Hemalurgy Theoretical Moral Dilemma

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Since the OP specified that I'm the only one who knows, the author is dead. I'm picturing some crumbly old tome discovered in a basement or something.

Yeah but the author might have told someone or someone else might have gotten to the book first.  That scenario does not indicate that you are the only one.  In fact no scenario that I can think of actually guarantees what you want.

[danex]

Just now, Karger said:

Yeah but the author might have told someone or someone else might have gotten to the book first.  That scenario does not indicate that you are the only one.  In fact no scenario that I can think of actually guarantees what you want.

Say the book is sealed, and within the book the author says he hasn’t ever told anyone, he’s going to die as soon as the book is finished, and he mentioned that he’s the one that put the seal on.

[Karger]

14 minutes ago, Danex said:

Say the book is sealed, and within the book the author says he hasn’t ever told anyone, he’s going to die as soon as the book is finished, and he mentioned that he’s the one that put the seal on.

It is possible to reseal a book and even if not someone else could have independently come across the same information as the author.

[Necessary Eagle]

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Yeah but the author might have told someone or someone else might have gotten to the book first.  That scenario does not indicate that you are the only one.  In fact no scenario that I can think of actually guarantees what you want.

Except

Quote

2. You know that you are the only person that knows.

[Turos]

But hypothetically no one else knows and you somehow, perhaps unexplainable even to yourself, know this to be true and it is. The how isn’t important for the sake of this exercise.

 

I wouldn’t want to spike myself, assuming I understood what it did to my own spirit. If I wasn’t aware of that, I still don’t think I would be able to stomach the idea of spiking someone else, even if they deserved to die. I probably would tell someone close about it without the specifics, and I might start to search for other kinds of powers, whether they existed or not, trying to glean clues from whatever method I discovered hemalurgy.

I guess it depends on how much I understood about how it worked.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Turos

[Karger]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:24 PM, Necessary Eagle said:

Except

My point is that I don't see any way for this hypothetical dilemma to actually be true.

[danex]

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

My point is that I don't see any way for this hypothetical dilemma to actually be true.

*Cough* that’s why it’s hypothetical *cough*

[Karger]

8 minutes ago, Danex said:

*Cough* that’s why it’s hypothetical *cough*

I understand but too many of my friends are academics.  I look for the questions behind the questions.

[theTruthshaper]

3 hours ago, Danex said:

*Cough* that’s why it’s hypothetical *cough*

The point is that it is hypothetically impossible

[Necessary Eagle]

19 hours ago, Karger said:

My point is that I don't see any way for this hypothetical dilemma to actually be true.

You found it by opening a Ye Olde Tyme Capsule?

[Karger]

25 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

You found it by opening a Ye Olde Tyme Capsule?

Who made Ye olde Tyme Capsule?  What if they told someone while drunk and they made a hemalurgy cult?

Edited July 19, 2020 by Karger

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Karger said:

Who made Ye olde Tyme Capsule?  What if they told someone while drunk and they made a hemalurgy cult?

Let's just say that there was a book written at the beginning of time that contained the only knowledge of Hemalurgy and you are the first person to find it.

[Karger]

43 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Let's just say that there was a book written at the beginning of time that contained the only knowledge of Hemalurgy and you are the first person to find it.

Then I would be more interested in the verifiable existence of god.

[Necessary Eagle]

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Who made Ye olde Tyme Capsule?  What if they told someone while drunk and they made a hemalurgy cult?

I made an assumption and, as per the OP, happened to be right.

Or, there was a long rambling preface about how the world isn't worthy of learning her secrets, not yet, so she hasn't told any of the fools around her about her glorious method, but someday, in the far far future, mankind will be ready to learn the Arts of Impalement, and so she bids the far far future reader to release her writings to all. Etc etc. And I took her at her word and, as per the OP, happened to be right.

[Trutharchivist]

I won't tell anyone. I mean, there is practically no way I can see hemalurgy could be justified. Now, there might be a chance someone else knows of it, but if I found a sealed book etc I don't think anyone found it before, since they would've taken it, because if they wouldn't want anyone to know about it, whether they have conscience or not. if they don't, they'll want to have an edge, to be the only ones knowing about it. 

Actually, I once thought that hemalurgy could be a good execution method for criminal metalborn - or even normal criminals - on Scadrial, but on our world I think a bit differently. I wasn't considering the soul ripping anyway, so it's still debatable, even in the cosmere.

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Or, there was a long rambling preface about how the world isn't worthy of learning her secrets, not yet, so she hasn't told any of the fools around her about her glorious method, but someday, in the far far future, mankind will be ready to learn the Arts of Impalement, and so she bids the far far future reader to release her writings to all. Etc etc. And I took her at her word and, as per the OP, happened to be right.

And she has never gotten drunk/talked in her sleep/had an inquisitive younger sibling?  Also given what the book says the woman involved was a serial killer.  Maybe take the book to the police?

[theTruthshaper]

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

And she has never gotten drunk/talked in her sleep/had an inquisitive younger sibling?  Also given what the book says the woman involved was a serial killer.  Maybe take the book to the police?

I am honestly with you on the fact that it is practically impossible for such a book to exist. But, let's just say for the sake of the argument, that the book materialized in front of you and dropped into your hands while you are alone.

Edited July 20, 2020 by The_Truthwatcher

[Karger]

59 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

But, let's just say for the sake of the argument, that the book materialized in front of you and dropped into your hands while you are alone.

OK then.  I am going to spend time investigating this case of spontaneous generation.  Hemalurgy itself is not really of any use to me(nor anyone else) unless magic exists.

[theTruthshaper]

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

OK then.  I am going to spend time investigating this case of spontaneous generation.  Hemalurgy itself is not really of any use to me(nor anyone else) unless magic exists.

This is exactly my problem with this prompt. For it to be true, many other, more interesting stuff must also happen/be possible.

[Azarias]

On 17/07/2020 at 4:58 AM, Danex said:

Wow this is getting a lot more attention than I thought it would, and these are some really great answers!

Now, I have a follow up question to everyone who said they wouldn’t tell anyone. Can you think of any situation where you might tell someone? Any situation where you might experiment or use Hemalurgy? 

While using I would say that using it on humans would definitely be wrong, there could be a case made for using it on animals. Imagine if you could take a cheetahs speed,  or add a dolphins intelligence onto your own. In fact, taking an animals health and giving it to a sick person sounds perfectly moral, at least to myself, who values a human life above an animals. The risk is that by revealing it, even if you just intend to use it on animals, it could be used on humans against your will

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, Azarias said:

While using I would say that using it on humans would definitely be wrong, there could be a case made for using it on animals. Imagine if you could take a cheetahs speed,  or add a dolphins intelligence onto your own. In fact, taking an animals health and giving it to a sick person sounds perfectly moral, at least to myself, who values a human life above an animals. The risk is that by revealing it, even if you just intend to use it on animals, it could be used on humans against your will

 

[Azarias]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

OK then.  I am going to spend time investigating this case of spontaneous generation.  Hemalurgy itself is not really of any use to me(nor anyone else) unless magic exists.

It can be, as it can steal more than just magical abilities. It can steal things like strength, mental fortitude and intelligence.

PHYSICAL						COGNITIVE
	Iron Steals strength	Steel Steals Physical Allomantic powers		Zinc Steals emotional fortitude	Brass Steals Cognitive Feruchemical powers
	Tin Steals Senses	Pewter Steals Physical Feruchemical powers		Copper Steals mental fortitude, memory, and intelligence	Bronze Steals Mental Allomantic powers
	Chromium Might steal destiny	Nicrosil Steals Investiture	Cadmium Steals Temporal Allomantic powers	Bendalloy Steals Spiritual Feruchemical powers
	Aluminum Removes all powers	Duralumin Steals Connection/Identity	Gold Steals Hybrid Feruchemical powers	Electrum Steals Enhancement Allomantic powers
SPIRITUAL					TEMPORAL

Edited July 20, 2020 by Azarias

[Azarias]

On 23/08/2017 at 11:35 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

Stupid question: if you spiked a beaver, would it be able to understand how to use its powers, and in that case, could you create a terrifying Fullborn beaver overlord?

You could spike a beaver, but you could also do that to any human and get someone who could understand, and use, their powers much better, thus defeating the beaver overlord

 

[Karger]

16 minutes ago, Azarias said:

It can be, as it can steal more than just magical abilities. It can steal things like strength, mental fortitude and intelligence.

Sure but you would have to kill/mutilate someone to do it and would probably gain some really nasty mental health problems.  Gaining magic(something you can't have without hemalurgy) might make it worth it but anything else it would make more sense to just train physically and mentally.

[Hoid the Former Drifter]

Azarias, where is that chart from?