Why Radiants are incredibly overpowered, and Mistborn aren't.

[Frustration]

So I often come across topics that involve fights between Brandon's magic users and one of the most often talking points is how overpowered Mistborn are. I however have a hard time seeing that especially from the perspective that Stormlight Archive has given me. So I'm going to give a run down on how the two compare, and later an all out comparison from all magic systems.

 

1. Attack

Radiant- Shardblade, enhanced with Plate (Division, Gravitation, Transformation buffs when applicable)

Mistborn-Pewter, Steel, Dur-aluminum

In the offensive category the Radiant takes a huge advantage over their Mistborn counterparts, as most if not all of their attacks are one shot kills, on any non-Radiant, while A Mistborn's best is deadly it just isn't on the same level, Dur-aluminum can get it there but that make it a one time use.

 

2. Defence

Radiant- Shardplate, Shardblade, (Illusion, Tension buffs, when applicable)

Mistborn- Pewter, Steel

While a Radiant can shrug off basically anything a Mistborn is basically a glass cannon, and can only take so much punishment

 

3. Healing

Radiant- Stormlight, (Progression buffs, when applicable) 

Mistborn- Pewter

While A Radiant can basically live through anything as long as they have stormlight, a Mistborn only has a boosted recovery and no regeneration.

 

4.  Sensory 

Radiant- Spren, Stormlight, (Potential Tension/Cohesion buff when applicable)

Mistborn- Tin, Bendalloy, Bronze

Mistborn Actually wins this one being able to get more think time, and greater sensory input as well as an investiture detection.

 

All in all While a good build Mistborn just simply aren't up to the level of punishment a Radiant can dish out, and can't do enough damage of their own to be an effective match up.

 

Now I will look at all of the Major investiture users in the Cosmere, this will only count users of ONE magic system. Additionally fabrials and medallions will not be counted.(This is assuming all builds are at their peak that could reasonably be achieved (Radiant with Stormlight, Mistborn with Metals, Feruchemist with stores etc)

1. Radiant has the highest base damage defence and Healing
2. Feruchemist a useful power but with diminishing returns not the most impressive of magic.
3. Hemalurgists can basically become Fullborn, but at the cost of a huge vulnerability, that being that Allomancers and Harmony could seize control of them. I find this flaw too big for this magic system to be of real consideration.
4. Allomancers, relatively balanced but with almost no heal options and only two decent forms of attack.
5. Elantrian, Powerful and well rounded, the only drawback is that the power is regionalized and thus not a big power.
6. Voidbinder- ???
7. SandMaster, Has a high powered attack but lacks the healing and defence needed to really compete with the big players.
8. Awakener, almost useless in battle they could prepare something nasty but in a one to one battle, almost useless
9. Dakhor, Alright not really noteworthy in any regard, also regionalized.

[Darkfinder]

Mistborn are more stealthy and can move around to avoid enemies attacks. 

Though on average in a one on one fight a radiant will probably win unless the mist born has atium as that provides them with a massive advantage compared to radiants. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Darkfinder

[+Oltux72]

You left out mobility, emotional allomancy and short-changed the sensory department by leaving out elctrum. You are comparing an assassin/paramillitarty to a soldier.

[Karger]

It is a rouge vs fighter matchup.  In open combat even a poorly trained Radiant will be a match for your average Mistborn but if you put the best Mistborn against the best radiant inside a crazy area like a city the odds begin to swing the other way.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Karger

[trav]

as gravity manipulation of objects requires contact a Mistborn can shoot an infinite amount of coins into a Radiants face and wittle them down eventually.

the biggest selling point for Radiants are their Shardblade/Shardshield or w/e they currently wish their spren to become.

 

if both parties have knowledge of each other a Mistborns chance rise. Chromium can remove the investiture from the Radiant. 1 touch, 1 pewter punch, Mistborn wins.

 

[Hoidolasium]

Assuming access to Atium, a Mistborn wins right away by putting a dagger into the eyeslit.

Without it, they still have a good chance, but only if they have access to large quantities of metals. They have access to much better mobility than a Radiant, so they could in theory wear them down with coins until the Shardplate stops working. It does ultimately come down to the fact that they don't really share the same roles from a purely combat point of view. A Mistborn is a rare and valuable asset, whose emotional manipulation, use of the surroundings as a weapon, and enhanced strength and senses make them nearly the perfect assassins. A Radiant, on the other hand, is a soldier who has sworn oaths to uphold, and has in return gained power armor, a big lightsaber (yes they don't look similar, but they do work nearly the same), and access to two powers. They for the most part aren't supposed to work individually, but instead are with other members of their orders.

A good example would be just a samurai versus a ninja. In reality, ninjas were not very trained for combat - they would sneak into an area, take out their targets stealthily, then sneak out. On the other side, a samurai was trained to fight on the field of battle and was heavily armored. Their armor was able to stop the traditional thrown weapons of the ninja, and they had much better reach and strength than a ninja. In a fair fight on an empty field, a samurai will almost always win. However, as the fighting area becomes more complex, the versatile Mistborn/ninja gains more of an advantage over the bulky Radiant/samurai.

Note: take all this information with a grain of salt, I'm not that good at history.

[Frustration]

8 hours ago, Darkfinder said:

Mistborn are more stealthy and can move around to avoid enemies attacks. 

Lightweavers, Elsecallers, Willshapers, Stonewards and possibly Truthwatchers all have vastly supervisor stealth. Windrunners, Skybreakers, Elsecallers, Willshapers, Dustbrinngers, and Edgedanncers. All have MUCH higher evasion.

8 hours ago, Darkfinder said:

Though on average in a one on one fight a radiant will probably win unless the mist born has atium as that provides them with a massive advantage compared to radiants. 

 

2 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

Assuming access to Atium, a Mistborn wins right away by putting a dagger into the eyeslit.

Elsecallers can all but ignore Atium, and we can pretty safely bet that most Windrunners and Stonewards can overcome it. Additionally giving them Atium removes four of their other metals. And don't get me started on the possibility of Dawnshards.

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You left out mobility, emotional allomancy

Shardplate renders it useless.

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You left out mobility, emotional allomancy and short-changed the sensory department by leaving out elctrum. You are comparing an assassin/paramillitarty to a soldier.

Electrum won't do much good against the speed  given by plate and Stormlight.

I'll try to add a mobility stat up top later, I felt that I had forgotten something.

8 hours ago, Karger said:

It is a rouge vs fighter matchup.  In open combat even a poorly trained Radiant will be a match for your average radiant but if you put the best Mistborn against the best radiant inside a crazy area like a city the odds begin to swing the other way.

I'm going to assume one of you Radiants is meant to be Mistborn.

And not really, most likely most Radiants have at least one way to manipulate their surroundings.

3 hours ago, trav said:

as gravity manipulation of objects requires contact a Mistborn can shoot an infinite amount of coins into a Radiants face and wittle them down eventually.

Coins don't have enough power to get through plate without Dur-aluminum. And Lashings can be done with one touch and send the on their way.

3 hours ago, trav said:

the biggest selling point for Radiants are their Shardblade/Shardshield or w/e they currently wish their spren to become.

And plate and Stormlight and Surges, and, basically everything.

3 hours ago, trav said:

if both parties have knowledge of each other a Mistborns chance rise. Chromium can remove the investiture from the Radiant. 1 touch, 1 pewter punch, Mistborn wins.

Chromium can't get through plate, and even if it could, and let's say it could dismiss it, a Radiant is so much faster it's not a fair match, The Mistborns eyes would burn before they ever got a touch in.

10 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

Without it, they still have a good chance, but only if they have access to large quantities of metals. They have access to much better mobility than a Radiant, so they could in theory wear them down with coins until the Shardplate stops working. It does ultimately come down to the fact that they don't really share the same roles from a purely combat point of view. A Mistborn is a rare and valuable asset, whose emotional manipulation, use of the surroundings as a weapon, and enhanced strength and senses make them nearly the perfect assassins. A Radiant, on the other hand, is a soldier who has sworn oaths to uphold, and has in return gained power armor, a big lightsaber (yes they don't look similar, but they do work nearly the same), and access to two powers. They for the most part aren't supposed to work individually, but instead are with other members of their orders.

A good example would be just a samurai versus a ninja. In reality, ninjas were not very trained for combat - they would sneak into an area, take out their targets stealthily, then sneak out. On the other side, a samurai was trained to fight on the field of battle and was heavily armored. Their armor was able to stop the traditional thrown weapons of the ninja, and they had much better reach and strength than a ninja. In a fair fight on an empty field, a samurai will almost always win. However, as the fighting area becomes more complex, the versatile Mistborn/ninja gains more of an advantage over the bulky Radiant/samurai.

Note: take all this information with a grain of salt, I'm not that good at history.

I replied to you first two paragraphs in earlier parts here and a better comparison would be against European Knights, particularly rich knights trained in the art. Good luck sneaking up on someone who can instantly be inside an almost impenetrable sheild and a Spren.

[Karger]

38 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And not really, most likely most Radiants have at least one way to manipulate their surroundings.

Does not really help in a crowded city.

 

[Yolenlightweaver]

I feel like the Mistborn has the advantage of doing what they want. A radiant is constrained by the ideals they swear and what their spren thinks. If the radiant is not specifically fighting for something along their lines, a Mistborn might have an advantage.

[Hoidolasium]

54 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Coins don't have enough power to get through plate without Dur-aluminum. And Lashings can be done with one touch and send the on their way.

The point was that the Mistborn can wear down the Radiant. The coins just have to crack the plate, not go through. Even if they Lashed the coins instantly, their momentum remains.

 

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Electrum won't do much good against the speed  given by plate and Stormlight.

I'll try to add a mobility stat up top later, I felt that I had forgotten something.

Shardplate makes you faster, but not by an incredible amount. In fact, I'm pretty sure a Misting flaring pewter would be faster. Electrum would still be useful, since you'd still see what paths would lead to you getting hit and what one's wouldn't.

55 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Elsecallers can all but ignore Atium, and we can pretty safely bet that most Windrunners and Stonewards can overcome it. Additionally giving them Atium removes four of their other metals. And don't get me started on the possibility of Dawnshards.

Atium wouldn't remove the metals, at least to our current understanding. Leras temporarily removed Bendalloy and Chromium from public knowledge, but TLR kept industry in a state where they couldn't be produced anyway. Atium only removes those two, which aren't very useful in a head-on fight.

59 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I replied to you first two paragraphs in earlier parts here and a better comparison would be against European Knights, particularly rich knights trained in the art. Good luck sneaking up on someone who can instantly be inside an almost impenetrable sheild and a Spren.

Why would this be a better comparison? How much do you know about court assassins in Medieval England versus Ninjas? It is difficult to sneak up on a Radiant, you're right that I forgot about the Spren. The problem is, you're forgetting Shardplate's main weakness: as soon as it gets damaged, your opponent just needs to survive until you run out of Stormlight. In fact, now that I think about it, this fight really just comes down to who has more Investiture. Metal is clearly a denser source of Investiture than gems, so the Radiant would need to finish the fight quick before they can't use Surges anymore.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

The point was that the Mistborn can wear down the Radiant. The coins just have to crack the plate, not go through. Even if they Lashed the coins instantly, their momentum remains.

A coin wouldn't even crack plate there is a you tube video I'll link later called armor vs arrows medieval myth busting. But I'll summerize here, basically regular plate is almost immune to arrows shot by a bow with a draw weight of 160 pounds, coins aren't doing anything to Shardplate, not a crack.

8 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

Shardplate makes you faster, but not by an incredible amount. In fact, I'm pretty sure a Misting flaring pewter would be faster. Electrum would still be useful, since you'd still see what paths would lead to you getting hit and what one's wouldn't.

Yes but you can't do anything with that knowledge if the opponent is faster than you. Pewter can't beat plate and Stormlight.

11 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

Atium wouldn't remove the metals, at least to our current understanding. Leras temporarily removed Bendalloy and Chromium from public knowledge, but TLR kept industry in a state where they couldn't be produced anyway. Atium only removes those two, which aren't very useful in a head-on fight.

You can't give an Era 1 Mistborn era 2 metals. In era two there is almost no Atium and none in the public access so they can either have Era 2 metals or Era 1 metals but not both.

13 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

Why would this be a better comparison? How much do you know about court assassins in Medieval England versus Ninjas? It is difficult to sneak up on a Radiant, you're right that I forgot about the Spren. The problem is, you're forgetting Shardplate's main weakness: as soon as it gets damaged, your opponent just needs to survive until you run out of Stormlight. In fact, now that I think about it, this fight really just comes down to who has more Investiture. Metal is clearly a denser source of Investiture than gems, so the Radiant would need to finish the fight quick before they can't use Surges anymore.

Cracks close in a Radiants armor, and a Mistborn can only do it in the first place with Dur-aluminum witch leaves them open to a counter strike.

[theTruthshaper]

If there are metal sources nearby a Mistborn would defeat all KR except Windrunners and Skybreakers, simply by sheer mobility. These two would probably be able to defeat the Mistborn simply because of the healing factor.

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You can't give an Era 1 Mistborn era 2 metals. In era two there is almost no Atium and none in the public access so they can either have Era 2 metals or Era 1 metals but not both.

This is a weird limitation. An Era 1 Mistborn can (probably) burn cadmium and bendalloy. All Preservation changed was the formation of Atium mistings, which was not a natural feature of the magic system.

[+Harrycrapper]

These fights usually come down to a question of how much investiture is available. If the prospective Mistborn and Knight Radiant have realistically limited investiture(a few vials of metals vs a sizable pouch of infused gemstones), the Mistborn could probably outlast a KR. I could see a Mistborn wearing down a KR and maybe get a coin through the visor slot in Shardplate similar to how Kaladin defeated his first Shardbearer. Another viable tactic is breaking the helmet which makes the KR even more vulnerable. I also think the OP forgot emotional Allomancy, though I'm wondering if Shardplate blocks that. If so, taking the helmet out of the equation would also solve that problem. I think most people underestimate the efficacy of an attack via emotional Allomancy by someone who is skilled at it. Especially against people who would be unaccustomed to such attacks like a resident of Roshar. A properly placed Duralamin soothing/rioting could be devastating. 

If they both had infinite investiture, the KR would never die. There's no question to that, so they win there. A Highstorm would also skew a battle like this in favor of a KR. 

[Hoidolasium]

4 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

I also think the OP forgot emotional Allomancy, though I'm wondering if Shardplate blocks that.

It does, Shardplate is protected from most kinds of Investiture. I don't know if removing the helmet would actually stop emotional Allomancy. You can't Push or Pull on it either.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Hoidolasium
More

[+Harrycrapper]

3 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

It does, Shardplate is protected from most kinds of Investiture. I don't know if removing the helmet would actually stop emotional Allomancy. You can't Push or Pull on it either.

If the helmet functions much in the same way an aluminum lined hat does, I suspect removing it would probably open the wearer to emotional Allomancy. If the Plate as whole acts like a coppercloud does with respect to emotional Allomancy for the person generating it, then I'm guessing it would not.

[+Oltux72]

5 hours ago, trav said:

the biggest selling point for Radiants are their Shardblade/Shardshield or w/e they currently wish their spren to become.

Well, no. Whether your head is cut off with a conventional sword or your eyes burned out, will make no difference in the end result. The Blades are so devastating in a war situation because they nullify the enemy's weapons and armor as defensive equipment. In combat between two individuals with arcane powers, they are overkill.

The real extreme advantage the Radiant may have is Plate. It renders him quite invulnerable and physically much stronger.

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Shardplate renders it useless.

Yes. Again the largest advantage is Plate. A Radiant without Plate has a very serious problem fighting a Mistborn.

 

[Hoidolasium]

 

Quote

 

Argent

We know that you can't Lash people in Shardplate, but can you Lash the person inside the Plate? If they had their helm off, for example. At that point Plate should be just dead weight, right? 

Brandon Sanderson

There's a bit of an interference envelope. Wearing plate, the person has this big ball of investiture around them, and so pushing any through it--even by touching a person without a helm--is going to be tough. Easier than with the helm on though, I suppose.

Investiture acts (roughly) like a saturated solution in these cases. Sticking more power into something like a Feruchemical storage or a hyper-invested object like Plate is increasingly hard. The other part is that Investiture tends to interfere with other Investiture, unless there's a familiar resonance. (This is part of what philosophers call Identity.) Slapping your hand through a sand master's stream of sand will cause interference, and make them start to drop. It's not that the sand is supporting them, it's that the investiture holding them up gets scrambled for a moment because of your own investiture.

Investiture pushed toward someone inside a hyper-invested (supersaturated) system like a person in Shardplate is going to get hard push-back.

This is similar to the reason that it's harder to Push on invested coins. Depends on how invested they are, in that case. It's generally not as hard as doing something like Lashing a person in plate. (This is more about the interference than the saturation of investiture.) But the two principles are what I use to guide the physics in these areas.

quietandproud

Can we take that as a hint that the Investiture in the Plates and the Investiture that the Surge of [Adhesion] uses come from different Shards? Or do they interfere because they "belong" to different spren?

Brandon Sanderson

You know, I should have realized this one would bring out the follow up questions. Let's leave it at what I posted for now. This is a deep, deep rabbit hole, and I do need to try to get some more writing done tonight. So...RAFO. (Sorry.)

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Nov. 2, 2016)

 

Removing the helm would help, but it wouldn't instantly make the Radiant vulnerable.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Hoidolasium

[theTruthshaper]

But unless a Radiant has lots of stormlight, a Mistborn can simply fly around them, wearing them down, waiting for a lucky shot. (This obviously won't work for Windrunners/Skybreakers). Radiants have practically no range attacks.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

If the helmet functions much in the same way an aluminum lined hat does, I suspect removing it would probably open the wearer to emotional Allomancy. If the Plate as whole acts like a coppercloud does with respect to emotional Allomancy for the person generating it, then I'm guessing it would not.

It's closer to a copper cloud

36 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

If there are metal sources nearby a Mistborn would defeat all KR except Windrunners and Skybreakers, simply by sheer mobility. These two would probably be able to defeat the Mistborn simply because of the healing factor.

Elsecaller, Lightweaver Stoneward, Bondsmith, Edgedancer, and potentially Dustbringers and Truthwatchers all can avoid that.

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. Again the largest advantage is Plate. A Radiant without Plate has a very serious problem fighting a Mistborn.

And a Mistborn without metals is at a sever disadvantage fighting a Radiant, we're going to take them at their peak meaning 5th Ideall Radiant and a Mistborn not a Misting.

3 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

But unless a Radiant has lots of stormlight, a Mistborn can simply fly around them, wearing them down, waiting for a lucky shot. (This obviously won't work for Windrunners/Skybreakers). Radiants have practically no range attacks.

They can make bows, and have soulcasting

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

They can make bows, and have soulcasting

I was thinking we are consider just User+Investiture. Shardbows are theoreticly possible, but we dont know how to make projectiles. But if you are talking about Shardbearers Bow, why Mistborn cannot have a gun? Few large caliber bullets and he dont have Shardplate but Shardpieces. Weve seen Shardplates shattered by large slings.

Anyway, we have 10 Radiant Orders, and any of them will have different chances.

The best chances of course will have Windrunners and Skybreakers, due to mobility and range - they have Gravity Surge. Windrunners can also use adhesion and something to tank coins. Skybreakers can try destroy coins with Division Surge. We still dont know can Division be used from distance.

Next will be probably Lightweavers, with camuflage and soulcasting they can dodge everything, can also close distance. One disadvantage will be fact, they cant fly, but light and sound can be used as ranged attack. Probably here will be also Elsecallers and Willshapers, with their Transportation Surge. Soulcasting is less usefull, because cannot be far away and cannot be used directly against Mistborn, because he is heavily Invested. They can try trapt Mistborn with soulcasting or Cohesion, but it will be difficult.

Next probably will be Truthwatcher, because of Ilumination powers, but they are still not very mobile. If Division can be used from distance, here will be also Dustbringers. Or even higer. If not, they will be lower.

And on the bottom we have Stonewards, Edgedancers and Bondsmiths. They lack mobility and ranged attackss possibility. Mistborn will be able to dodge them and shot, untill they burn all Stormlight.

This is the thing. Allomancy is less powerfull overall, but is also more efficient than Stormlight. Mistborn need realy small amount of metals to keep going, so can have much larger reserves of them than Radiant. Can also relativly easy cut off Radiants Investiture bateries - gemstones, while Radiant cannot do this as easly (because Mistborn can simply have really large amount of metals in stomach). Sormlight also have tendency to leak, and metals havent.

So this is it. All Mistborn have to do is outlast Radiant.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

I was thinking we are consider just User+Investiture. Shardbows are theoreticly possible, but we dont know how to make projectiles. But if you are talking about Shardbearers Bow, why Mistborn cannot have a gun? Few large caliber bullets and he dont have Shardplate but Shardpieces. Weve seen Shardplates shattered by large slings.

1. I am referring to Shardbows not granbows
2. Those Slings where throwing head sized rocks and only caused "small cracks" and puffs of stormlight from joints
3. I'm alright banning the Radiants from having arrows but Mistborn loses coins in that deal

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Anyway, we have 10 Radiant Orders, and any of them will have different chances.

The best chances of course will have Windrunners and Skybreakers, due to mobility and range - they have Gravity Surge. Windrunners can also use adhesion and something to tank coins. Skybreakers can try destroy coins with Division Surge. We still dont know can Division be used from distance.

Next will be probably Lightweavers, with camuflage and soulcasting they can dodge everything, can also close distance. One disadvantage will be fact, they cant fly, but light and sound can be used as ranged attack. Probably here will be also Elsecallers and Willshapers, with their Transportation Surge. Soulcasting is less usefull, because cannot be far away and cannot be used directly against Mistborn, because he is heavily Invested. They can try trapt Mistborn with soulcasting or Cohesion, but it will be difficult.

Next probably will be Truthwatcher, because of Ilumination powers, but they are still not very mobile. If Division can be used from distance, here will be also Dustbringers. Or even higer. If not, they will be lower.

And on the bottom we have Stonewards, Edgedancers and Bondsmiths. They lack mobility and ranged attackss possibility. Mistborn will be able to dodge them and shot, untill they burn all Stormlight.

This is the thing. Allomancy is less powerfull overall, but is also more efficient than Stormlight. Mistborn need realy small amount of metals to keep going, so can have much larger reserves of them than Radiant. Can also relativly easy cut off Radiants Investiture bateries - gemstones, while Radiant cannot do this as easly (because Mistborn can simply have really large amount of metals in stomach). Sormlight also have tendency to leak, and metals havent.

So this is it. All Mistborn have to do is outlast Radiant.

Your forgetting Plate, coins can't get through it. As for outlasting a Radiant they can last just as long as a Mistborn can, longer in fact because Blades have an infinite run time and living plate probably does as well. A Mistborn has to get through Shardplate, overcome the Radiants stormlight and then kill them, all without getting touched by a  weapon over 6 feet long, easy.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Frustration

[+Bzhydack]

10 minutes ago, Frustration said:

•  
• Those Slings where throwing head sized rocks and only caused "small cracks" and puffs of stormlight from joints

Something with weight 3 kg/ 6pd will need to be thrown with speed around 95 m/s (316 fps) or 27 km/h (17mph) to have the same kinetic energy as 0.50 BMG. Probably Parshendi shoot much faster, but 3kg is quite large projectile.

To have the same energy with coin with 9g mass (standard 2 Euro coin is 8,5g) coinshot need to shot with speed 1732 m/s (5773 fps) or 481 km/h (300 mph). Unfortunately, We dont really know energy of pushing-pulling, we know only is mass-related, but with duralumin this seems possible. So yes, coins can damage Shardplate, especialy if Mistborn will concentrate fire on one spot, what skilled Mistborn is of course capable of. Mistborn can also use something other than coins, something bigger.

And overcoming Stormlight will be easier than you think, if mistborn will be close. Dont forget about chromium.

BTW, this is interesting question. How will Shards behave touched by Leecher?

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Something with weight 3 kg/ 6pd will need to be thrown with speed around 95 m/s (316 fps) or 27 km/h (17mph) to have the same kinetic energy as 0.50 BMG. Probably Parshendi shoot much faster, but 3kg is quite large projectile.

To have the same energy with coin with 9g mass (standard 2 Euro coin is 8,5g) coinshot need to shot with speed 1732 m/s (5773 fps) or 481 km/h (300 mph). Unfortunately, We dont really know energy of pushing-pulling, we know only is mass-related, but with duralumin this seems possible. So yes, coins can damage Shardplate, especialy if Mistborn will concentrate fire on one spot, what skilled Mistborn is of course capable of. Mistborn can also use something other than coins, something bigger.

I agree that Dur-aluminum could get through but that burns through a Mistborns steel much faster and a Radiant can fix plate with Stormlight. So they  would have to touch them, before they fixed it if they want to use Chromium. And that assumes that the plate would shatter, rather than having the same reaction as the rocks did.

10 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

BTW, this is interesting question. How will Shards behave touched by Leecher?

I would assume that it would prevent them from being summoned, but that already summoned shards would be fine. But we should get confirmation on that is there a WoB on it or should I make that my question if I ever see him?

[Bigmikey357]

Dustbringers according to Brandon are used like artillery for the KR. Arty means distance.  

I wouldn't discount Elsecallers so easily.  Jasnah proves one can Soulcast at range and nothing a Mistborn can throw is breaking through a Soulcast stone wall. 

Willshapers and Stonewards can negate a Mistborn's mobility by turning the ground into quicksand.  

Even a Lightweaver/ Truthwatcher is going to be a problem for the Mistborn. If the guy has his tin on the Radiant can overwhelm his senses with an impromptu light and/or sound show.

Chromium leeching isn't instantaneous.  And if it takes longer than a second to drain that Radiant the Mistborn is dead. 

Despite their power and versatility Mistborn are rather low in Investiture per WOB. 

The problem any Mistborn will have versus a Radiant is that in any head to head the Mistborn must be perfect.  They fight an opponent that has at least 2 'I Win' buttons not including surges. If that Radiant connects with Shardblade or a plate enhanced punch, kick whatever the least thing that happens is something broken or rendered useless. A pewterarm may be able to shrug off a broken arm or leg but all the pewter in the world wouldn't stop a Shardblade deadening a limb. Death soon follows. Not to mention the Radiant has auto heal, meaning that even with Atium there are very few one shot kills a Mistborn can perform against that Radiant. The Mistborn must be perfect to overcome their disadvantages and outlast their opponents Stormlight.  

The only reliable way for a Mistborn to kill a Radiant is when their guard is down.  You let that Radiant armor up and get his fuel source and you die. And even that is going to be damnnation difficult if the guy's spren is watching. 

[Halyo_Alex]

14 hours ago, trav said:

Chromium can remove the investiture from the Radiant. 1 touch, 1 pewter punch, Mistborn wins.

 

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

Chromium can't get through plate, and even if it could, and let's say it could dismiss it, a Radiant is so much faster it's not a fair match, The Mistborns eyes would burn before they ever got a touch in.

Actually trav is slightly more correct here; Chromium allomancy can prevent a Shardblade from being summoned. So assuming that the Mistborn can at least sneak up on the Radiant at some point, they could Leech the Radiant long enough to get a solid Pewter punch to their spine and, well, the Leeching would also prevent any healing, so... Deceased Radiant.