Hoid's Vow

[DarthHoid]

Just rereading Oathbringer and a part stuck out to me, so of course it led to some extra side reading on Hoid.

I know he's been confirmed to have powers of Fortune.  In the book he says that when he was young he vowed to always be "there" when he was needed. Seems obviously related to him usually being in the midst of something important.

Could the vow itself be related to his abilities, like an oath on Roshar? Is there an answer I haven't found?

[rosin_the_beau]

I think the official answer is "we don't know", as both Hoid and Pre-shattering magic are mysteries. I, however, think that this could very much be true. I have found neither conflicting or confirming WoBs. 

[DarthHoid]

20 hours ago, rosin_the_beau said:

I think the official answer is "we don't know", as both Hoid and Pre-shattering magic are mysteries. I, however, think that this could very much be true. I have found neither conflicting or confirming WoBs. 

Thanks. Kinda figured, but I do keep finding something I didn't know before every time I look around so thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

[Pendragon9]

it's nothing definitive but it seems pretty clear Hoid is bonding or is about to bond a spren at the end of Oathbringer. The vow to "be there when I am needed" is very close to the first oath of the Stonewards order of Knights Radiant. (check in the Arcanum section of the site for the list and description of all orders) 

This might give us some insight into what kind of spren he's interacting with. 

[Hoid the Former Drifter]

9 hours ago, Pendragon9 said:

it's nothing definitive but it seems pretty clear Hoid is bonding or is about to bond a spren at the end of Oathbringer. The vow to "be there when I am needed" is very close to the first oath of the Stonewards order of Knights Radiant. (check in the Arcanum section of the site for the list and description of all orders) 

This might give us some insight into what kind of spren he's interacting with. 

pretty sure he made the oath before spren were invented

[Brgst13]

On 8/17/2020 at 2:01 AM, Pendragon9 said:

it's nothing definitive but it seems pretty clear Hoid is bonding or is about to bond a spren at the end of Oathbringer. The vow to "be there when I am needed" is very close to the first oath of the Stonewards order of Knights Radiant. (check in the Arcanum section of the site for the list and description of all orders) 

This might give us some insight into what kind of spren he's interacting with. 

Unfortunately he bonded a Cryptic, making him a Lightweaver.

[Chinkoln]

On 8/19/2020 at 7:46 AM, Brgst13 said:

Unfortunately he bonded a Cryptic, making him a Lightweaver.

What I don’t get is why he needed to bond a cryptic. He already had Lightweaving from Yolen and Taldain, he already has access to more healing than we can imagine, so unless he wants to soulcast, being a Lightweaver is useless to him. If he did want to soulcast then it seems that Elsecaller would be better for him because then he can hop between realms more easily, something he has had trouble with in the past (see Mistborn: Secret History).

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Chinkoln said:

What I don’t get is why he needed to bond a cryptic. He already had Lightweaving from Yolen and Taldain, he already has access to more healing than we can imagine, so unless he wants to soulcast, being a Lightweaver is useless to him. If he did want to soulcast then it seems that Elsecaller would be better for him because then he can hop between realms more easily, something he has had trouble with in the past (see Mistborn: Secret History).

Yolish lightweaving is 'broken' for lack of a better term, and where in Taldin is there lightweaving?

[Chinkoln]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Yolish lightweaving is 'broken' for lack of a better term, and where in Taldin is there lightweaving?

I'm not sure, I hate graphic novels so I haven't read that (I am really sad to miss out on something written by Brandon, but I just can't stand graphic novels) but I thought I heard that somewhere. Isn't that what he was doing in OB when he was telling the story of the moon and the Natanan people when Shallan found him.

[Frustration]

Just now, Chinkoln said:

I'm not sure, I hate graphic novels so I haven't read that (I am really sad to miss out on something written by Brandon, but I just can't stand graphic novels) but I thought I heard that somewhere. Isn't that what he was doing in OB when he was telling the story of the moon and the Natanan people when Shallan found him.

I didn't see anything in it that resembles light weaving, in OB he was using Yolish lightweaving, we don't know what it being 'broken' means but it's at least partially functional.

 WoB

Spoiler

Stormlightning

Where you *inaudible* Hoid as a Lightweaver in Era 2?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Lightweaver in Dragonsteel.

Stormlightning

I mean a spren Lightweaver. Unless the timeline's still, really--

Brandon Sanderson

Meaning was I planning for him to become a Lightweaver?

Stormlightning

Before Era 2 since we thought Era 2 was going to be Era 3.

Brandon Sanderson

 Hoid has never quite stopped being a Lightweaver. He is very happy to be fully empowered with things.

Stormlightning

Does that mean he was not fully a Lightweaver?

Brandon Sanderson

You will find out someday. His magic was not fully functional, but he was Lightweaving in Way of Kings

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

[Chinkoln]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I didn't see anything in it that resembles light weaving, in OB he was using Yolish lightweaving, we don't know what it being 'broken' means but it's at least partially functional.

 WoB

  Hide contents

Stormlightning

Where you *inaudible* Hoid as a Lightweaver in Era 2?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Lightweaver in Dragonsteel.

Stormlightning

I mean a spren Lightweaver. Unless the timeline's still, really--

Brandon Sanderson

Meaning was I planning for him to become a Lightweaver?

Stormlightning

Before Era 2 since we thought Era 2 was going to be Era 3.

Brandon Sanderson

 Hoid has never quite stopped being a Lightweaver. He is very happy to be fully empowered with things.

Stormlightning

Does that mean he was not fully a Lightweaver?

Brandon Sanderson

You will find out someday. His magic was not fully functional, but he was Lightweaving in Way of Kings

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

For Hoid, if something is partially functional then, he can make it work. He has had a couple of thousand years to master using it.

[Brgst13]

2 hours ago, Chinkoln said:

What I don’t get is why he needed to bond a cryptic. He already had Lightweaving from Yolen and Taldain, he already has access to more healing than we can imagine, so unless he wants to soulcast, being a Lightweaver is useless to him. If he did want to soulcast then it seems that Elsecaller would be better for him because then he can hop between realms more easily, something he has had trouble with in the past (see Mistborn: Secret History).

Relevant WoB:

Quote

Stormlightning

If Hoid could have picked to join any order of the Knights Radiant, regardless of the Oaths he had to swear, just the powers, would he have picked Lightweaver?

Brandon Sanderson

He would have.

Stormlightning

Tell me more!

Brandon Sanderson

Lightweaving matches him very well, he's quite familiar with it and experienced with it. He's very good at using it and he likes it.

It's the fulfillment of a long, long quest of his to finally get full access to Lightweaving.

Stormlightning

Even though he had some sort of Lightweaving?

Brandon Sanderson

He did have some sort of, yes. He's a very very happy Hoid.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018)

 

[+Harrycrapper]

I'd say Lightweaver fits him best because it doesn't involve making Oaths that might restrict his choices. Progressing as a Lightweaver is mostly about self-awareness and Hoid seems pretty self-aware. 

[trav]

On 24.8.2020 at 8:55 PM, Harrycrapper said:

I'd say Lightweaver fits him best because it doesn't involve making Oaths that might restrict his choices. Progressing as a Lightweaver is mostly about self-awareness and Hoid seems pretty self-aware. 

its also help for his disguises. soulcasting is another big plus.

neither of which is strictly offensive.

 

I took Hoids vow as a vow to himself rather than to somebody or something. he swore to himself to make up for the errors of his past. something like that.

[+robardin]

5 hours ago, trav said:

I took Hoids vow as a vow to himself rather than to somebody or something. he swore to himself to make up for the errors of his past. something like that.

It feels like a magically binding vow to me, and is perhaps related to why he can't physically hurt another being (which based on his being satisfied as finding a release for his pent-up aggression in the Cognitive Realm that we see in Mistborn: Secret History, he used to be able to do).

We know he has some kind of Fortune-based sense that dictates where he goes in the Cosmere, though as he himself says to Dalinar at one point, he often doesn't know why he's supposed to be there or why he's supposed to leave when he does.

So I think I'll be there when needed is, at some level, being externally determined for him. If Fortune is directing him to "be there", that would imply some kind of algorithm (or even conscious agent?) behind its operation determining the basis of "needed" that is opaque to him.

I'd infer there was Intent in the vow when he said it that is providing the "algorithmic determination" of what "needed" means, and it's powering the Fortune sense within him.

And I think "needed" is less a personal thing and more a goal thing. Where he needs to be... To prevent/achieve something.

[Hoid the Former Drifter]

On 8/24/2020 at 1:55 PM, Harrycrapper said:

I'd say Lightweaver fits him best because it doesn't involve making Oaths that might restrict his choices. Progressing as a Lightweaver is mostly about self-awareness and Hoid seems pretty self-aware. 

Good thing he is one...