Emerald_Mage

The Unmade - Godspren Connection

8 posts in this topic

Something that has been bothering me for a while, and some other's I've seen on the shard, is the number of Bondsmiths. Two would align well, one for Honor and one for Cultivation, or ten at one for each order. Basically, three completely throws out the symmetry of numbers that is really important on Roshar.

My question is, what if there used to be more Godspren before the KR came into existence?

We know from a WoB that a lot of the spren existed before the shattering, and thus before Honor and Cultivation came to Roshar. We also know that the unmade existed before being unmade and reforged with Odium's investiture.

My theory is that when Adonnalsium made Roshar he made ten "Godspren". Sometime after the shattering, Honor and cultivation came and either created a Godspren (Possibly the case with the Nightwatcher) or upgraded a lesser spren into a Godspren (As we know from Oathbringer happened with the Stormfather.) For a time there were 10-12 Godspren, depending on the order of events in the timeline. This would be the original 10 for Adonolsium, then one each for Honor and Cultivation.

Then Odium comes in and unmakes 9 of them. (Following the prevailing theory, the Sibling would be the only one of the original 10 to escape.) The unmaking process would likely destroy most of the spren's ability to think while odium's investiture would put the focus on emotion that we see from the Midnight Mother, etc.

 

So What do y'all think? Feel free to completely obliterate this theory if it's wrong.

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal theory on this is quite similar: there were 10 godspren (or at the very least some large splinters, probably of Honor and Cultivation) on Ashyn and two godspren corresponding to Shards on Roshar. The destruction of Ashyn and Odium corrupting the Unmade led to the current situation

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Unmade probably were unique spren before

But I see no problem with there being 3 Godspren for 2 Shards. One for each plus one that's a mix

Just like the 3 Metallic Arts

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, R J said:

But I see no problem with there being 3 Godspren for 2 Shards. One for each plus one that's a mix

Just like the 3 Metallic Arts

I have considered that, but it just doesn't jive with me. The reason it worked for me in Mistborn because Preservation and Ruin couldn't do what they wanted on their own. In this case, though the asymmetry seems to be more problematic. (Mostly because so much on Roshar is based around symmetry.)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems logical, but this WOB lists the Unmade and godspren on two different power levels:

Quote

Questioner

You've previously said that Nightblood is the most powerful non-Shardic being in the Cosmere. Is he more powerful than the Unmade or Stormfather in terms of raw Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Raw Investiture? Here's the thing, when you say powerful, it can mean lots of different things. More raw Investiture than the Stormfather... probably not. Than the Unmade, probably. I would have to look, I don't have the numbers on this. But the Stormfather is very restricted in what he can do.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)  

Also, the Surge interaction kinda contradicts the 1+1 symmetric principle, since they have Resonances, which is a third power, in a way. The Sibling could maybe be understood as the Resonance of Honor and Cultivation, if you want to put it that way ... So it's not more asymmetric than that.

I personally still believe that it's a mix. It would fit the theme of the two Shards being lovers ... I like the thought that they wanted one of the godspren to be their child together. In that case, it would also make sense that it's called the "Sibling", since it's the sibling to both the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher to equal measures. If it wasn't a mix of both, it wouldn't be more of a sibling than the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather are to each other, so the name wouldn't really say anything. Those are my two cents, anyway.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of days ago I would have been onboard with this theory, been thinking of something else though.

We know that Taln was the herald that shouldn't have been. What if originaly the other 9 were heralds of Odium, he made 9 splinters which they bonded. They broke or "unmade" these bonds to seek Honor. In one of Jezriens ramblings to Dalinar he talks about how it was their own fault. "We attracted them, befriended them, took them out to dance and courted them. It is our fault." He says this just after asking which unmade is in Dalinars head.

Edited by Cammac
Spelling
5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My favorite theory on this:

There were originally 16 Godspren: the Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, the Sibling, Cruciarch, the nine Unmade, and three others we haven't met yet.

Depending on what happened to the missing three, this would also explain why trying to increase the number of Bondsmiths would be considered seditious: it's not that one couldn't theoretically bond a broken spren (Cruciarch, or presumably one of the missing three) or one of the Unmade, but it definitely wouldn't be good for the potential Bondsmith's outlook or sanity.

(I'm also partial to my personal theory that Nightblood's origin accounts for one of the missing Godspren/Unmade; but even I have to admit that the theory, no matter how elegant, is unfortunately probably incorrect.  Though if I were writing SA, that would totally be the explanation I went with.)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, galendo said:

 

(I'm also partial to my personal theory that Nightblood's origin accounts for one of the missing Godspren/Unmade; but even I have to admit that the theory, no matter how elegant, is unfortunately probably incorrect.  Though if I were writing SA, that would totally be the explanation I went with.)

I think that Nightblood was made using Larkin bones. 

Warbreaker spoilers:

Spoiler

Sure I remember in warbreaker it was mentioned shashara used tricks like encasing bones in steel to make her creations. Larkin bones would make sense as it's the only creature we know of that consumes investiture.

 

Edited by Cammac
Spoilers
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.