Straw

LG67: Aftermath: tormented

16 posts in this topic

locke the tormented waz on teh ground. he had ben pushed there by sum strange person. he watched every 1 else fighting. he had thot he had just as many persons who liked him, but there was only 1 fighting 4 him. they lost, and he died. teh end. thx 4 playing.


Orlok Tsubodai has died! He was a Refugee.

Vote Count:

Orlok Tsubodai (3): Araris Valerian, Devotary of Spontaneity, Magestar
Araris Valerian (1): Illwei, Lord_Silberfarben, Orlok Tsubodai

GM Notes:

-THE GAME IS OVER! Thanks for playing!!!

-Congratulations to @Araris Valerian, @Frozen Mint, @Lord_Silberfarben, @Magestar, @StrikerEZ, @xinoehp512, and @Zillah!!!

-GM thoughts up sometime.

Documents and Spreadsheets:

Master Spreadsheet

Dead/Spectator Document

Diagramist Document

Player List:

Spoiler

A Joe in the Bush Refugee

Araris Valerian Diagramist

Ashbringer Refugee

Devotary of Spontaneity Refugee Tension Squire

Elbereth Refugee

Eternum Refugee Skybreaker

Fifth Scholar / shanerockes Refugee

Frozen Mint Diagramist Adhesion Squire

Gears Refugee

Illwei Refugee Truthwatcher

Kynedath Refugee

Lahilt Refugee

Lord_Silberfarben Diagramist

Magestar Diagramist Windrunner

Matrim's Dice Refugee Progression Squire

Orlok Tsubodai Refugee

Sart Refugee

StrikerEZ Diagramist

The Young Pyromancer Refugee

The_Truthwatcher Refugee

TJ Shade Refugee Bondsmith

Ventyl Refugee Edgedancer

xinoehp512 Diagramist

Zillah Diagramist

 

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This game was magnificent. I enjoyed it very, very much. Congratulations to the eliminators, for being incredibly skilled at evading suspicion. I think lynching Striker D1 really hurt us. Overall, great game 16/10. 

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@Illwei was the Truthwatcher!!!!! :o Very good first game.

I spent the entirety of the game being thoroughly confused :P Mostly due to the inactivity and size of the elim team...

Props to @Frozen Mint and @Lord_Silberfarben for being the two active elims I had read as village, and to the rest of the team for winning.

Thanks Straw for running!

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Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

@Illwei was the Truthwatcher!!!!! :o Very good first game.

I was going to tell you when I opened PMs and see if you had the progression surge but I was a bit too scared after Pyro PM'd me. Then I was going to try and squire Pyro but I kind of thought they were a KR.

Edit: Man apparently I should have opened PMs more. I was kind of very worried about elim manipulation through PMs 

Edit Edit: I really thought Matrim wasn't progression because he kept saying that someone should protect TJ or him. of course, I thought Ash was a dustbringer for the same reason, so-

Edited by Illwei
I rly dont want to double post
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Some extra thoughts that I forgot to mention: My fatal flaw appears to be assuming that everyone else is utilitarian and thinking rationally. That is decidedly false and crippled my analysis. I tunnelled extremely hard on Ventyl [sorry] because of this [If Striker was the only elim of Striker/TJ/Ventyl, then why didn't he vote Ventyl? Therefore, Ventyl = elim]. This was a learning experience.

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I broke my losing streak! Although I can't really take credit for this one. :P 

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Posted (edited)

Well, I played for a week solely on mobile and did fairly well. Then I finally returned from my vacation, ready to play SE on my new laptop and write the long analysis posts I like... and then I got hurled into an off-schedule highstorm. TJ, I want a word with the Stormfather :P

Apparently the Elims were trying to incriminate Gears by killing me? Everyone seemed to just accept that I was dead when everyone had thought that Joe would be next. Although Gears did get lynched quick, so I guess it worked.

I did have a lot of fun with this game. Watching the village work through the mess of Ventyl and Gears, waiting for Gears to die so I had someone to talk to, theorizing I think three different game ideas, and trying (and failing) to find the Elims. I had thought Pyro was the bad one, which means Pyro gets the distinguished award of being more suspicious as a Villager than as an Elim...

Well, congrats to the Elims!

Edited by Ashbringer
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Posted (edited)

Good game elims! 

@Araris Valerian, I really didn't mean it when I told that we're losing the game due to the lack of active village power roles, rather than the work of the elims. It was sort of an attempt to bait the elims to rile up. You did reply to that, but in a villager-y way, so I was left more confused than before xD. Hope you or the elim team didn't take offense for that. You deserve this victory and the ease at which it was achieved. 

Also, if you didn't know, I did role-block you the cycle I died. If only it wasn't grav-assisted... I actually thought of blocking you the previous cycle (when you killed Elbereth), but I thought we had all decided to lynch you anyway so I changed my target to Pyro. 

I think my major problem in this game was my confidence took a bad hit after mislynching Ventyl. I had 0 interest in lynching Gears (Sorry @Gears). I was majorly convinced he was village. I would have definitely pushed for Araris lynch that cycle if I was more confident. Similarly, the cycle Lahilt was lynched, I should have pushed harder for the Magestar lynch instead of just "It seems no one wants to lynch Mage this turn". 

@Illwei, great first game! I hope to see you in many more! 

@Ventyl, if it's any consolation, while everyone underestimated you, telling that your actions as an elim would be too tough or too smart to pull off, I actually thought you were capable of doing it. Sorry for tunneling on you, and I'll be more careful in the future. 

@Ashbringer, @Gears I had a lot of fun building up insane and crazy games and filling up the dead doc. I'd gladly die early with you guys again xD.

@Elbereth, see, I'm village. :P

@Devotary of Spontaneity, glad you survived. I guess it's sort of a consolation for me. xD 

Edit:  @Straw, thanks for running this game! I enjoyed it, despite being under pressure of the entire time I was alive. :P

 

Edited by TJ Shade
Smh, hit submit early
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Oh man, I forgot to check in on the game yesterday. :ph34r: Seems like it was a pretty quick cycle though. Great game guys.

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Technically the only inactive Radiant was Eternum the Skybreaker. Which wasn't ideal, but it was only one.

As opposed to the Dustbringer, Lightweaver, and Elsecaller, who just didn't exist...

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9 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

@Araris Valerian, I really didn't mean it when I told that we're losing the game due to the lack of active village power roles, rather than the work of the elims. It was sort of an attempt bait the elims to rile up. You did reply to that, but in a villager-y way, so I was left more confused than before xD. Hope you or the elim team didn't tak offense for that. You deserve this victory and the ease at which it was achieved. 

Thanks :). Although I think in a large part the ease of our victory was due to general village inactivity. Striker getting lynched turned out to be rather helpful, and then after a couple of mislynches I feel like the village lost its confidence, since my proposal for the lynch was accepted (by at least enough villagers) basically through the end of the game at that point.

Thanks to @Straw for GMing! This game was very fun to play, and it was nice to be an elim again. I also greatly enjoyed playing with @Magestar, @Frozen Mint, @Lord_Silberfarben, @xinoehp512, and @Zillah, although we could have cleaned things up a little faster if the latter two had been more active.

My general comments on the game: First and foremost I think the activity levels were pretty awful. I know several people had IRL stuff going on, but some people sort of just vanished, and didn’t even put anything in blue text (some of that may have been due to IRL stuff too, and that is totally cool as well). I just find it slightly unlikely that so many people had so much life stuff come out of nowhere right after D2. The more players that are posting in a game, in general, the more fun it is for everyone. My team ended up killing off a bunch of inactives just to keep the game from going dead before we won officially, but that doesn’t feel very good to do as an elim, because you aren’t playing optimally (kind of the exact opposite). So I guess, if you play again, please try and post at least once per cycle, even if it’s just to say that you are still catching up. 

I think the game probably would have been balanced at 6 elims, but it’s hard to tell with the activity. With 7 and a double vote manip, I think we may have had a little too much game ending potential. I’d be curious to hear thoughts from others about this.

The village perception on the role distribution this game was also kind of weird, although I’m not sure it impacted the game. Several people assumed either all roles or all surges would be present, but that is the exact sort of role distribution that GMs try to avoid. My advice: if you can guess at a role distribution D1, it’s probably wrong.

Thanks everyone for playing, and I look forward to killing you all later!

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So, first of all, special thanks to all of the following (among others):

  • All the active players, for helping this game keep going.
  • The spectators and dead players who helped the spec/dead doc grow to 86 pages. It was quite a fun doc, and had a bunch of game design stuff, so read through it if you like that stuff.
  • The eliminators, for successfully winning the game.
  • The village Knights Radiant, for only squiring villagers.
  • TJ Shade, for creating a very dramatic moment. He roleblocked Araris, who put in the elim kill, and was barely foiled by the only use of Gravitation this game.
  • shanerockes, for being willing to sub in.
  • Illwei, for having a solid performance as a completely new player.
  • Wilson, for checking over the distribution and being the IM.
  • Orlok, for giving us a lot of fun posts as locke the tormented.
  • Elbereth, for making a very nice role chart. Also, for sharing her suspicions in a PM named "aaaaaaaaaa". :P
  • Ventyl and Gears, for writing their own deaths.
  • Aonar, for originally making the rules for this game.

Now, on to the GM thoughts.

Distribution

The first big part of the distribution was the number of eliminators. I could have either gone with six elims or seven elims. With six elims, the elims would need seven lynches on villagers to win, and the village would need six lynches on elims to win. With seven elims, it would be reversed. I ended up going with seven elims, since I felt like a bigger team with fewer roles would be more interesting, LGs are usually pretty sided towards the village (38.6% elim wins), and the village had (in my opinion) a strong set of roles. The village’s roles all provided ways to gain an advantage. The Edgedancer, Truthwatcher, and Bondsmith all had access to some form of kill interference. Assuming they used their abilities to try to block kills, there would be an average of two protects flying around each night, for a 8% chance of blocking the night’s kill (this is the theoretical chance, and doesn’t take into account the fact that the elims probably aren’t going to kill people under suspicion). While some KRs would likely die, they would probably Squire, leaving the village with roughly two protects for quite a bit. The Skybreaker was expected to be killing players, which would probably help the village. I think that this distribution was balanced in favor of the elims, but I think the village would have had a decent shot if they were active. It probably would have been more fair if the elims didn't have a Windrunner. I think I underestimated how useful the Windrunner would be.

Something kind of funny about this game was that neither faction really got to use their big advantage all that much. Yes, the village had some good stuff with Squiring, Illumination, TJ almost blocking the kill, and TJ changing the vote to get Striker lynched. Yes, the elims did have an earlier ending due to their larger numbers. However, the village never really got to use their roles that much, since Eternum was inactive and Ventyl was lynched early, leaving TJ and Illwei as the two village Knights. The elims didn’t get to swing around their numbers all that much. There were three active elims, two semi-active elims, and two inactive elims. They never really used their numbers to change a lynch or control the thread.

Inactivity

People got off to a very good start on cycle one and cycle two, but I guess people just got burned out. I'm glad I didn't have an activity filter this game, since I think that the deaths would have helped the elimsa lot. Breaking it down, there were seven people who would have qualified for a typical two cycle inactivity filter (minimum six days irl time in this game). Out of those people, there were two elims and five villagers. So, if you removed them, the game would have been 5 v 12. There were also two people who died one turn before they would have run into the inactivity filter. I doubt that they still would have been killed, since people could have just waited one more turn. I  really was surprised by the amount of inactivity, given the length of the cycles. There were four people who were inactive for over two weeks. Overall, I'd just like to remind people to not sign up if they don't feel like they have the time to play. I'd much rather run a smaller game with everyone active and having fun than a larger game with a lot of inactive players.

Striker's Lynch

It was pretty funny how much this ended up hurting the village. I remember hearing about it on the Mafia Universe podcast once, and over hundreds of games on their site, games when an elim died D1 ended up being worse for the village. It's a pretty weird effect.

Changes from LG13

  • Illusion: Changing Illusion to a general open/closed PMs effect was something I'm very glad I did, and I think it should be left that way in a rerun. Making all of those PMs myself would have been a pain. The way it is now is also more powerful than how it was in LG13, which is good. It might be better to just change it to make PMs open for the next cycle, instead of having it be until the end of the next night.
  • Gravitation: I'm glad I nerfed this. Gravitation is a strong surge, and having Progression be able to block it is a useful check on it.
  • Cohesion: Cohesion in LG13 was a lot more messy, so I'm happy that I changed it to a swap. It'd probably be fine either way though. The way it interacted with the lynch in LG13 was more debatable.
  • Stormlight Saving: I removed the ability to save Stormlight made it so Knights and Squires couldn't hoard Stormlight. I liked how this played out, since I feel like there would have been fewer actions otherwise.
  • Information: Generally, people got less information about the results of stuff than they did in LG13. I feel like this could go either way, since it doesn't make a huge difference. Personally, I liked limiting the information more. The one thing that gave people more info than it did in LG13 was Progression (if someone was attacked and survived, their name was revealed). This was mainly to give Progression a boost, and I think it was a good change.

I'm not sure if I missed anything there. If you have a question or want me to comment on something, just @mention me.

Now, go sign up for Elbereth's game if you have the time!!!

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Even though I got lynched D1 and had a lot of irl stuff preventing me from having the mental energy to keep up with this game super closely, this game was a blast to watch! It was really fun to see how my lynch caused so much chaos and confusion. As of now I have died in 75% of my elim games. In 67% of those games I was lynched D1 and my team won. Of the times I survived to the end, I lost once and won once. It appears that I have a higher chance of winning as an elim if I get lynched D1 than if I try to survive the whole time. :P

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Posted (edited)

I mean, it definitely threw us off big time. Elim dead for no discernable reason, TJ burning through 2 vote manips to save himself, 2 (Village) Radiants outed... it basically threw everything into TJ, Ventyl, or Gears and let Mage and Araris slip everyone’s minds.

Edit: 

*Reads Elim doc*

Great. So even the Elims are confused on why the Elims killed me...

Edited by Ashbringer
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2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

which means Pyro gets the distinguished award of being more suspicious as a Villager than as an Elim...

Well, I'm a better elim than village, so that should be expected :P

I actually tried to say that in-game, that I was acting a lot more like a stereotypical elim this game, which is atypical for me.

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Brightlord Faleast had a headache.

Truth be told, he was rather surprised he still had a head.

I see you've been busy, he thought at AraRaash. The kandra'd evidently been tapping gold very, very slowly throughout the past few days, and it seemed like he'd reattached any limbs lost in that freak highstorm. Faleast was still confused about that: one minute he'd been walking the perimeter on a clear day, the next someone had stuck a knife in his back and he was flying into the air. It was as if the Stormfather decided he needed to be removed from the area, in addition to those Diagrammists.

AraRaash took over their shared mouth. "Almost done with everything. But since they saw us die... I didn't move until I knew the caravan was long gone."

I take it no spren took much interest in a corpse, Faleast pondered.

Ah well. I have another place in mind for us to try.

I think you'll like it.

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