Chapters 7/8

[+Spicker]

2 hours ago, Watchcry said:

I don't think you meant Shallan, as she and Adolin have a different mission. At least according to the new book description.  But I suppose it could be later in the book when she goes on that mission. 

Shallan just had a PoV in that chapter,  but wasn't necessary physical where Kal was. 

Yeah, I don't think we know enough one way or the other to tell if Shallan is on this specific mission or not. I can see it going both ways. We know she goes to shadesmar but we don't know exactly when. We don't know how long they are in Hearthstone, but my guess is not very long after chapter 8 if Moash is captured.

[dgreene196]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:27 AM, Child of Hodor said:

To be taken back to Urithiru. He used a dagger to kill Roshone, they may not know he has an honorblade. He can be an inside man if they assault Urithiru.

The eyes of the two chained men were burned out.  Kaladin has to know someone killed them with a Blade.

[Harbour]

I wonder why did Brandon skip Shallan part. Given that Brandon wanted to read two chapters, and not just fight scene, its suspicious. Was there some major spoiler he want to keep for an upcoming weekly release?

Edited July 26, 2020 by Harbour

[rjl]

What I want to know is how this whole team got there AND where they're staging from.

1. Kaladin tells Lift to give the fabrial to Navani - implying that Navani is somewhere Lift can get to without Kaladin's help so they're not flying back to Urithiru to see here
2. Kaladin says that Roshone had told Dalinar he was going into the cellar - implying that Dalinar is nearby.

If this stems from the situation going south in ch1 (as Brandon says it does) then why/how did Dalinar and Navani end up here? (Lift and the other Edgedancer too)? DO they have some kind of mobile command base? Did they portal in directly with transportation? Arrive in a flying ship? What? Any thoughts?

[Karger]

2 hours ago, rjl said:

Kaladin tells Lift to give the fabrial to Navani - implying that Navani is somewhere Lift can get to without Kaladin's help so they're not flying back to Urithiru to see here

Not really.  Just that Lift and Navani will be in the same place in the immediate future.  If something happens to Kaladin he probably wants to insure that Navani still gets it.

2 hours ago, rjl said:

Kaladin says that Roshone had told Dalinar he was going into the cellar - implying that Dalinar is nearby.

Or that the two groups have been in communication(I think by secret spanreed).

[rjl]

Just now, Karger said:

Not really.  Just that Lift and Navani will be in the same place in the immediate future.  If something happens to Kaladin he probably wants to insure that Navani still gets it.

Or that the two groups have been in communication(I think by secret spanreed).

For 1. this is possible BUT specifically implies that Lift's means of getting back to Navani (at Urithiru?) is not a Kaladin air lift, what's the transport method - another windrunner currently off screen?

For 2. in the middle of an active battle, in a tactical situation there's been time for Roshone to give an update to Dalinar in a different location AND that to get back to Kaladin? That seems unlikely to me.

[Karger]

8 minutes ago, rjl said:

For 1. this is possible BUT specifically implies that Lift's means of getting back to Navani (at Urithiru?) is not a Kaladin air lift, what's the transport method - another windrunner currently off screen?

Maybe.  Maybe a squire will leave earlier.  Maybe multiple Windrunners on site(I would not send just one.  What if something happens to Kaladin?).

10 minutes ago, rjl said:

For 2. in the middle of an active battle, in a tactical situation there's been time for Roshone to give an update to Dalinar in a different location AND that to get back to Kaladin? That seems unlikely to me.

I think this has all been preplaned and Kaladin his memorized what the different people are going to be doing.

[rjl]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

Maybe.  Maybe a squire will leave earlier.  Maybe multiple Windrunners on site(I would not send just one.  What if something happens to Kaladin?).

I think this has all been preplaned and Kaladin his memorized what the different people are going to be doing.

I guess that's possible; my conclusion that BOTH Navani and Dalinar are on site/in close proximity seems simpler IMO. (Even though it raises massive questions of why and how etc.)

Edited July 27, 2020 by rjl

[Subvisual Haze]

We never actually see Moash kill the chained prisoners, so I wouldn't be surprised to discover he wasn't responsible for that.  Perhaps Malata/Spark, covering their tracks after betraying the mission?

As for Moash's reason for surrendering: there might be multiple motivations at play here.  He certainly wanted to kill Roshone due to Roshone being responsible for the deaths of his grandparents.  At the same time though, Moash doesn't want to hurt to Kaladin.  In a perverse way he regards killing Roshone "for" Kaladin as a gift, same as he did Elhokar.  He assumes Kal wants to kill Elhokar/Roshone, but Kal's hands were tied by his oaths.  I think he sees killing Elhokar/Roshone as a gift, allowing Kaladin to get the vengeance that he deep down desires, while simultaneously keeping his hands clean.  Basically Moash is yandere.  He might well have an ulterior motive for "surrendering", but mostly I think its his weird perception of friendship for Kal at play.

[agrabes]

28 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

We never actually see Moash kill the chained prisoners, so I wouldn't be surprised to discover he wasn't responsible for that.  Perhaps Malata/Spark, covering their tracks after betraying the mission?

As for Moash's reason for surrendering: there might be multiple motivations at play here.  He certainly wanted to kill Roshone due to Roshone being responsible for the deaths of his grandparents.  At the same time though, Moash doesn't want to hurt to Kaladin.  In a perverse way he regards killing Roshone "for" Kaladin as a gift, same as he did Elhokar.  He assumes Kal wants to kill Elhokar/Roshone, but Kal's hands were tied by his oaths.  I think he sees killing Elhokar/Roshone as a gift, allowing Kaladin to get the vengeance that he deep down desires, while simultaneously keeping his hands clean.  Basically Moash is yandere.  He might well have an ulterior motive for "surrendering", but mostly I think its his weird perception of friendship for Kal at play.

I think some of this is right.  Killing the prisoners wouldn't line up with Moash's normal motivations.  He would probably kill lighteyes randomly as sort of class warfare, but I couldn't see him killing two tied up darkeyes prisoners.  I don't know that there's reason to suspect that Malata is on Odium's side though either.  Maybe a Fused has bonded a dead shardblade and killed the prisoners to keep that secret?  That would likely be a new development since this will be the first desolation where dead shardblades exist in significant numbers.

As to why Moash wants to be captured I have a different suspicion.  I think it's a mission from the Fused.  They want Moash to be captured and go to Urithiru, where he can try to kill Ash and Taln with the dagger.  Odium probably knows their location.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, rjl said:

I guess that's possible; my conclusion that BOTH Navani and Dalinar are on site/in close proximity seems simpler IMO. (Even though it raises massive questions of why and how etc.)

That seems really risky considering their importance and the fact that Navani is a civilian.

28 minutes ago, agrabes said:

That would likely be a new development since this will be the first desolation where dead shardblades exist in significant numbers.

That is a scary idea. 

28 minutes ago, agrabes said:

As to why Moash wants to be captured I have a different suspicion.  I think it's a mission from the Fused.  They want Moash to be captured and go to Urithiru, where he can try to kill Ash and Taln with the dagger.  Odium probably knows their location.

Maybe.  In that case he has some plan for getting out.  Either a spare shard(more probably an honor)blade.  Or some kind of unmade bond/power up.

[rjl]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

That seems really risky considering their importance and the fact that Navani is a civilian.

I know which is why it seems very weird to me BUT it also seems like the most obvious reading of the situation. Looking forward to seeing a bit of light shed on it - also want to know how they shifted from ch1 having a covert extraction mission go wrong to ch7 having a larger scale battle - how did they bring reinforcements quickly etc, hoping we'll find out in tomorrow's chapters.

[Karger]

35 minutes ago, rjl said:

I know which is why it seems very weird to me BUT it also seems like the most obvious reading of the situation

More obvious then Kaladin wanting to get that fabrial to Navani ASAP and Dalinar running OPs remotely(he has the experience and we know he has done so)?

35 minutes ago, rjl said:

Looking forward to seeing a bit of light shed on it - also want to know how they shifted from ch1 having a covert extraction mission go wrong to ch7 having a larger scale battle - how did they bring reinforcements quickly etc, hoping we'll find out in tomorrow's chapters.

I am not sure it has gone wrong yet.  It makes sense that Kaladin would reveal himself.  Doing so would not have the fused think that something is up(they were looking for him) while at the same time concentrating their forces on him sparing civilians and making their moves easier to predict for everyone else here.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Karger

[nonix]

We don't know what information they had about Hearthstone and what they expected to need to fight against, and if the Mink is sufficiently important, they may not be willing to take risks in losing him and have brought a larger force as a precaution. Based on the fact that the fight starts in chapter 1, and ends in chapter 7, I think it's safe to say a large number of people are present in Hearthstone, I don't see Brandon splitting up a fight with such a large gap unless there are other perspectives of the same battle between.

I also can't recall, but do we know for a fact that the plan is to extract the Mink? It says that Kaladin is expected to fetch him, but does that mean bring to Urithiru, we can't count on Lirin knowing everything. You could read it in a couple ways, either Navani is there, or she is in Urithiru still. It could be that the expectation is that they are meeting with the Mink, if he is a dustbringer as suspected, he may not be willing to join with Dalinar, as we have seen with Malata, therefore Dalinar and Navani are there in person to meet and convince him. 

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, nonix said:

I also can't recall, but do we know for a fact that the plan is to extract the Mink? It says that Kaladin is expected to fetch him, but does that mean bring to Urithiru, we can't count on Lirin knowing everything. You could read it in a couple ways, either Navani is there, or she is in Urithiru still. It could be that the expectation is that they are meeting with the Mink, if he is a dustbringer as suspected, he may not be willing to join with Dalinar, as we have seen with Malata, therefore Dalinar and Navani are there in person to meet and convince him. 

Couldn't they do that after evacuating?  Also welcome to the shard it is nice to meet you.

My current theory is that a large number of squires are here and are prepared to evacuate the townsfolk in large numbers using flying bridges(really just boats that they lash but will totally be called storm bridges).  This would also explain why such a large number of Radiants are here.  They need to fight off the fused that will be in the area.

[nonix]

6 minutes ago, Karger said:

Couldn't they do that after evacuating?  Also welcome to the shard it is nice to meet you.

My current theory is that a large number of squires are here and are prepared to evacuate the townsfolk in large numbers using flying bridges(really just boats that they lash but will totally be called storm bridges).  This would also explain why such a large number of Radiants are here.  They need to fight off the fused that will be in the area.

Well the assumption would be that the Mink isn't just going to go with them willingly, and they don't necessarily need to be there for an extended period of time. I'm just looking for explanations for why Navani would be there, them using the flying boats as we saw in Oathbringer could be another reason for this. Another thought that comes to mind is that Kaladin is there with two edgedancers, who would be concerned with the regular people affected in the war, as well as perhaps Shallan. Perhaps part of the mission isn't just to extract the Mink but they have been traveling around and soulcasting grain in various places since food was clearly a concern. I fully expect that all of Kaladin's squires are present, I think it would be silly if continued to see Kaladin separated from his squires. I half expected that there would be a description of Lirin inspecting a man with a description to match with a member of bridge 4. 

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, nonix said:

m just looking for explanations for why Navani would be there

I get that Lift being told to get her makes people think that she is here but even if she is.  How would a fast examination by Navani really tell them anything?  I have a hard time believing that even the best scholar in a given field could come to practical conclusions about a device she had never seen before by doing a spot examination without any kind of equipment or consultation.  As such I am forced back into my original conclusion.  Kaladin just wants the fabrial in Navani's scholar's hands ASAP.

[nonix]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

I get that Lift being told to get her makes people think that she is here but even if she is.  How would a fast examination by Navani really tell them anything?  I have a hard time believing that even the best scholar in a given field could come to practical conclusions about a device she had never seen before by doing a spot examination without any kind of equipment or consultation.  As such I am forced back into my original conclusion.  Kaladin just wants the fabrial in Navani's scholar's hands ASAP.

I agree Navani is likely not there, as it's rather difficult to find good reasons for her to be out in the field and be risked in such a manner. However the text can easily be read in a way that suggests that she is. Plus getting it to Navani doesn't mean she's looking at it immediately and I don't think the reading suggested she could do something with it, Kaladin just wants it in her possession. The possibility exists and it's fun to consider the possibilities.

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, nonix said:

The possibility exists and it's fun to consider the possibilities.

Sure.  I am just having a hard time coming up with one that makes sense.  The only one I can think of that is even somewhat reasonable is that she is involved in setting up some kind of big fabrial like she did at Narak(possibly for transportation of civilians) but I would think that a group of specially trained individuals could probably do that even under stress.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Karger

[nonix]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Sure.  I am just having a hard time coming up with one that makes sense.  The only one I can think of that is even somewhat reasonable is that she is involved in setting up some kind of big fabrial(possibly for transportation of civilians) but I would think that a group of specially trained individuals could probably do that even under stress.

Yeah that's why I was thinking maybe the Mink was unwilling to journey straight to Urithiru, I find it unlikely for her to leave for any reason except if maybe Dalinar was going as well. You're right that fabrials probably wouldn't matter, she would probably train people, testing would likely be done in Urithiru or at the Shattered Plains. We will probably find her back in Urithiru. 

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, rjl said:

also want to know how they shifted from ch1 having a covert extraction mission go wrong to ch7 having a larger scale battle

If this was just an extract, why meet in a town at all? It looks to me like the hidden assumption of the relations between the Knights Radiant and the Herdazian Resistance being all that good is wrong. If Dalinar and Navani are present this points to extended negotiations.

3 hours ago, nonix said:

we can't count on Lirin knowing everything.

What he doesn't know they cannot torture out of him. He would get a cover story that is not all that plausible anyway. For a simple meeting and extraction any notable rock formation outside town would do.

[DarthHoid]

I really want to watch this video, but I have to ask. Can anyone provide a link of where to read the Chapters after Prologue and 1. I can't find anything. Unless it's not there. Then I'll just watch the video.

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, DarthHoid said:

I really want to watch this video, but I have to ask. Can anyone provide a link of where to read the Chapters after Prologue and 1. I can't find anything. Unless it's not there. Then I'll just watch the video.

The locked thread by Chaos at the top of the rhythm of war page holds links to everything that is open to be read or heard.

[rjl]

2 hours ago, DarthHoid said:

I really want to watch this video, but I have to ask. Can anyone provide a link of where to read the Chapters after Prologue and 1. I can't find anything. Unless it's not there. Then I'll just watch the video.

The only publicly released full chapters are Prologue and Chapter 1 - chapters 2 & 3 should be coming about an hour from now.

The video starts by saying that they've released more BUT it was pre-recorded and the plan changed so it's wrong.

 

[Isilel]

Well, now that we have chapters 2 and 3, it is obvious who Vyre wants to kill once he is "taken prisoner" - Dalinar. Destroying "Fourth Bridge" as a bonus. Thankfully, the Syl Interlude confirms his failure.