Late-knight randomness (or any time when other activity is low)

[DramaQueen]

Just now, The_Truthwatcher said:

Jenna/Beetle romance was awesome. Unfortunately....

NO DONT TELL ME SOMETHING HAPPENS IN THE TRILOGY THAT RUINS IT I HATE YOU!!!!!!JIJIFJOIEF HGJEFJIFSJELFJLEIJS

[theTruthshaper]

2 minutes ago, DramaQueen said:

NO DO;NT TELL ME SOMETHING HAPPENS IN THE TRILOGY THAT RUINS IT I HATE YOU!!!!!!JIJIFJOIEF HGJEFJIFSJELFJLEIJS

Two words:

Spoiler

Are you sure?

Spoiler

Septimus/Jenna

Spoiler

It's true.

Spoiler

Look in your Heart, you know it to be true

Spoiler

Why are you still opening these?

Spoiler

Seriously, don't open anymore of these.

Spoiler

I was just joking.

 

[DramaQueen]

Just now, The_Truthwatcher said:

Two words:

  Hide contents

Are you sure?

  Hide contents

Septimus/Jenna

  Hide contents

It's true.

  Hide contents

Look in your Heart, you know it to be true

  Hide contents

Why are you still opening these?

  Hide contents

Seriously, don't open anymore of these.

  Hide contents

I was just joking.

 

Ok for the first while all but the last one I was like NO NO NO STOP JENNA AND SEP ARE SIBLINGS MAYBE NOT BLOOD BUT STILL INCEST

Then on the last one I hated you with every fiber of my being.

[theTruthshaper]

To be fair, I have NOT read the last one, and the first two had very much vibes of S/J

[DramaQueen]

Just now, The_Truthwatcher said:

To be fair, I have NOT read the last one, and the first two had very much vibes of S/J

no. i refuse to accept this. just. no. absolutely not.

[Nathrangking]

5 hours ago, Darkfinder said:

So from some research on Caesar's death and what I found said that the roman leaders thought he was making a bid to become king so they organized a conspiracy aiming to remove him and keep the system the same as it was. But his death lead to the Roman Republics collapse so and the Roman empire forming so it didn't even achieve what they wanted. On top of that I don't think that any of the assassins wanted to help the republic in anyway they just wanted to hold on to the power and Caesar being crowned would take that power away from them. So I think it was an excuse to keep power to themselves and in the end destroyed the republic.

Take all this with a grain of salt I only did some quick research so I might of gotten some facts wrong and I wasn't there and will never know the real reason why they killed him.

4 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

The only think I know and want to know about Ceaser's death is that Mark Anthony was peak public speaker.

@Darkfinder It's quite true that they thought he was making a power play and tried to one up him so to speak. Even Cicero was skeptical of Caesar and he was about as level headed as they come. He stayed out of the conspiracy which might make one think that this was no more than an excuse. However, these were powerful and respected men in their own right. Until they acted they were for the most part beloved. Would they risk destroying a similarly beloved man in Caesar if it were not for the good of the republic?

@The_Truthwatcher alas that is but an invention. In reality the man was not even a particularly good general.

 

[theTruthshaper]

16 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

@The_Truthwatcher alas that is but an invention. In reality the man was not even a particularly good general.

I know that, he loses his AND Egypt's fleet to the romans.

[Nathrangking]

29 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I know that, he loses his AND Egypt's fleet to the romans.

By all accounts the man liked to live dangerously. He was a bruiser and heavy drinker whose pride allowed Octavian to out think him at every turn. 

[danex]

Ohohoh I remember those books. I had to read the words “septimus heap” like 20 times but it finally clicked. Those books feel like a weird dream to me, I barely remember reading them but the scenes I do remember feel weirdly vivid. Like I remember something about ice tunnels and a magic sled. And something about swamp. And something about an island that gave calypso vibes. Like I swear I’ve had dreams based on this series but I never realized it because it seems to be buried in my subconscious. I don’t remember much cause I read the whole series in like a week, but iirc the big reveal at the very end is 

Spoiler

It actually take place on earth but thousands of years in the future?

Or at least that’s how I remember interpreting it.

 

Now I’m being reminded of a ton of other books I completely forgot about that have like, the same vibe. 
Like I think I remember something called the Magic Thief where dude turns into a cat or something? And what was that 10 book series with the disappointing ending...I think it was called Pendragon something?

Edited July 15, 2020 by Danex

[theTruthshaper]

3 minutes ago, Danex said:

Ohohoh I remember those books. I had to read the words “septimus heap” like 20 times but it finally clicked. Those books feel like a weird dream to me, I barely remember reading them but the scenes I do remember feel weirdly vivid. I don’t remember much cause I read the whole series in like a week, but iirc the big reveal at the very end is 

  Reveal hidden contents

It actually take place on earth but thousands of years in the future?

Or at least that’s how I interpreted it.

Yes. Something like that.

Spoiler

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke 

 

[danex]

I think that detail is why I remember it tbh, I think elementary school me must’ve been like “wooooaaaaahhhh“ to such a high degree that my brain decided to file the entire series away.

[PiedPiper]

Posting at mid-morning, because it's late at night somewhere.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

14 hours ago, Hentient said:

Im begging you please tell me where to get such a marvelous creation. 

Another marvel of the modern age, Amazon!

[Truthless of Shinovar]

Not late at night, but I remember reading Septimus heap a couple years ago and loving it! It’s been a while since I read it, but I remember it was a nice fun read

[+Doomstick]

That it was

[Nathrangking]

There is still this question to answer: Was the collapse of the republic inevitable or could it have been prevented?

[Mist]

Sleep. At night. That crazy idea.

So this is what Sharders discuss? Interesting. 

I would at least like to think it could have been prevented. 

[Darkfinder]

19 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

There is still this question to answer: Was the collapse of the republic inevitable or could it have been prevented?

I think that by the time Caesar was killed it was inevitable whether or whether not Caesar actually died as the roman republic was on the edge of collapsing for many years but Caesars death was the tipping point. But if things had been done far far earlier I believe that it might have lasted longer before collapsing.

As I said last post I don't actually know that much about roman history and this may be very wrong.

[danex]

Very mildly rated fun fact: The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, Roman, or an Empire. 

[Enter a username]

12 hours ago, Mist said:

Sleep. At night. That crazy idea.

Sleep? What's that?

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

On 7/14/2020 at 9:14 PM, Nathrangking said:

What are your thoughts on the assassination of Julius Caesar on the ides of march? Was it really what was best for the republic or was it an excuse? Was the collapse of the republic inevitable or could it have been prevented?

 

On 7/14/2020 at 9:49 PM, Darkfinder said:

So from some research on Caesar's death and what I found said that the roman leaders thought he was making a bid to become king so they organized a conspiracy aiming to remove him and keep the system the same as it was. But his death lead to the Roman Republics collapse so and the Roman empire forming so it didn't even achieve what they wanted. On top of that I don't think that any of the as. Asassins wanted to help the republic in anyway they just wanted to hold on to the power and Caesar being crowned would take that power away from them. So I think it was an excuse to keep power to themselves and in the end destroyed the republic.

Caesar was an exceptional general, and a very smart and capable person. But it is undeniable that he fundamentally broke the Roman Republic and set Rome on the path of inevitable decline and dissolution. He was a demagogue that undermined the power of the foremost body of the old republic, namely the senate, by lavishing money on the plebians in order to secure lucrative posts for himself and his supporters. He really was ambition incarnate, and he used his eloquence and the false projection of reasoned compromise (that he knew wouldn't be accepted by the senate) to appeal directly to the commons to make an end run around the senate to establish laws by decree before he even left Rome for Gaul. He was ruthless to his enemies, but always willing to extend clemency to those he had beaten who could be useful to fulfill his ambitions. He also inspired extreme loyalty in his troops by his tireless exertions, the example of his bravery, and by his knack for winning battles against impossible odds. 

It can be argued that this was just an extension of his uncle Marius' populist policies as the leader of the Populares faction, and further that he employed some of the same tactics to seize power that Sulla (the leader of the Optimates, the conservative pro Senate faction) employed to seize power from the Marius faction. Caesar also capitalized on the popular anger against Sulla's policy of prescription (offering a 2 talent bounty on purported enemies of the Optimates). This policy really was just a pretext to seize and auction assets, and it made Sulla very unpopular. And part of his early strategy of rising to power involved the bold resuscitation of his Uncle Marius' legacy, to endear himself to the commons. Like Sulla, after he marched on Rome he had himself declared dictator.

During his time as dictator, he expanded the number of sitting senators, filling the senate with his own supporters, and turning the senate into nothing more than a rubber stamp body. Further he forced the Senate to confer upon him titles like "Father of the Fatherland" and "Imperator" which essentially just rubbed their noses in the fact that they no longer had any real power. Senators like Cato and Cicero had long seen this coming (Cicero was blamed to a small degree for helping clear Caesar of the Catiline conspiracy) and the members of the Optimate faction decided that assassination was the only way to return to the Republic. Unfortunately for the conspirators Caesar was loved by the commons (due to his constant attempts to curry their favor), so instead of being hailed as heros that saved the roman Republic the conspirators had to hide from the angry mob of rioters (who were incited by Marc Antony).

Also, unfortunate for the conspirators, was the fact that Caesar had adopted Augustus for his heir, who the Optimates thought to control as a counter force to Mark Anthony's growing ambitions. They clasped tight the snake to their chest, because Augustus had learned well the trick of putative magnanimity, conferring meaningless honors on the senate while forcing them to make him emperor for life.

Possibly the most damaging aspect of Caesar's legacy was that his policies removed the systems of checks on executive (consular or dictatorial) power. The list of Augustus successors reads a bit like a list of supervillains.

Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero.

With the exception of Claudius, whom many historians regard as somewhat simple, all the rest of emperors in the Julio-Claudian dynasty abused their powers horribly. Absolute power corrupts, etc. 

Though Rome did produce Marcus Aurelius, the forces that led to it's decline were well in motion when Caesar was assasinated.

 

[Nathrangking]

2 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

 

Caesar was an exceptional general, and a very smart and capable person. But it is undeniable that he fundamentally broke the Roman Republic and set Rome on the path of inevitable decline and dissolution. He was a demagogue that undermined the power of the foremost body of the old republic, namely the senate, by lavishing money on the plebians in order to secure lucrative posts for himself and his supporters. He really was ambition incarnate, and he used his eloquence and the false projection of reasoned compromise (that he knew wouldn't be accepted by the senate) to appeal directly to the commons to make an end run around the senate to establish laws by decree before he even left Rome for Gaul. He was ruthless to his enemies, but always willing to extend clemency to those he had beaten who could be useful to fulfill his ambitions. He also inspired extreme loyalty in his troops by his tireless exertions, the example of his bravery, and by his knack for winning battles against impossible odds. 

It can be argued that this was just an extension of his uncle Marius' populist policies as the leader of the Populares faction, and further that he employed some of the same tactics to seize power that Sulla (the leader of the Optimates, the conservative pro Senate faction) employed to seize power from the Marius faction. Caesar also capitalized on the popular anger against Sulla's policy of prescription (offering a 2 talent bounty on purported enemies of the Optimates). This policy really was just a pretext to seize and auction assets, and it made Sulla very unpopular. And part of his early strategy of rising to power involved the bold resuscitation of his Uncle Marius' legacy, to endear himself to the commons. Like Sulla, after he marched on Rome he had himself declared dictator.

During his time as dictator, he expanded the number of sitting senators, filling the senate with his own supporters, and turning the senate into nothing more than a rubber stamp body. Further he forced the Senate to confer upon him titles like "Father of the Fatherland" and "Imperator" which essentially just rubbed their noses in the fact that they no longer had any real power. Senators like Cato and Cicero had long seen this coming (Cicero was blamed to a small degree for helping clear Caesar of the Catiline conspiracy) and the members of the Optimate faction decided that assassination was the only way to return to the Republic. Unfortunately for the conspirators Caesar was loved by the commons (due to his constant attempts to curry their favor), so instead of being hailed as heros that saved the roman Republic the conspirators had to hide from the angry mob of rioters (who were incited by Marc Antony).

Also, unfortunate for the conspirators, was the fact that Caesar had adopted Augustus for his heir, who the Optimates thought to control as a counter force to Mark Anthony's growing ambitions. They clasped tight the snake to their chest, because Augustus had learned well the trick of putative magnanimity, conferring meaningless honors on the senate while forcing them to make him emperor for life.

Possibly the most damaging aspect of Caesar's legacy was that his policies removed the systems of checks on executive (consular or dictatorial) power. The list of Augustus successors reads a bit like a list of supervillains.

Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero.

With the exception of Claudius, whom many historians regard as somewhat simple, all the rest of emperors in the Julio-Claudian dynasty abused their powers horribly. Absolute power corrupts, etc. 

Though Rome did produce Marcus Aurelius, the forces that led to it's decline were well in motion when Caesar was assasinated.

 

A solid analysis. The historian Adrian Goldsworthy posits and I tend to agree that the wheels placing Rome on this path were set in motion long before Caesar or even Marius came onto the world stage. The inevitability was if it was inevitable built into the system. This system which ran on the premise of one upping your opponent to attain ever more power even if that means burying those who stand in your way. Caesar learned from the best Crassus and Pompey turned the system on its head in ways never imagined. The system allowed everything to spiral when one man or faction gained enough money to toss any other consideration out. I'm skeptical of the claim by Brutus and his Co- Conspirators that their aim was to restore the Republic. The honors of Caesar may not have helped, but the process only accelerated because he was better at using the system than his contemporaries.  

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

1 hour ago, Nathrangking said:

A solid analysis. The historian Adrian Goldsworthy posits and I tend to agree that the wheels placing Rome on this path were set in motion long before Caesar or even Marius came onto the world stage. The inevitability was if it was inevitable built into the system. This system which ran on the premise of one upping your opponent to attain ever more power even if that means burying those who stand in your way. Caesar learned from the best Crassus and Pompey turned the system on its head in ways never imagined. The system allowed everything to spiral when one man or faction gained enough money to toss any other consideration out. I'm skeptical of the claim by Brutus and his Co- Conspirators that their aim was to restore the Republic. The honors of Caesar may not have helped, but the process only accelerated because he was better at using the system than his contemporaries.  

I totally agree. The thing that most people gloss over when they talk about the golden age of the Roman Republic is the fact that it was only golden for those citizens of Rome who were equestrian class or higher. While a certain social mobility was allowed for through military service and dispensation the economy still ran on the back of slave labor and the perpetual taxation of subject nations. The reforms attempted by the Gracchi are symptomatic of this inherent flaw, and this plebian / patrician divide was really the lever that the politically ambitious Romans used to achieve power. One of the singular mistakes that stands out to me of the Senate in the end days of the Republic was allowing Marius to pass legislation assigning control of legions to their commanding general instead of to the state. And, as you pointed out, the Roman system was basically designed to promote military men of ambition, with the constant campaigns to quell barbarous insurrection and the access that gave the successful governors to the spoils of war. Both Crassus and Pompey made their names and their fortunes campaigning, and commanded the loyalty of the legions under their command. It's almost impossible to think of Caesar without thinking of the almost cult like loyalty of his 10th legion (the details of what they did to preserve Caesar's honor are well laid out in Plutarch's life of Caesar).

[AonEne]

On 7/15/2020 at 0:47 AM, The_Truthwatcher said:

Yes!

The frst seven books were fairly good.

The trilogy was awful.

^^ Loved the series, wasn’t as much a fan of the sequel series. It just didn’t feel right, I don’t even know why. 

On 7/15/2020 at 1:41 AM, DramaQueen said:

I'm a sucker for a romantic subplot, so I tend to focus on... Jeetle? Benna? Also they're just so freaking adorable... But that scene is pretty cool

JEETLE! YES! 

On 7/15/2020 at 8:22 AM, Danex said:

Like I think I remember something called the Magic Thief where dude turns into a cat or something? And what was that 10 book series with the disappointing ending...I think it was called Pendragon something?

Magic Thief was fantastic! Pendragon was aight, though I agree that the ending was a bit lackluster. Could’ve been worse, though. 

[danex]

Mmmmmmmmm randomness

I love it.

Carrots
Gold Mines
Rocking Chairs
 

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Edited July 17, 2020 by Danex