Rosharan order of arrival

[Brgst13]

When did Odium arrive on Roshar?  In text, it is suggested he came from Ashyn with the first humans.  However, there are aspects of this that do not make sense.  Brandon has stated that all of Roshar, except for Braize, is 10-centric.  Odium's number is 9.  If he had been invested on Ashyn, wouldn't the number there be 9?  And then wouldn't Braize be 10-centric?  None of the numerology suggests that Odium was not Invested on Ashyn.  Am I missing something, or is the timeline less clear than it appears?

[Eternal Khol]

1 hour ago, Brgst13 said:

If he had been invested on Ashyn,

Its simple.

he never invested there.

 Just cause he went to Ashyn doesnt mean he invested, any more than he “invested” on Sel or Threnody or any other planets hes been to

also the fact that there are 10 gas giants in the system, suggests a pre-existing tie to the numbed 10 as the system was made by Adonalsium

 

 

 

Hoidonalsium

What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiances? Did humans come with Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there.

Hoidonalsium

Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled.

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

 

  Edited July 15, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Honorless]

Hmm, maybe that's simply the current situation. Braize is the current location of Odium after all, not Ashyn.

[+Harrycrapper]

This whole situation has always confused me, the facts that we know just don't form a complete picture. At first, I thought that maybe the Singers claim that Odium is the humans' god was because he followed them there. But then Syl at the end of OB seems to confirm that Odium is indeed their(referring to humans) god. There are a few possible questions that raises. Did Odium create these humans like Ruin and Preservation did(I think this unlikely, doesn't seem within the scope of his Shard's Intent)? Or were they refugees from Yolen that had been following him post Shattering and at some point defected? Technically, Odium is a piece of what was once every humans' god, maybe Syl was referencing Adonalsium? Were all of the humans on Ashyn "from" Odium or only a subset of them? 

[RShara]

55 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

This whole situation has always confused me, the facts that we know just don't form a complete picture. At first, I thought that maybe the Singers claim that Odium is the humans' god was because he followed them there. But then Syl at the end of OB seems to confirm that Odium is indeed their(referring to humans) god. There are a few possible questions that raises. Did Odium create these humans like Ruin and Preservation did(I think this unlikely, doesn't seem within the scope of his Shard's Intent)? Or were they refugees from Yolen that had been following him post Shattering and at some point defected? Technically, Odium is a piece of what was once every humans' god, maybe Syl was referencing Adonalsium? Were all of the humans on Ashyn "from" Odium or only a subset of them? 

Syl doesn't have firsthand knowledge of events before she was shaped, which was after Aharietiam. I don't know how much she knows/remembers from her early days either.

Odium definitely didn't create the humans on Ashyn, nor were they following him around. Remember that before he went to Ashyn, he went to Sel, and somewhere near-ish Threnody. And he doesn't like to Invest, and creating life would definitely involve Investing.

We don't know for sure where the humans on Ashyn originated. They could have been created by Adonalsium, or been refugees from Yolen, or who knows what.  But I really think Odium just came, influenced them long enough to get them to destroy themselves, and moved on to Roshar.

[Weltall]

47 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

Did Odium create these humans like Ruin and Preservation did(I think this unlikely, doesn't seem within the scope of his Shard's Intent)? Or were they refugees from Yolen that had been following him post Shattering and at some point defected?

Odium doesn't need to have had anything to do with the first humans on Ashyn to be 'their' god. He showed up, he influenced things one way or another without needing to Invest in the planet and eventually the cataclysm that resulted in the mass exodus happened and Odium got his proxy war started. For all we know, he just whispered in the right ears that it would be really cool if they played around with the Dawnshards and waited until someone foolish enough listened and things went boom. Odium can manifest on Roshar even though he's 'on' Braize so he should be able to do the same to Ashyn without having to ever Invest his power there.

Thanks to Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded we know that humans predated the arrival of the Shards on all but two places, one of which is explicitly Scadrial (because it didn't exist before) and Oathbringer gave us Roshar as the second place, which means humans would have been on Ashyn when Odium arrived. It's likely that Adonalsium put them there for whatever Grand Design he had for the system, though we can't discount that there were pre-Shattering worldhoppers who chose to go there for some unrelated reason.

In any event, he had his hooks sufficiently into the humans who fled to Roshar that they could have been considered 'his' when they arrived, but then something happened that resulted in humans and singers switching gods.

[Eternal Khol]

52 minutes ago, Weltall said:

but then something happened that resulted in humans and singers switching gods.

it was probably just easier for odium.

Brandon said that the Singers gave Odium more of an ear

the humans went to Roshar, started taking the Singers homes and the singers hated them for it and so when odium came and whispered or whatever to them, it was easier to convince the Singers to attack the humans that it was to convince the Humans to attack the Singers

Edited July 15, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[+Harrycrapper]

42 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Thanks to Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded we know that humans predated the arrival of the Shards on all but two places, one of which is explicitly Scadrial (because it didn't exist before) and Oathbringer gave us Roshar as the second place, which means humans would have been on Ashyn when Odium arrived. It's likely that Adonalsium put them there for whatever Grand Design he had for the system, though we can't discount that there were pre-Shattering worldhoppers who chose to go there for some unrelated reason.

You and I seem to have interpreted what Khriss said very differently from myself. I don't have the passage on hand right now, but it said something like you said to the effect of "humans in all but two places predate the Shattering." I took this to mean that the humans on two planets were artificially created after the Shattering by the newly formed Shards. Also, there are likely a lot of places that weren't settled before the Shattering besides Scadrial, so I don't think Roshar/Rosharans were the second people that she was mentioning. 

 

[Weltall]

2 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

You and I seem to have interpreted what Khriss said very differently from myself. I don't have the passage on hand right now, but it said something like you said to the effect of "humans in all but two places predate the Shattering." I took this to mean that the humans on two planets were artificially created after the Shattering by the newly formed Shards.

The exact line is "(Scadrial) is one of only two places in the cosmere where humankind does not predate the arrival of the Shards.". Not Shattering, arrival.

[+Harrycrapper]

16 hours ago, Weltall said:

The exact line is "(Scadrial) is one of only two places in the cosmere where humankind does not predate the arrival of the Shards.". Not Shattering, arrival.

Still not sure how that applies to Rosharans in a concrete way. It's not confirmed that the humans on Ashyn were there before or after Cultivation or Honor. They definitely didn't make it to Roshar before them, though it may have been simultaneous. Where are you getting that humans in the Rosharan system predate the arrival of Cultivation and Honor?