Syl Interlude Discussion

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

Guys, Stormfather has the power but not the ability to deepen the bond on his own. Does this mean that the Nightwatcher could do this? 

I got the impression that he meant that he was the source of the power but that only Dalinor could choose to use it. If the Stormfather and Nightwatchr are equivalent then in theory they have the same power but I don't know if an unbonded Nightwatcher would have the ability alone.

[thejopen27]

What on earth would Pattern's viewpoint be like? How odd do you think he sees the world?

[Karger]

I kept getting confused then I saw the message clipped at the bottom!

I wonder how much of Syl's story was accurate.  How could a bondsmith discover the Nahal bond?  Arn't bondsmiths created by Nahal bonds?

Edited July 7, 2020 by Karger

[radiantAlThor]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

So readily admit it is in no way confirmation, but I feel Syl and Dalinar's conversation is another feather in the cap of my theory that Dalinar will have a hand in Adolin reviving Maya. His powers can literally affect the bonds between radiant and spren. I think this is foreshadowing of him restoring what was lost to those spren that were killed. Fingers crossed I am right!

Oh this is an excellent point! People have been speculating about how Adolin would be the one filling in the gaps of Maya, so I can see how a bondsmith's powers would help "bond" them.

[GoWibble]

11 minutes ago, Karger said:

I kept getting confused then I saw the message clipped at the bottom!

I wonder how much of Syl's story was accurate.  How could a bondsmith discover the Nahal bond?  Arn't bondsmiths created by Nahal bonds?

So I took this to mean that the Bondsmith Herald discovered the Nahel bond. Also, how did a Bondsmith create the Heralds at all?

[Jon]

11 minutes ago, Karger said:

I wonder how much of Syl's story was accurate.  How could a bondsmith discover the Nahal bond?  Arn't bondsmiths created by Nahal bonds?

The order of bondsmiths only existed with Nahal bonds, but the set of powers predates them. We know honorblades were around before Nahal bonds, and its implied that humans somehow had access to the surges on Ashyn, leading to its destruction.

[menacekop]

16 minutes ago, GoWibble said:

So I took this to mean that the Bondsmith Herald discovered the Nahel bond. Also, how did a Bondsmith create the Heralds at all?

I think it was Ishar who figured it out, but Honor had to make it happen.  But I am not sure if those details are true lore or in-story lore that could be off.

[Karger]

It seems Kaladin is at the "Road Way Back" or Regression stage of his Hero's journey.  This is the point where the hero has made a lot of progress.  They have entered the fantastical world, met their allies mentor, and enemies, overcome the threshold guardians and are finally something different then what they started out as.  It is generally at this moment that something blows up.  The Hero is not used to being a hero.  They are not comfortable with the role and don't fully understand it.  Because of this they generally try and go back to the person they were before.  As Moash says.  "I have to be who I was"(paraphrased).  The problem with this as our Hero will discover is that they are not the same person they were.  They have changed.  They don't quite fit into their old role.  They might try and make it work as the person that they used to be but they can't unlearn what they have learned.  Their old role does not fit anymore.  The person they used to be is gone.  It is at this point where one of two things happens.  The Hero reconciles who they were with who they are now.  They learn from it and take the next step.  They accept that they cannot return to being who they used to be and make peace with that.  In doing so they start on the final ordeal.  The purification.  They take what they learned in the supernatural and apply it in some way to the physical.  This is called the resurrection.  It is generally the most dangerous part of our heroes journey.

Spoiler

The Resurrection The Hero faces the Resurrection, his most dangerous meeting with death. This final life-and-death Ordeal shows that the Hero has maintained and can apply all that he has brought back to the Ordinary World. This Ordeal and Resurrection can represent a “cleansing” or purification that must occur now that the Hero has emerged from the land of the dead. The Hero is reborn or transformed with the attributes of his Ordinary self in addition to the lessons and insights from the characters that he has met along the road. The Resurrection may be a physical Ordeal, or final showdown between Hero and Shadow; however, the Ticking Clock of the Road Back has been set. This battle is for much more than the Hero’s life. Otherlives, or an entire world may be at stake and the Hero must now prove that he has achieved Heroic Status and willingly accept his sacrifice for the benefit of the Ordinary World. Other Allies may come to the last-minute rescue to lend assistance, but in the end the Hero must rise to the sacrifice at hand. He must deliver the blow that destroys the Death Star (Star Wars), or offer his handand accept the “magic” Elixir of love (Sleepless in Seattle).

 

[Jon]

8 minutes ago, menacekop said:

I think it was Ishar who figured it out, but Honor had to make it happen.  But I am not sure if those details are true lore or in-story lore that could be off.

Ya I think that is correct. In chapter 38 of Oathbringer the Stormfather talks about the oathpact saying "The Heralds went to Honor, and he gave them this right."

Edited July 7, 2020 by Jon

[+Q10fanatic]

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

This is the point where the hero has made a lot of progress.  They have entered the fantastical world, met their allies mentor, and enemies, overcome the threshold guardians and are finally something different then what they started out as.

Isn't this loosely Kaladin's arc in WoR? Or are we going to see a pattern of advancement/regression with him?

[Guest Father Bin]

so bondsmiths created the oath pact?!!

also Kaladin needs a hug

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

Isn't this loosely Kaladin's arc in WoR? Or are we going to see a pattern of advancement/regression with him?

To a degree maybe.  I personally would say that Kaladin's arc in WoR is his Supreme Ordeal.  He has to confront his enemies(in this case his physiological ones) and by learning the lesson they teach him is able to continue gaining his Reward(interestingly that moment is often called Seizing The Sword).

[+Q10fanatic]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

I personally would say that Kaladin's arc in WoR is his Supreme Ordeal.  He has to confront his enemies(in this case his physiological ones) and by learning the lesson they teach him is able to continue gaining his Reward(interestingly that moment is often called Seizing The Sword).

I need to read up on the Hero's Journey.

[Karger]

27 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

I need to read up on the Hero's Journey.

Here is a decent summary

Quote

https://libguides.gvsu.edu/c.php?g=948085&p=6857311

 

[Chiberty]

Something I have to keep telling myself about this chapter is that it's probably about 100K+ words into RoW (Brandon said Part 1 was 111K words in draft 1). That's a whole lot of context that we're missing.

[dgreene196]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

I kept getting confused then I saw the message clipped at the bottom!

I wonder how much of Syl's story was accurate.  How could a bondsmith discover the Nahal bond?  Arn't bondsmiths created by Nahal bonds?

Bondsmiths are now created by Nahal bonds.  Perhaps, at one time, Nahel bonds, spren, and Stormlight weren't the sole source of access to the Surges for humans?  Maybe there was something else?

Of course, we know Voidlight can be used to access Surges also.  Was this the way from Ashyn to Roshar?  Or were there other methods?

[Nathrangking]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

I kept getting confused then I saw the message clipped at the bottom!

I wonder how much of Syl's story was accurate.  How could a bondsmith discover the Nahal bond?  Arn't bondsmiths created by Nahal bonds?

Some perhaps. Bondsmith I agree is a poor way to refer to whoever it is that we are talking about. However, with Connection being a very present mechanic if someone on Ashyn could figure it out they might be thought of as a Proto-Bondsmith in much the way that perhaps Ishar was. In terminology she could be wrong, but in concept she might be on the right track.

[What's a Seawolf?]

Syl mentions that Urithiru used to be filled with a strange kind of light.  This seems to imply something other than Stormlight.  Is it possible she's speaking about Voidlight?

There are three Bondsmith spren, the Stormfather for Honor, Nightwatcher for Cultivation and the Sibling.  Is it such a crazy stretch to think the Sibling is of Odium, and being the spren that powers Urithiru, the Sibling supplies Voidlight?

 

Just because the Sibling is of Odium does not mean he is necessarily evil.  Maybe he switched sides at some point in the past, or the Radiants found a way to co-opt him for their purposes.  There also seems to have been some level of Bondsmith powers used to get humanity from Ashyn to Roshar, and if Odium had influence there it would make sense that one of his spren was on Ashyn as well.

 

[IntentAwesome]

This excerpt has left me with so many questions and so much concern for Kaladin.

If he is now a surgeon, is he still leading the Windrunners? Bridge Four?

I’m having a hard time imagining Kaladin’s overall role in the story as a surgeon  

And, of course, what happens that forces Dalinar to step in? Poor Kaladin can’t catch a break.

 

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Syl mentions that Urithiru used to be filled with a strange kind of light.  This seems to imply something other than Stormlight.  Is it possible she's speaking about Voidlight?

I don't think so.  The radiants were always very careful around that kind of thing.  I seriously doubt they would have allowed their stronghold to be built on an era that had voidlight all over it.  Cultivation light is different.

 

[Master Silver]

It could have been light from the spiritual realm that the Sibling is somehow fueled by. For instance, perhaps the Sibling is powered or fueled by the spiritual connection between the Radiants and their Spren, or if you prefer the Spren and their humans (ha), These spiritual connections are then manifested by the Sibling, who is the cognitive incarnation of the Radiant and Spren relationship. When the recreance happened it shattered those connections, and rather than experience the pain of all those bonds being broken at once again the Sibling withdrew and cut itself off from those connections.

[StormingTexan]

Great interlude and makes me want to see a lot more Spren POV. Very juicy tidbits dropped about Bondsmith. I really liked the conversation with Dalinar. Nice to see sharplate creation all but confirmed. Not sure what I think about the Kaladin situation but I am really hoping he is not fully regressing. 

 

 

 

[Elsecaller_17.5]

Everything I wanted to say has been said, but I just gotta repeat I am worried about Kaladin. I really hope this is the first interlude and he gets rolling again for the rest of the book. 

[Chiberty]

23 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Everything I wanted to say has been said, but I just gotta repeat I am worried about Kaladin. I really hope this is the first interlude and he gets rolling again for the rest of the book. 

It definitely seems like an early interlude, since the indications are that the groups haven't split up yet.

[+Q10fanatic]

This is the second interlude that goes out of its way to mention Rock's daughter, Cord. I'm going to go out on a limb and say she's important to the story, maybe even a radiant in the back 5.