1stBondsmith

Most Deadly Order of Knight

34 posts in this topic

I think deadliest is highly situational it would depend on say - is it 1vs1 radiant vs radiant(fused)? radiant vs army? multiple radiants vs multiple radiants? Do they have shardplates? How much stormlight do their abilities cost? Is it limited stormlight situation or are they fighting in a storm or something similar? Are they fighting in an open field or indoors? 

Assuming 1vs1 full shardplate radiants in an open field I think windrunners would be strongest - their mobility would be too ridiculous, if they can manipulate winds - not only giving them ridiculous boost to their mobility beyond gravitational pulls, but it would also mess up their enemies. Pretty sure you need touch for division to work, and in that case it would not be much of an advantage over shardblade (shorter reach and would probably cost ridiculous amount of stormlight to go through shardplates). Same for elsecallers - I doubt transformation would have direct effect on radiants or shardplates. Also lashing could be used to throw rocks/blades etc exploiting blindspots. 

In a limited space, assuming they are equally skilled with weapons - my bet would be on.. truthwatchers or lightweavers - illusions to blind enemy, showing multiple attacks/attackers at once, always guessing which one is real, it would be so hard to block/parry consistantly. Truthwatchers have insane regeneration if they do get hit or lightweavers manipulating enviroment with transformation, they would be insane duelists.

Against an army? Probably whoever has best aoe(maybe cheapest stormlight wise) - so stonewards or guys with division, soulcasting seems better for single objects and my impression that it's fairly "expensive".

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I thought by saying Windrunner I’d be committing the standard cliche. But since no one’s advocating for that...

 

Windrunner 100%. Skybreakers are a close 2nd. Flight literally renders every other order out-maneuvered... No one can do anything to touch you unless it’s a soul caster, and I doubt Jasnah would beat Kaladin in a fight. Her soul casting is gnarly but I think Kaladin would outrun it. Her killing flying fused is not a good argument I think, as Kaladin can take on like 8 at a time...

Windrunner vs Skybreaker could go either way, but 60/40 in favor of windrunner. I’d say Windrunner has the advantage via standoff distance and launching objects. Up close a Skybreaker could end it instantly... but so could the Windrunner via launching the Skybreaker. 

Standoff and flight = an aircraft with projectile weapons. No one else can hang.

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7 hours ago, joesleepsalot said:

I thought by saying Windrunner I’d be committing the standard cliche. But since no one’s advocating for that...

 

Windrunner 100%. Skybreakers are a close 2nd. Flight literally renders every other order out-maneuvered... No one can do anything to touch you unless it’s a soul caster, and I doubt Jasnah would beat Kaladin in a fight. Her soul casting is gnarly but I think Kaladin would outrun it. Her killing flying fused is not a good argument I think, as Kaladin can take on like 8 at a time...

Windrunner vs Skybreaker could go either way, but 60/40 in favor of windrunner. I’d say Windrunner has the advantage via standoff distance and launching objects. Up close a Skybreaker could end it instantly... but so could the Windrunner via launching the Skybreaker. 

Standoff and flight = an aircraft with projectile weapons. No one else can hang.

Skybreaker trumps Windrunner which is why no one is talking about it. A skybreaker can do anything a Windrunner can except Sticking stuff, while also using Division.

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1 hour ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

Skybreaker trumps Windrunner which is why no one is talking about it. A skybreaker can do anything a Windrunner can except Sticking stuff, while also using Division.

Couple times when Kaladin fights, wind gets mentioned in terms of making him more agile, Syl refers to herself as a "graceful" weapon. There is a scene where Kaladin saves group of people by manipulating wind, which would not be possible with Gravitation. If adhesion allows manipulating pressure, making him more mobile, more agile, faster etc it gives a lot over skybreakers. Skybreakers would still need to touch to use Division which would be hard given how long shardblades can be and how mobile Windrunners can be. Also shardplates are resistant to magic.

To quote Mike Tyson: my trainer Customato we always put a great deal of emphasis on our speed and combinations. He always told me "speed kills, speed is what kills, the speed kills".

Edited by Tadas
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2 hours ago, Tadas said:

Skybreakers would still need to touch to use Division

We dont know this for sure. In fact, we thought touching is needet for Transformation, but Jasnah proove otherwise. We also have WoB that any Radiant soulcaster will be able to do that. In fact, i think using Division from the distance should be possible, otherwise Dustbringers will not be able to work as Artilery, what we know they did.

Its many, many ways to use Division as advantage. Throw rokcs with Grawitation and make them explode. Create dust around opponent and ignite it, efectivly blind him. Lightning is also possibility.

In 1v1 and small skirmishes, Windrunner will be one of the deadliest, but on larger scale, his destructive power isnt on the same level as other orders. For Example, Ellescaller or Lightweaver with enough knowledge will be able to create Nuke.

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All the wind runner has to do is launch a handful of rocks at a Skybreaker at bullet speed, the Skybreaker isn’t turning them all to dust and/or recovering from head wounds before the wind runner nails him with a shard blade. 
 

Skybreaker vs a Windrunner is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Probably not an accident that Jezrien was a windrunner/the “head honcho”

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2 minutes ago, joesleepsalot said:

All the wind runner has to do is launch a handful of rocks at a Skybreaker at bullet speed, the Skybreaker isn’t turning them all to dust and/or recovering from head wounds before the wind runner nails him with a shard blade.

But Skybreaker can do the same. This is Gravitation Surge, they both have it. Difference is, skybreaker can make those rocks explode, if he wants to. So during this shotout Skybreaker will have better chances, becouse

1. Can destroy upcomming fire. Windruuner have to have something to atract projectiles with, like shield.

2. Can attack larger areas.

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I'd say the Skybreakers are the most dangerous, especially on a strategic scale. Holding Gravitation lets them move very quickly and attack in ways that are difficult to block, while Division lets them destroy almost anything they can get close enough to touch.

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Regarding the question of whether a division user requires touch, i think the descriptions of the dustbringers either outright answers it or gives me a pretty good indication:

 

"In the Knights Radiant, they tend to act as the equivalent of artillery in a modern army. "

 

Every definition i have found regarding artillery both in the classical as well as modern sense involves siege weaponry flinging explosives long range. Nothing about abrasion speaks to me about enabling division to fly at a distance, so that causes me to reason that division as the surge itself can be used at range. Just like soulcasting (WoB confirm jasnahs ranged soulcasting is the result of her order just being really good at it and theoretically a lightweaver can learn to do the same thing with enough practice)

 

so TLDR

dustbringers are literally described as modern artillery. Modern artillery blows things up from afar. I think dustbringers blow things up from afar. Abrasion doesn't seem to affect that. So skybreakers should also be able to blow things up from afar

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