize/Voidspren. 

Alternatively, this could be early Bondsmith manifestation, as Dalinar can Connect with people just by touching them, like when he goes to Azir and immediately can speak Azish once he speaks to a guard. 

[IcaroRibeiro]

This guy had my exactly thoughts about Gavilar:

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Book 1 prologue: “Who is Gavilar?”
Book 2 prologue: “Oh no, Gavilar died!”
Book 3 prologue: “Gavilar died… Maybe that’s a good thing?”
Book 4 prologue: “Good riddance.”

Book 5: GO SZETH! GO! KILL HIM!  STAB HIM AGAIN!

 

[Goatbringer]

11 hours ago, Karger said:

Maybe some kind of transportation fabrail?

I like this. We know from Dalinar's Highstorm flashbacks that they had a Regrowth fabrial to mimic Edgedancer and Truthwatcher surges, and there are surviving Soulcaster fabrials - who's to say that this isn't a fabrial designed to mimic Transportation from Elsecallers/Willshapers? 

[Harold]

"Death had come to visit Hearthstone today"

 

I'm not sure I will survive if every chapter ends on such an epic tease

[+Oltux72]

2 minutes ago, Goatbringer said:

I like this. We know from Dalinar's Highstorm flashbacks that they had a Regrowth fabrial to mimic Edgedancer and Truthwatcher surges, and there are surviving Soulcaster fabrials - who's to say that this isn't a fabrial designed to mimic Transportation from Elsecallers/Willshapers? 

Basically that is possible but not helpful to a Herald. Had they wanted that they could have used two of their Honorblades millenia ago. The box must have been doing more than just use Transportation.

[Goatbringer]

Hey so now that book 4 prologue is dealt with, who is going to be our POV for book 5? Will it be the big man himself, Gavilar?

[+Child of Hodor]

27 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Basically that is possible but not helpful to a Herald. Had they wanted that they could have used two of their Honorblades millenia ago. The box must have been doing more than just use Transportation.

The box is what allows for travel according to Gavilar. It sounded like Gavilar used the Heralds Connection to Braize in combination with the box to send other things.

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 “This is proof. The Connection is not severed, and the box allows for travel. Not yet as far as you’d like, but we must start the journey somewhere.” 

The Heralds want it to get them out of the system, away from Odium. 

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“There’s more here, Nale!” the Vorin man said, though he followed as his friend left. “This is important! I want out. This is the only way…”

Right now Gavilar can only send things to Braize and Nale isn't happy with it. 

@Goatbringer It would be a huge let down if prologue 5 wasn't Gavilar. The first two painted him in a more positive light, the 3rd and 4th show him as a dangerous, arrogant jerk. The 5th one should reveal the whole truth about him. 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Child of Hodor

[IcaroRibeiro]

1 minute ago, Goatbringer said:

Hey so now that book 4 prologue is dealt with, who is going to be our POV for book 5? Will it be the big man himself, Gavilar?

Yep

[shadows]

12 hours ago, Karger said:

Maybe some kind of transportation fabrail?

Like an interplanetary oathgate?

--

I'm now starting to lean towards a line of thinking that says we haven't seen the last of Gavilar in the present timeline

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In a trance, Navani walked back to the larder and the cold husk of Gavilar Kholin. His discarded shell.

 

That final part feels like a very carefully chosen couple of words...