Fleet thoughts?

[Hen]

Okay, so we have a pretty good idea that The Girl Who Looked Up is going to be important to some degree, but what about Fleet?

These are the WoB's we have on it. (I might have missed one, but these are the two that seemed important.)

Quote

Questioner

Is Fleet going to make a come back?

Brandon Sanderson

Fleet is probably going to remain in lore.

Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018)

Quote

zandi (paraphrased)

Is the Fleet story indicative of future events/ending of SA?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Hoid is telling Kaladin things he needs to know. But Hoid's knowledge of the future doesn't extend that far... [or something like that]. 

Shadows of Self Boston signing (Oct. 14, 2015)

So we know from these that 1. Fleet is likely just a legend and 2.Fleet is foreshadowing something. 

Its also worth note that Hoid mentions fleet is a common story, though Kaladin had never herd it (Maybe a story from another world? though I don't think this is likely) 

The question then becomes, what is Fleet foreshadowing, and has it already been covered in WoR/Oathbringer or is it for RoW and beyond? The obvious answer is that Fleet was to give strength to Kal to save Elhokar in WoR. Personally I believe that its more then that. There's always another secret. Kaladin, in Oathbringer, failed to swear the 4th Ideal. Fleets story has to do with Kal finding the courage to keep running. We know that Rhythm of War has one of Brandons favorite stormlight scenes, and Im hoping that the two are going to be connected.

Thoughts?

[Gears]

The obvious interpretation is that someone will challenge someone else and will die stopping that someone else from doing something. Hopefully it's more complex than that, but who knows?

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Hentient said:

Okay, so we have a pretty good idea that The Girl Who Looked Up is going to be important to some degree

I think the stories are going to remain like the afterlife.  They could be allegorical or real and we won't know.  Also

3 hours ago, Hentient said:

Its also worth note that Hoid mentions fleet is a common story, though Kaladin had never herd it (Maybe a story from another world? though I don't think this is likely) 

The deeper themes of Fleet's story are things that everyone knows.  I am not sure that Hoid means that everyone actually knows about Fleet.  As to what Kaladin needs to learn.  He has not got to the end of the story.  Fleet wins by loosing.  When Kaladin looses he locks up.  Maybe a lesson is there?  It is possible to make things better even if they are also getting worse.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Karger

[Requiem17]

Okay this is real tinfoil but here goes...

Initially I thought this was Kaladin's future, but Brandon says Hoid can't see that far. 

Wandersail appears to be about Honor being dead. Girl Who Looked Up appears to be about humans leaving Shinovar (and other cool theories), but essentially it's a historical story. 

Hoid says in WOK and WOR that they're old stories but he doesn't interpret them for people. Our characters relate them to themselves and the current book etc but Hoid also says that stories repeat themselves.

So if Fleet is some historical story, it sounds like a story of someone who became a Cognitive Shadow. There's a whole thread here on a theory that Nohadon became one, and this is why he was able to talk to Dalinar despite the Stormfather fleeing him. Could Fleet be a story about Nohadon?

Alright took my tinfoil hat off, tear this to pieces.

[Frustration]

Kal is going to make it to book 9 maybe 10 and realize he can't beat Odium.

[Rushu42]

I've always thought that Fleet was intended to be a lesson about accepting your failure, which is certainly something that Kaladin needs. I mean, the premise of the story is that Fleet tries to do something impossible, and failed, but the important part is that he tried. This obviously has implications for Kaladin's story, what with his failure to swear the 4th ideal, as well as the others things that he blames himself for. It's probably something that he'll think back to at some point, but I wouldn't guess that it foreshadows any specific event. 

 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Requiem17 said:

 

Hoid says in WOK and WOR that they're old stories but he doesn't interpret them for people. Our characters relate them to themselves and the current book etc but Hoid also says that stories repeat themselves.

Wandersail is an old story but Hoid never told Fleet's story before.

[Requiem17]

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

Wandersail is an old story but Hoid never told Fleet's story before.

Agreed, which is why I initially thought Hoid was helping Kaladin see his future somehow. Brandon's WOB and this line from Hoid make it plausible to me that it's also tangentially historical. To me it sounds like he'd based it on something he knew, but Kaladin made it new. 

Quote

“But you already knew it.”

“I know most stories, but I’d never sung this one before.”

 

[PiedPiper]

What if Fleet's story was about Gavilar? Hear me out:

1) It's a very well-known story, and Wit is surprised that Kaladin hadn't heard it -- and we all know that Wit isn't always literal.

2) Wit doesn't see far into the future, but he almost definitely would know what's going on behind the scenes in the past. Remember, he wasn't Wit then yet, so he could been anyone at the feast.

3) How Fleet's story matches Gavilar's:

Gavilar has been trying to bring about the Everstorm -- probably a great act of hubris, seeing as the Voidbringers are ancient beings -- and was killed for trying. This seems similar to how Fleet tried to race the highstorm and died before he could reach the end.

However, his goal was achieved even after death by the people working in his name -- most notably the Sons of Honor. However, it's also important to remember that Gavilar's (and his organization's) ultimate goal was to bring back the Knights Radiant, who would theoretically return if the Voidbringers attacked. Thus, the argument could be made that Kaladin -- by saying the Oaths both as a soldier in Gavilar's (former) army and also right as he was needed to protect Gavilar's brother and nephew against the Voidbringers -- also played a role in completing Gavilar's vision Jasnah could also fit this role, as becoming an elsecaller helped in figuring out why her father died. (Ironically, Jasnah was the reason.) This could be seen as parallel with Fleet's ghost getting up and completing the race.

Maybe I'm right, maybe this is a huge stretch. Let me know what your opinions are.

[Cammac]

What if it's another version of the girl who looked up about how the desolations started. Bare with me on this wildly speculative theory with no basis at all.

Fleet could refer to the heralds, they left Shinovar to go far east with odium in their ear. They found powerful weapons belonging to the singers (dawnshards) and stole them. They realise what Odium wants, pre shattering weapons and to start a war to draw honor and cultivation out into the open. Odium then corrupts the singers offering revenge.

The storm is the voidbringers and odium chasing them. They need to outrun it and get back to Shinovar, possibly crossing the sea to Amia. Along the way they die and become cognitive shadows with Honors help, which allows them to escape and hide the dawnshards.

I know its wild and makes no sense, but i had to get it out or I wouldn't sleep tonight.

[Hen]

1 hour ago, PiedPeterPiper said:

What if Fleet's story was about Gavilar? Hear me out:

it definitely fits. It would give kal a chance to understand why Gavilar was killed, though I don't know if he would connect the dots. (Maybe after a good long talk with Venli though... )

 

[Requiem17]

3 hours ago, PiedPeterPiper said:

Gavilar has been trying to bring about the Everstorm 

 

This theory makes way more sense than mine. I like that this theory fits more with this is Hoid telling a historical story, and also foreshadowing a revelation from the end of the book that it's in. 

[Harbour]

To me both Fleet Running story and Girl Who Looked Up are metaphorical representation of Kaladin and Shallan character arcs. It may be interprented either as foreshadowing, or the lesson both need to learn, or the future they have to challenge.

In my opinion both stories represents the beginnings of both character arcs. Kaladin has to run forward, run, run and run, without mercy for himself. Is it good for him? Will he manage to save everyone without sacrificing himself, his own happiness?

Shallan is the girl who has to destroy the wall of delusion she is hiding behind. Will she look up? Will she stood up?

I doubt both characters will meet the same fate as Hoid told him. After all, Brandon's words imply that both Kaladin and Shallan may do better than Fleet and Girl who looked up, in the very end, and ther character arcs will bring them right there.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Harbour

[ArcusCerebellumus]

IMO, both those stories work on many levels. They might have character relevance, in fact, they certainly do, especially to those characters to whom they are being told, but for me, the most obvious parallels are in the history of Roshar. Namely, the Fleet story looks sorta like an exodus from Ashin and Girl Who Looked Up is like the subsequent discovery of surgebinding. I'm not sure, though. Those are just guesses.

[thejopen27]

I mean... they're both allegorical stories that apply to to Shallan and Kaladin. They may or may not have been real people. Fleet is clearly a myth about some past person who may have been a Windrunner and it bears great significance to Kaladin's life and helps him understand the Journey before Destination part of his oath. The Girl who Looked Up (redux) is almost a pandora style creation myth about humans leaving Shinovar and going out into greater Roshar. But it also applies to Shallan as being the one who brings light into the world for others and how she isn't a monster. I think there may be some history lessons in the stories but they're more important in the lessons they teach Kaladin and Shallan.

Edited June 25, 2020 by thejopen27

[Brian coop]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:52 PM, Harbour said:

To me both Fleet Running story and Girl Who Looked Up are metaphorical representation of Kaladin and Shallan character arcs. It may be interprented either as foreshadowing, or the lesson both need to learn, or the future they have to challenge.

In my opinion both stories represents the beginnings of both character arcs. Kaladin has to run forward, run, run and run, without mercy for himself. Is it good for him? Will he manage to save everyone without sacrificing himself, his own happiness?

Shallan is the girl who has to destroy the wall of delusion she is hiding behind. Will she look up? Will she stood up?

I doubt both characters will meet the same fate as Hoid told him. After all, Brandon's words imply that both Kaladin and Shallan may do better than Fleet and Girl who looked up, in the very end, and ther character arcs will bring them right there.

Spoiler warning for RoW and first 5 chapters of secret project 4. I know this is a little late but i was rereading the books and had something to say. Fleet is running and running. He gets to the first mountain and almost gets caugh and dies before he turns the peak. I think this is a representation of when Kal was getting judged by the stormfather but the sphere teft gave him brought him back. Fleet keeps on running but is getting tired and gets to another mountain and barely makes it up and barely stays ahead. This is similar to kal in RoW when he almost dies and fails to save his father but says the 4th ideal. And barely stays ahead. Then fleet gets to shinovar and gets caught and dies but he also stops the storm. We now know that brandon is writing kaladins and szeths story in shinovar. I feel like kaladin will finally get caught in shinovar but may get preserved maybe as a cognitive shadow or maybe something else. I personally really hope kaladin somehow un-splinters honors shard and becomes its new bearer. But also when brandon is reading first 5 chapters of secret project 4  sigzil thought he saw kaladin in the storm years in the future. But he says something like the storms are not special like on roshar. Almost confirming that kaladin could just ride the storm similar to fleet. Thoughts?

[stonehand]

I think it's allegorical forshadowing of Kaladin dying, and his cognitive shadow replaces or melds with Tanavast's and the Stormfather. Ie, Kaladin becomes the Stormfather.

[bmcclure7]

On 6/14/2020 at 8:30 PM, Hen said:

Okay, so we have a pretty good idea that The Girl Who Looked Up is going to be important to some degree, but what about Fleet?

These are the WoB's we have on it. (I might have missed one, but these are the two that seemed important.)

So we know from these that 1. Fleet is likely just a legend and 2.Fleet is foreshadowing something. 

Its also worth note that Hoid mentions fleet is a common story, though Kaladin had never herd it (Maybe a story from another world? though I don't think this is likely) 

The question then becomes, what is Fleet foreshadowing, and has it already been covered in WoR/Oathbringer or is it for RoW and beyond? The obvious answer is that Fleet was to give strength to Kal to save Elhokar in WoR. Personally I believe that its more then that. There's always another secret. Kaladin, in Oathbringer, failed to swear the 4th Ideal. Fleets story has to do with Kal finding the courage to keep running. We know that Rhythm of War has one of Brandons favorite stormlight scenes, and Im hoping that the two are going to be connected.

Thoughts?

Maybe book 5 ends in a last stand and doom battle, a fight they can't win but force a draw at the cost of Kal's life.  Wit did talk about about defeat odium by playing not to win but to force a draw. I thought it refers to the battle of champions but it could go deeper.  

 

I wonder if this is connect to the silence above and below the storm from WoK.

[bmcclure7]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:25 AM, Brian coop said:

Spoiler warning for RoW and first 5 chapters of secret project 4. I know this is a little late but i was rereading the books and had something to say. Fleet is running and running. He gets to the first mountain and almost gets caugh and dies before he turns the peak. I think this is a representation of when Kal was getting judged by the stormfather but the sphere teft gave him brought him back. Fleet keeps on running but is getting tired and gets to another mountain and barely makes it up and barely stays ahead. This is similar to kal in RoW when he almost dies and fails to save his father but says the 4th ideal. And barely stays ahead. Then fleet gets to shinovar and gets caught and dies but he also stops the storm. We now know that brandon is writing kaladins and szeths story in shinovar. I feel like kaladin will finally get caught in shinovar but may get preserved maybe as a cognitive shadow or maybe something else. I personally really hope kaladin somehow un-splinters honors shard and becomes its new bearer. But also when brandon is reading first 5 chapters of secret project 4  sigzil thought he saw kaladin in the storm years in the future. But he says something like the storms are not special like on roshar. Almost confirming that kaladin could just ride the storm similar to fleet. Thoughts?

 If you're right and that means we'll have another confrontation with the stolen father going forward in the next book.