32 posts in this topic

52 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I think he was just a conqueror who wanted to first restore a united Alethkar, then achieve the goals of the Sons of Honor to restore a Theocracy with himself as the god-emperor and conquer as much of the world as he could behind that united banner of all Vorin nations.  If he could defeat the forces of evil during a desolation, even better for his legitimacy.  I think he felt tying in the Vorin religion to his rule and as the source of his legitimacy would secure his dynasty long term, unlike other conquerors whose empires generally died with them.

This I see as plausible. 

53 minutes ago, agrabes said:

You're right, we don't see him interact with them.  But, we are told that they all meet

Gavilar met with several people.  We were never told that he met with them all at the same time.  In fact he met with Eshonai privately and given that he was engaging in a conspiracy I do not think it would have been smart of him to let everyone in on everything.  Amaram was useful but also pretty foolish.  Gavilar was a master of men.  I do not think that he would have deluded himself when it comes to taking the measure of his subordinates.

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So we have a WOB that Gavilar’s personality change was JUST due to the visions? Or is his being a Kandra replacement a live possibility? If he were Kandra when he was killed, that opens up a lot of answers, both on how he seems to have known so much realmatically compared to post-visions with help of ardents to interpret-Dalinar, and with respect to what his motives and plans might have been.

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On 6/18/2020 at 5:23 PM, Cammac said:

[...] at the minute it looks like there were at least 5 heralds in Kohlinar that night.

Wait, 5?! I've apparently missed some things, which 5?

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28 minutes ago, beewall said:

Wait, 5?! I've apparently missed some things, which 5?

I'm about to go into an exam so I'll try and dig out quotes later but.
You've got Nale and Kalak(I think) talking to Elhokar and Gavilar.
Jezrian was at the beggars feast. (Dalinar's perspective)
There's references to Shallash doing shallash things(destroyed art of her) so assumably she's there.(Dalinar's perspective)
There's also theories I've heard that one of the heralds was the assassin Liss that Jasnah talked to.(Jasnah perspective)

My memories hazy tho so I'll need to come back and double check stuff.

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36 minutes ago, Harkain said:

I'm about to go into an exam so I'll try and dig out quotes later but.
You've got Nale and Kalak(I think) talking to Elhokar and Gavilar.
Jezrian was at the beggars feast. (Dalinar's perspective)
There's references to Shallash doing shallash things(destroyed art of her) so assumably she's there.(Dalinar's perspective)
There's also theories I've heard that one of the heralds was the assassin Liss that Jasnah talked to.(Jasnah perspective)

My memories hazy tho so I'll need to come back and double check stuff.

Ahhhhh ok, thanks. I knew Nale and the person assumed to be Kalak, and knew Jezrien was probably there as the beggar, but I hadn't seen that about Shalash (but rereading the tWoK prologue, I do see the mention of Shalash's statue being destroyed), and hadn't heard the theories about Liss (from what I can find on the Shard and Reddit, it looks like this does have some evidence but not conclusive?).

Edited by beewall
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11 minutes ago, beewall said:

Ahhhhh ok, thanks. I knew Nale and the person assumed to be Kalak, and knew Jezrien was probably there as the beggar, but I hadn't seen that about Shalash (but rereading the tWoK prologue, I do see the mention of Shalash's statue being destroyed), and hadn't heard the theories about Liss (from what I can find on the Shard and Reddit, it looks like this does have some evidence but not conclusive?).

Not conclusive put it does seem very likely. I think that we're going to discover all of them, excluding Taln, in Kohlinar that night.

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49 minutes ago, Cammac said:

Not conclusive put it does seem very likely. I think that we're going to discover all of them, excluding Taln, in Kohlinar that night.

After seeing all the ones you said, I wouldn't be surprised lol. Battar and/or Pailiah are apparently ardents in Kharbranth (Taravangian suspects one of his ardents, Dova, of being Battar), so we should probably keep an eye out for elderly ardents in the next couple prologues... (although Sanderson's later couple answers about Pailiah have been kinda vague and avoiding-the-answer, and my guess is that he may have meant Battar in the original WoB, rather than Pailiah, because two of the Heralds being ardents in Kharbranth seems kinda odd, especially with Sanderson's emphasis on only one being there - that, or Taravangian is wrong about Dova being Battar).

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