Syl Interlude Discussion

[Chaos]

By signing up for Brandon's newsletter you can get an exclusive RoW interlude, and it's a Syl interlude! Let's discuss it here.

EDIT: Please note this should stay exclusive to the newsletter, so no distribution of it, but know you can simply sign up for Brandon's newsletter on his website.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Chaos

[Toaster Retribution]

Thoughts:

*Yaaay, spren POV!

*I really liked Syl in this chapter. I normally don’t, so that felt good.

*Seems like Kaladin has been assigned to healing duty in Urithiru, and regressed into depression again. 

*Stormfather is still a useless piece of moldy crem. 

*Rock gave Amarams plate to his daughter? I assume she has the Blade too then. But why is she cooking if she is a warrior?

*Syls first knight was named Relidor. He should have been called Merin for easter egg purposes.

[thejopen27]

Is Kaladin only a surgeon now? Has he rejected everything else or is he just acting as a surgeon between missions while he's in the tower? 

I'm really hoping we don't get an ark where Bridge 4 refuses to fight at all because the humans "stole the land"

Edited July 7, 2020 by thejopen27

[Asrael]

Seems we got some confirmation that Shardplate is made of (probably lower) spren....

[Chiberty]

We got the name of either Truthwatcher or Stoneward spren: peakspren.

[radiantAlThor]

Is it just me or does it feel like Syl has some form on ADD/ADHD? I wonder if that is a character trait or something which came from her experiences?

[thejopen27]

3 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

We got the name of either Truthwatcher or Stoneward spren: peakspren.

I'm guessing Peakspren are the spren of Stone, so Stonewards

[thejopen27]

Just now, radiantAlThor said:

Is it just me or does it feel like Syl has some form on ADD/ADHD? I wonder if that is a character trait or something which came from her experiences?

I wonder if it's from her extended time spent being like a windspren

[Cameron]

I'm curious to know why she's less serious than other Honorspren. Other than Rua that is

Is it because she's so young in terms of waking life? If so does that mean Rua is a 'new' Honorspren. Or is it something else.

Her curiosity reminds me strongly of the  Iri religion of 'The One' that believes god split themselves into different bits to experience the world. IIRC the same concept has appeared in other cosmere religions too. I've always suspected that that belief is close to the real story of Adonalsium. Could it be that Syl isn't just a splinter of Honor? Or that's she's a greater splinter in some way?

[psc92]

This interlude supports the theory that shardplate isn't just Lesser spren, but it's formed by a bond between the Radiant Spren and the Lesser spren, so I'm fully on that bandwagon now.

[anna]

30 minutes ago, Asrael said:

Seems we got some confirmation that Shardplate is made of (probably lower) spren....

I noticed that, too. I'm a little surprised Brandon would include a big hint like that in a sample chapter, unless maybe it's revealed early on in the book?

I hope Syl will be okay if she tries to dig up her "dark brain" after this interlude. I could see that backfiring on her

[Ciridae]

That was a really fun chapter, I love her talk with Dalinar at the end. Interesting what she said about Bondsmiths, a Bondsmith made the Heralds immortal? And a Bondsmith bound other surges and brought people to Roshar, presumably from Ashyn. That’s incredibly cool. So where did people get Bondsmith powers from before there were Honorblades and before they could bond one of the Siblings? Also, the implication that Dalinar can increase the strength of a Nahel bond. What would that mean for the human and spren? We know that the bond can be broken before the fifth ideal is spoken, could this do the same? Or would it skip ideals? 

[Scriptorian]

To me, this read very strongly as Syl having some form of attention-deficit disorder, or least a spren equivalent, as radiantAlThor suggests. However, in addition there were several beats that struck me as also sounding indicative of autism-spectrum disorders. Namley:

1. Seeing a distinction between her "responsible brain" and her "child brain". I just happened to have read Temple Gradin's "The Autistic Brain" recently, where she recounts some individuals with ASD describing a difference between their "acting selves" and "thinking selves". The resemblance is so uncanny, I would not be surprised if Brandon is deliberately evoking the same idea.
2. Her aversion to "diversity of loudness"  is indicative of sensory difficulties associated with Autism. (I have the exact same problem, loud rooms full of conversation make me very neurotic, but I find thunderstorms soothing. So maybe I'm projecting?)

Granted, that second bit also reads strongly of attention-deficit symptoms, but if you know much about either disorder, you know that there's plenty of overlap and comorbidity.

My initial thought was also that Syl's symptoms (for lack of a better term) was the result of her past trauma. But it's also possible that a spren's neurology-analog is just as capable of getting mis-wired as a human's. Since mental-health has metaphysical ramifications in the Cosmere, there's probably some of both going on.

I also like how Kaladin's depression is being addressed more explicitly. Sufficeth to say, I found this interlude absolutely delightful.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Scriptorian

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

Great stuff!

Also it's nice to know that TOR is going to pre-releasing chapters like they did in the run-up to Oathbringer's release.

I think the part where Syl goes into the Highstorm to talk to the Stormfather heavily implies that Honor's perpendicularity is where the Stormfather is, and that this also goes a long towards explaining Dalinar's act of combining the 3 realms at the end of OB.

Quote

Then blackness took her. A fuller blackness than the absence of light. It was the split moment that her father could create. Time was a funny thing. It was always flowing along in the background like a river, but bring too much power to bear, and it warped. It slowed; it wanted to pause and take a look. Anytime too much power—too much Investiture, too much self—congregated, realms became porous and time behaved oddly.

The realms became porous part is especially interesting.

Edited July 7, 2020 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[thejopen27]

56 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

That was a really fun chapter, I love her talk with Dalinar at the end. Interesting what she said about Bondsmiths, a Bondsmith made the Heralds immortal? And a Bondsmith bound other surges and brought people to Roshar, presumably from Ashyn. That’s incredibly cool. So where did people get Bondsmith powers from before there were Honorblades and before they could bond one of the Siblings? Also, the implication that Dalinar can increase the strength of a Nahel bond. What would that mean for the human and spren? We know that the bond can be broken before the fifth ideal is spoken, could this do the same? Or would it skip ideals? 

The part with Dalinar was cut off in mine... ):

I fixed it, thanks for the advice

Edited July 7, 2020 by thejopen27

[Pagerunner]

Quite a few good bits from this interlude.

Quote

Sylphrena felt the energy of the approaching highstorm like one might hear the sound of a distant musician walking ever closer. Calling out with friendly music.

...

That music though. The storm. She could hardly contain herself. It was coming!

...

The storm was a single voice. A majestic, powerful voice singing a song with its own harmonies. In here she could simply enjoy the song and relax, renewed.

I wonder if Syl is hearing the conflux of the Rhythms that occurs in a highstorm?

Quote

It was pretty. Maybe Syl should have hated it, as she did Shardblades, but she didn’t. It was kind of a corpse—well, lots of corpses—but not as offensive. The difference, she supposed, was attitude. She could sense contentment, not pain, from the Plate.

This appears to be a pretty clear confirmation that Shardplate is comprised of lesser spren. But it's something intentional, something that happens as a normal process of creating Shardblades, and thus wasn't "corrupted" or made terrible by the Recreance.

Quote

Sometimes Syl felt like she had two brains. One was the responsible brain; it had driven her to defy the other honorspren and her father in seeking out Kaladin and forming a Radiant bond. This was the brain that she wanted to control her. It cared about important things: people, the fate of the world, figuring out what it truly meant to be of Honor.

She had a different brain too. The brain that was fascinated by the world—the brain that acted like it belonged to a small child. A loud noise? Better go see what caused it! Music on the horizon? Dart back and forth, eager with anticipation! A strange cremling on the wall? Mimic its shape and crawl along to see what it feels like!

...

He has two brains too, she thought. A light brain and a dark brain. She wished she could understand him. He needed help. Maybe this new duty would be all he needed. She so profoundly hoped that it would. But she worried it wouldn’t be enough.

Seems like Syl has some mental illness, as well, which has some interesting ramifications. This doesn't look like she's sharing Kaladin's situation. But, since mental illnesses have physiological components (which is why they can be treated with medication), how does this occur for a being who does not have a physiology?

Quote

The tower was dead. She barely remembered the place from before, when she’d bonded her old wonderful knight. He’d spent most of his life traveling to little villages, using her as a Shardblade to cut cisterns or aqueducts for the people. She remembered coming to Urithiru with him once...and the tower had been bright with lights... A strange kind of light...

Lights, that aren't Stormlight? Could this be the mystery Third Light (not Voidlight or Stormlight)? Also, I think dead vs alive grants some more credence to the idea that the Sibling is Urithiru -

Quote

She needed to help Kaladin. Perhaps he would be satisfied as a surgeon, and it would be good for him to not have to kill anymore.

...

She took a step toward Dalinar. “Thank you for what you did. In forcing him to change. He was stuck, doing what he felt he had to, but getting darker all the time.”

Looks like Kaladin has a meltdown and gives up the life of a soldier. (But not that of a Radiant, since Syl's here.) I wonder what the impetus is. We know Kaladin's fighting in Hearthstone at the beginning of the book, from other excerpts. Does Lirin bite it? And Kaladin isn't enough of a surgeon to help him? So now Kaladin gives up his spear to focus on protecting people through healing them?

But then again, this seems like something Dalinar did to him. Maybe Dalinar stripped him of his Surges, since they weren't healthy for him?

Either way, it seems like we're going to see some serious regression on Kaladin's part, the same way we saw it with Shallan in Oathbringer. I was not a fan of it then; I hope it goes better this time around.

Quote

Honorspren—all of the intelligent spren—were something new to Roshar. Well, new as in ten-thousand-years-old new. So...newer.

How had the first honorspren—or cultivationspren, or inkspren, or peakspren, or any of the other intelligent ones—been created? Had they been shaped from raw Investiture by Honor himself? Had they grown out of these, their cousins? She felt so much kinship with them, though they were clearly different. Not as smart. Could she help them become smart?

...

“What do you know of my powers?” Dalinar asked her.

“Your abilities are what made the original Oathpact,” she said. “And they existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded. A Bondsmith connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world. A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better. You Connect things, Dalinar. Realms. Ideas. People.”

Ah, the good lore dumps.

Peakspren - I suspect these are the Stoneward spren. Mountain peaks, which are in fact quite rocky, will be a good name for "cracked stone" spren. The origin of intelligent spren is another interesting question; I think, with the genders they have, that they must have all come about from interactions with humans, which generally fits with the timeline.

Dalinar's powers. The "Bondsmith" Syl is referring to has to be Ishar, I think. He's got some titles that match up pretty well - Binder of Gods, I believe, and Architect (or was it Founder?) of the Oathpact. (Not sure why "connected" to Braize isn't capitalized. But this seems like the same issue of Connection that's being discussed with Gavilar in the prologue.) And the Radiants being called "Ishar's Knights" fits with binding other Surges and creating/discovering the Nahel bond.

I think the current role of Bondsmith has been formalized into the Surgebinder/Knight Radiant system, but the raw power of what a Bondsmith (and what Dalinar) can accomplish is something older and greater than Surgebinding. Which fits this description, and is something I've talked about in my thread on the Surges: that Dalinar has manipulated base Realmatics, on a more magical fundamental level than other magical applications from Radiants/Mistborn/Elantrians/what have you. He's something that can rewrite the code, something much more like Rashek holding the Well of Ascension in Mistborn. (And, well, didn't we explicitly hear that Dalinar Ascended at the end of OB?) And, specifically a "Bondsmith," aside from being a powerful manipulator of Realmatics, is now on Roshar also a Radiant.

[Cameron]

10 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

That was a really fun chapter, I love her talk with Dalinar at the end. Interesting what she said about Bondsmiths, a Bondsmith made the Heralds immortal? And a Bondsmith bound other surges and brought people to Roshar, presumably from Ashyn. That’s incredibly cool. So where did people get Bondsmith powers from before there were Honorblades and before they could bond one of the Siblings? Also, the implication that Dalinar can increase the strength of a Nahel bond. What would that mean for the human and spren? We know that the bond can be broken before the fifth ideal is spoken, could this do the same? Or would it skip ideals? 

Oh mine cut off just as she talked to the Stormfather. I better go finish it.

[Clarity-Art]

This was an absolute delight to read! We haven't spent a lot of time reading chapters or interludes from Sylphrena's perspective, and I'm especially excited to see where Brandon takes her character arc after this chapter. There were so many tidbits here that piqued my curiosity, but here are a few moments that really piqued my curiosity and got me thinking about what Rhythm of War truly entails. 

1. The fact that Kaladin has apparently been sleeping better and has new duties of some sort

Hooray for Kaladin sleeping better, but also not hooray for the fact that he seems more emotionally perturbed. Syl says that he has "two brains" like she does, which are his "light brain" and "dark brain", and observes that he'll continue to have the dark brain if he continues on his current path. We saw that Kaladin was backsliding and struggling near the end of the previous book, so will he keep on spiraling downwards? Hmmm. 

2. Syl's conversation with the Stormfather 

According to the conversation, Syl believes that Kaladin will be Dalinar's champion, and thus, she needs to be the best spren that she can in aiding him with the battle to come. I'm curious as to how she arrived at this conclusion, considering that Kaladin seemed to be in dubious shape after the events of Oathbringer. 

3. Syl's conversation with Dalinar

I think it's adorable that Dalinar addresses her as Brightness Sylphrena. She thanks Dalinar for something that he did in forcing Kaladin "to change", which calls back to her previous musings about his new duties. At this point, I'm fairly sure that the "change" involves Kaladin taking up more missions involving field medicine or other forms of aid. When and how did Dalinar decide to facilitate this change? I feel like he hasn't taken Kaladin's depression into consideration, as far as I know, so what exactly prompted him to realize something was amiss? Also, her talk with Dalinar about him Connecting things together seemed to foreshadow an even greater act of Connection in the future, one on an even grander scale than him uniting the Realms during the confrontation with Odium.

I haven't thought a whole bunch about the role that Syl's going to play in Rhythm of War, so this got my wheels turning quite a lot! Super fascinating. 

[menacekop]

Quote

She remembered coming to Urithiru with him once...and the tower had been bright with lights... A strange kind of light...

This combined with the way they keep referring to Urithiru as being "dead and alive" or "sleeping or awake" gives weight to the city itself being the 3rd sibling and perhaps offering a different kind of light.  Why else would Syl call it a "strange kind of light" suggesting it wasn't regular stormlight. 

Quote

A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world. A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better. You Connect things, Dalinar. Realms. Ideas. People.

I am also very curious to see what Dalinar can do with his Connection powers.  This interlude seems to suggest that he can bond surges to people, maybe he can create a super radiant, a stormlight equivalent of a mistborn, someone who has access to all the surges at once. 

[Karger]

So we are going with the lessor spren theory.  I suppose that is cool.  It seems odd that Brandon would make it so obvious so early.  Kaladin really needs to get his mojo back. 

[menacekop]

Quote

The difference, she supposed, was attitude. She could sense contentment, not pain, from the Plate.

I thought this was quite interesting.  My read into it, thinking of Connection and Identity, is that plate being made of a lesser spren is quite happy being plate; however, higher spren having more complex emotions and full sentience feel pain at the prospect of only being thought of as a tool for killing.  So their own identity is at odds with what the human is trying to project onto them and it brings them pain.

Edited July 7, 2020 by menacekop

[Use the Falchion]

1 hour ago, radiantAlThor said:

Is it just me or does it feel like Syl has some form on ADD/ADHD? I wonder if that is a character trait or something which came from her experiences?

That's how I saw it too, although @Scriptorianmade some great points.

Overall this was FASCINATING! It was awesome to get inside of Syl's head and now have confirmation that she's an Interlude character, not a main one like some were guessing. Seeing Kaladin's depression addressed head-on was both heartwarming and eyerolling. It felt a little like an afternoon special sort of thing, but at the same time, these situations NEED to be addressed head on, and I'm happy they did so. It was also well done. I'm not mad at this, just making points and drawing on feelings. 

Syl wanting to deepen her bond with Kaladin was probably the most interesting aspect for me. What would that even look like? Is it her becoming more human? Or would it be like what the Nightwatcher did to Lift, and having a Bondsmith pull Kaladin deeper into the Cognitive Realm? Or would it be like granting Kaladin a gemheart that Syl can go inside of, turning them into Singers of sorts? Oh the possibilities are so exciting!

We get more or Rock's daughter. This is the second interlude with her in it, which makes me think she's going to play a larger role in the future that we're giving her credit for...or maybe we're just meeting new characters. 

In terms of where this Interlude takes place, I'd bet it's either after Part 1 or Part 2. I'd like to place it near the Lift interlude due to Rock's daughter Cord being present again, Sanderson's process on the revisions, and Kaladin and Dalinar being in the same spot, but I'm not so sure. We have no idea when Lift's Interlude takes place, and Sanderson was still working on Draft 2 & 3 in February when he read part of it.

Speaking of Kaladin, this does make me wonder if he's not a Group 3 character, and we actually DON'T get a lot from him or Dalinar this book in an interesting change of pace. My friend just finished reading The Dragon Reborn (Wheel of Time Book 3) this morning, and the titular character has one chapter from his viewpoint in this book. Sure, we see him through dreams, memories, actions, and other means, but we don't spend a lot of time with him. Maybe Kaladin will be treated the same way? ...yeah, I doubt it too, but it's possible. 

[+Q10fanatic]

50 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

The part with Dalinar was cut off in mine... ):

Click the "Expand email" option. Mine was initially cut off in Gmail too.

[Honorless]

Welp, Shardplate made of minor spren confirmed

Quote

It was pretty. Maybe Syl should have hated it, as she did Shardblades, but she didn’t. It was kind of a corpse—well, lots of corpses—but not as offensive. The difference, she supposed, was attitude. She could sense contentment, not pain, from the Plate.

 

[+Q10fanatic]

Guys, Stormfather has the power but not the ability to deepen the bond on his own. Does this mean that the Nightwatcher could do this?