Cosmere Relative Physical Strength

[MasterK-Bob]

I'm curious what we think about how strong different magic users are and whether we think certain magics effect strength, and how much. I'll give a list with descriptions in the order I'd rank them. I'm wondering if you think I'm missing any critical groups for consideration

Drab: Everything is just a hair worse for drabs. I suspect this effects strength, even if it's just a tiny effect

Normal human

Human at a high heightening: Everything is just a little better at a high heightening. I suspect this effects strength as well, even though it's not noted and the effect compared to the other more profound effects of heightening are probably comparatively negligible.

Listener in warform: Warform is for fighting and being strong is definitely an asset. I suspect listeners in war form aren't that much stronger than a strong human, but at least a little bit

Elantrian: Everything is significantly enhanced for Elantrians, and I suspect this includes strength, though I don't think regular Elantrians are necessarily outside the high end of the normal human range.

Returned: Their bodies, including their strength, are at least potentially seriously enhanced and idealized. You would expect them to be stronger than almost any normal human.

Radiant with stormlight: Kaladin doesn't think stormlight enhances his strength, but I think he's wrong. I suspect the effect isn't enormous, and he couldn't like, lift a truck, but I think radiants holding stormlight are still stronger than normal humans can ever become.

Allomancer burning pewter: Their main thing is their supernatural strength. I think even a weak pewter arm using his powers is about twice as strong as a very strong man.

Koloss: Definitely super-human in their strength

Dakhor monk: I think it's an exaggeration, but Dilaf suggests Dakhor monks are worth hundreds of soldiers, and they are clearly monstrously strong.

Active ChayShan user: Shuden clearly overmatches Dakhor monks when using this magic.

Person wearing shardplate: People can only wield shardhammers wearing plate, and show pretty incredible feats otherwise.

Allomancer Flaring pewter: This is the main cosmere strength-focused magic maxed out. I think WOBs under-estimate the power of this magic as demonstrated via character feats in the text.

Feruchemist tapping strength: This magic doesn't have a clear upper-limit. It's potentially the strongest, but it has serious limitations, like being almost too bulky to move, needing to have stored a ton of strength to use it for any significant period of time, etc. I think generally they are around where a pewter arm is in terms of strength if they don't max out.

Allomancer burning Pewter with Duralumin: Like strength feruchemy, this doesn't really seem to have an upper limit, but for a one-off feat, this is probably easier to achieve unless the feruchemist is a pewter compounder.

A Pewter compounder tapping strength while burning or flaring pewter: a theoretical pewter compounder would be absurdly strong, and have very little limit to their absurd strength.

*Edited to include shard plate, Duralumin Pewter, and Pewter compounding.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by MasterK-Bob

[Honorless]

Don't forget Shardplate, which I believe would be on the higher end of the spectrum

[Bigmikey357]

Also a double pewter Twinborn or a double pewter spiked Inquisitor should be added to the list. No problem with your order of strength so far. Though I will note that in the case of Stormlight,  a 2 Oath Kaladin cracked Shardplate with a running drop kick. That should factor in to the strength analysis. 

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Though I will note that in the case of Stormlight,  a 2 Oath Kaladin cracked Shardplate with a running drop kick. That should factor in to the strength analysis. 

He lashed himself multiple times, so it was the effect of dropping from several stories above.

[MasterK-Bob]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

He lashed himself multiple times, so it was the effect of dropping from several stories above.

I think it might be a lot more than that, actually. With multiple lashings, I think terminal velocity itself might be increased, although just how fast you could approach it, I'd sure, wouldn't be within the two dozen or so feet Kaladin probably would have had, if that.

[StanLemon]

I don't think Stormlight really increases strength much if at all. I think the healing nature of it simply allows them to use their maximum strength constantly without strain or worrying about tearing muscles. Maybe with an an adrenaline like kick to it.

[+Oltux72]

Mistborn burning Pewter and Duraluminium. Vin performed gruesome acts of strength.

[MasterK-Bob]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Mistborn burning Pewter and Duraluminium. Vin performed gruesome acts of strength.

Undoubtedly Duralumin and pewter also don't seem to have an upper limit, so they are like feruchemy--I guess it only matters how much pewter you have. Hmm

[Negative_Null]

I'm still unclear on how Hemalurgy actually works, but can't certain spikes increase physical attributes like say, strength?

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Negative_Null said:

I'm still unclear on how Hemalurgy actually works, but can't certain spikes increase physical attributes like say, strength?

If used multiple times you end up like a Koloss.

[+Bzhydack]

On 12.07.2020 at 5:33 PM, MasterK-Bob said:

Allomancer Flaring pewter: This is the main cosmere strength-focused magic maxed out. I think WOBs under-estimate the power of this magic as demonstrated via character feats in the text.

Feruchemist tapping strength: This magic doesn't have a clear upper-limit. It's potentially the strongest, but it has serious limitations, like being almost too bulky to move, needing to have stored a ton of strength to use it for any significant period of time, etc. I think generally they are around where a pewter arm is in terms of strength if they don't max out.

If we combine this, we have Pewter Twinborn, and he should be on top - burning compounded F-Pewter with simultanously burning A-Pewter will be insane.

Radiant is smowhat stronger than normal Human mostly because he can push his mucles above limit without worry of damaging them. This will be also case of Bloodmaker.

[Weltall]

2 hours ago, Negative_Null said:

I'm still unclear on how Hemalurgy actually works, but can't certain spikes increase physical attributes like say, strength?

Yeah, certain spikes can steal attributes like 'strength' or 'emotional fortitude'. Brandon came up with the idea while working out how to make the kandra and koloss work. These spikes are also noted to twist the recipient due to the way they work, so even one H-Iron spike is presumably going to result in some unpleasant side-effects. Shadows of Self confirms that a single spike can seriously twist a person as long as the right thing is spiked into them.

[Dunkum]

I'd probably guess Listener Warform is higher than base Elantrian, and that a Returned is probably higher than someone holding stormlight.  I also think that i'd put ferruchemist above duralumin+pewter, but at that point it really depends on how much pewter vs how much ferruchemical charge.

[trav]

I do not think that any hightening or being a Drab affects physical strength.

there was no indication that I can remember that the God Emperor was above human strength. with his insane amount of Breaths he should have been though, if Breath increased it.

[Weltall]

14 minutes ago, trav said:

I do not think that any hightening or being a Drab affects physical strength.

there was no indication that I can remember that the God Emperor was above human strength. with his insane amount of Breaths he should have been though, if Breath increased it.

Getting Breath on its own does not, so far as we can tell, do anything that affects physical strength, speed or dexterity. On the other hand, being a Returned does, as we see with both Vasher and Denth and this is a universal thing as confirmed by Brandon. We just don't see it much because none of the other Returned we meet have any training in how to fight and they're unable to put their natural advantage to good use, or likely even realize that it exists in the first place. Meanwhile those two are much savvier about just what it means to be a Returned and on top of that they've got centuries worth of experience.

[Spren of Kindness]

I would guess Stormlight doesn't make you stronger, but it might appear that way.  If a normal human here on Earth tries to lift something too heavy, you can mess up your back or other muscles.  But with Stormlight healing, a Radiant might lift heavier things.  

I will note that based off of physiological boundaries, this is pretty implausible.  Our brains set limits for what we can handle safely.  So if this were to happen, it wouldn't be very often.  Probably during very adrenaline fueled moments.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Spren of Kindness

[+Bzhydack]

Stormlight give smoe larger strengh. I know what Kal says, but we have an example - during Kal and Shallan escapade in Chasms, after fight against chasmfiend, when they try to hide from Highstorm, Shallan breaths Stormlight and was able to lift Kal with one hand, a little bit. Even Kal was thinking, that she uses abnormal strengh.

[Hoidolasium]

The reason Radiants don't need to breathe is because they are performing solely anaerobic respiration. There must, therefore, be some enhanced strength, since anaerobic respiration doesn't produce as much energy. They're not actually gaining any stamina, they just are instantly healing from the damage from lactic acid. 

[StanLemon]

On 7/16/2020 at 0:37 PM, Bzhydack said:

Stormlight give smoe larger strengh. I know what Kal says, but we have an example - during Kal and Shallan escapade in Chasms, after fight against chasmfiend, when they try to hide from Highstorm, Shallan breaths Stormlight and was able to lift Kal with one hand, a little bit. Even Kal was thinking, that she uses abnormal strengh.

This can be explained via the adrenaline like effect that Stormlight also gives the person has. When you heal instantly from it, you aren't going to feel the strain from weight as much as well.

 

10 hours ago, Hoidolasium said:

The reason Radiants don't need to breathe is because they are performing solely anaerobic respiration. There must, therefore, be some enhanced strength, since anaerobic respiration doesn't produce as much energy. They're not actually gaining any stamina, they just are instantly healing from the damage from lactic acid. 

They don't need to breath because they heal instantly and Stormlight produces the energy the body needs

[NameIess]

I think Shardplate is higher than flared pewter, as Vin managed to explode a pewter-burner's head with a headbutt at great effort and a Duraluminum boosted pewter burn, while people wearing Shardplate can crush bones and bend steel almost by accident.

[Hoidolasium]

12 hours ago, StanLemon said:

They don't need to breath because they heal instantly and Stormlight produces the energy the body needs

Right, they can't feel fatigue because their muscles never get sore. We don't know that Stormlight actually produces extra energy beyond the healing, although I guess it would if it's making up for the lack of energy. I don't really know how fast someone could perform anaerobic respiration if they weren't limited by pain and damage to their muscles, so the strength thing might be wrong. My point is that Radiants can be constantly pushing their muscles to a point where they would normally be exhausted after a few seconds.

[Weltall]

If there's any enhancement to strength from holding Stormlight beyond the fact that you can push your muscles to their limit without hurting yourself (which will look like a strength increase) it's not very much. We know for instance that it's not enough to explain Rock managing to draw a shardbow 'under normal circumstances'.

[StanLemon]

@Weltall It really makes you wonder just how powerful Rock really is

[Gisaku75]

17 hours ago, Nameless said:

I think Shardplate is higher than flared pewter, as Vin managed to explode a pewter-burner's head with a headbutt at great effort and a Duraluminum boosted pewter burn, while people wearing Shardplate can crush bones and bend steel almost by accident.

Is not the same thing. The power of Vin's head is given by the speed and physical hardness he acquires, not by his physical strength. To make a correct comparison you have to use their lifting capacity. Vin and Elend flaring pewter are able to fight nimbly with Koloss Swords which are more or less equivalent to Shard Hammers. So the pewter's strength should only be slightly less than that of the shardplate.

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, Gisaku75 said:

Is not the same thing. The power of Vin's head is given by the speed and physical hardness he acquires, not by his physical strength. To make a correct comparison you have to use their lifting capacity. Vin and Elend flaring pewter are able to fight nimbly with Koloss Swords which are more or less equivalent to Shard Hammers. So the pewter's strength should only be slightly less than that of the shardplate.

At the top your calling Vin male.

Lifting a shardbarers hammer is something that people in Shardplate do with one hand, and easily.

*Begins muttering*

And while yes in order to properly weild a sword you have to have some easiness of use two hands make a big difference.

And besides how would they use a weapon multiple times their weight? That would just throw them around to no matter their strength.