Cammac

The Singers between desolations

20 posts in this topic

We know that the singers only went in to slave form, after the false desolation, with the side effects from imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram. Presumably the listeners took dull for before the this, otherwise they would have joined their kin in slave form.

So what happened to the singers between the desolations? Heres the options I can think of, let's hear your theories.

Did they simply flee and hide as the listeners did?

Did humans and singers live in peace in their own citys each time the void bringers were banished?

Did humans and singers live together and fight along side each other against the void bringers? We have seen that some humans used to fight along side the enemy.

Could border skirmishes or wars have took place between the singers and humans all through history between desolations (before slave form), just without the complete destruction added from the voidbringers?

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59 minutes ago, Cammac said:

Did they simply flee and hide as the listeners did?

The listener histories claim that they used to have their own cities.  They could be talking about the time before humans but I doubt it.

1 hour ago, Cammac said:

Did humans and singers live in peace in their own citys each time the void bringers were banished?

I think the Heralds would have stopped that.

1 hour ago, Cammac said:

Could border skirmishes or wars have took place between the singers and humans all through history between desolations (before slave form), just without the complete destruction added from the voidbringers?

Probably.

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1 hour ago, Cammac said:

Could border skirmishes or wars have took place between the singers and humans all through history between desolations (before slave form), just without the complete destruction added from the voidbringers?

im pretty sure there were.

but the humans would win.

without the Fused and Voidspren, Thunderclasts, etc... the parsh were probably pretty lost and without real leadership.

 

from Oathbringer epigraphs:

"Something must be done about the remnants of Odium's forces. The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation."

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12 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think the Heralds would have stopped that.

That could be said for any of the scenarios, wouldn't it have saved the destruction if the singers were wiped out? Would have been easy with radiants but against the principles of honor.

That's why I find it so interesting, there must have been innocents on both sides of the conflict aswell. 

Maybe both sides were desimated so badly it was a case for both to simply rebuild society until the voidbringers returned and claimed the next generation.

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Just now, Cammac said:

That could be said for any of the scenarios, wouldn't it have saved the destruction if the singers were wiped out?

Easier said then done.

Just now, Cammac said:

Would have been easy with radiants but against the principles of honor.

Not really.  Even without the fused you have to worry about forms of power.  Also if you attack to hard then your defense is going to suffer considering that human civilization was almost gone every desoltion most radiant resources would probably have been spent keeping things from collapsing more and rebuilding them.

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4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Easier said then done.

Not really.  Even without the fused you have to worry about forms of power.  Also if you attack to hard then your defense is going to suffer considering that human civilization was almost gone every desoltion most radiant resources would probably have been spent keeping things from collapsing more and rebuilding them.

Did they have access to voidlight with the voidbringers banished though, as far as I can see it was only the last desolation where Ba-Ado-Mishram figured out how to supply voidlight without odium and the fused.

I agree about civilisation and resources though, possibly the same for the singers aswell as guilt when not under the influence of odium.

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22 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

from Oathbringer epigraphs:

"Something must be done about the remnants of Odium's forces. The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation."

I presumed this was referring to the false desolation when Ba-Ado-Mishram supplied the voidlight. Could be wrong though.

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6 minutes ago, Cammac said:

I presumed this was referring to the false desolation when Ba-Ado-Mishram supplied the voidlight. Could be wrong though.

It does.

7 minutes ago, Cammac said:

Did they have access to voidlight with the voidbringers banished though, as far as I can see it was only the last desolation where Ba-Ado-Mishram figured out how to supply voidlight without odium and the fused.

I agree about civilisation and resources though, possibly the same for the singers aswell as guilt when not under the influence of odium.

If Ba-Ado-Mishram stuck around then so could a lot of lessor voidspren.  Those are all you need for a regular form of power(well that and a highstorm).

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3 minutes ago, Cammac said:

I presumed this was referring to the false desolation when Ba-Ado-Mishram supplied the voidlight. Could be wrong though.

it is. but the false desolation was just that. False.

it was still a time between Desolations when Odiums forces were on Braize and the parsh were still fighting(albeit with forms of power)

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

If Ba-Ado-Mishram stuck around then so could a lot of lessor voidspren.

thats not exactly a strong case.

all nine unmade are always on Roshar. its not like they go to Braize too.

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26 minutes ago, Karger said:

It does.

If Ba-Ado-Mishram stuck around then so could a lot of lessor voidspren.  Those are all you need for a regular form of power(well that and a highstorm).

 

23 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

it is. but the false desolation was just that. False.

it was still a time between Desolations when Odiums forces were on Braize and the parsh were still fighting(albeit with forms of power)

A form of power would be similar to war form without voidlight though, as a radient is without stormlight. The false desolation was false because it was only forms of power with investiture from Ba-Ado-Mishram not odium. That's if i havent misunderstood it completely.

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24 minutes ago, Cammac said:

The false desolation was false because it was only forms of power with investiture from Ba-Ado-Mishram not odium.

that investiture is presumably the same though. its just coming from different sources.

its False because Oduim's forces weren't actually coming back from Braize(like they would be if it was an actual Desolation)

it was just a unmade that figured out how to supply forms of power & voidlight(which is normally not around between desolation. i think?) and everyone thought it was a Desolation because of the Voidlight and forms of power.

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2 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

that investiture is presumably the same though. its just coming from different sources.

its False because Oduim's forces weren't actually coming back from Braize(like they would be if it was an actual Desolation)

it was just a unmade that figured out how to supply forms of power & voidlight(which is normally not around between desolation. i think?) and everyone thought it was a Desolation because of the Voidlight and forms of power.

That's my point, between desolations the singers had no void light to power their surges with odium and the fused confined to braize. For them then to continue fighting with humans and radiants would be suicide. 

That's why I'm curious as to what the singers did between the desolations. Cant wait for RoW, hopefully we will learn more about Rosharan history.

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2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

thats not exactly a strong case.

all nine unmade are always on Roshar. its not like they go to Braize too.

Ulim got out before Taln broke.  Nale though summoning some voidspren was fairly normal for parshe forces even between desolations.

2 hours ago, Cammac said:

A form of power would be similar to war form without voidlight though, as a radient is without stormlight. The false desolation was false because it was only forms of power with investiture from Ba-Ado-Mishram not odium. That's if i havent misunderstood it completely.

Nightform does not seem to require voidlight and it would certainly give an edge.

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29 minutes ago, Karger said:

Ulim got out before Taln broke.

i know that its happened. i was just wondering why you compared to BAM, the Unmade staying on Roshar is completely different than the Voidspren and Fused staying on Roshar

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Karger said:

Nightform does not seem to require voidlight

we've never seen Nighform before, what make you think that?

 
Edited by Eternal Khol
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38 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

we've never seen Nighform before, what make you think that?

It is said by the songs paraphrased "we can't wear this form again" indicating that it is possible.  The listeners have to the best of my knowledge no way of getting voidlight.

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4 minutes ago, Karger said:

It is said by the songs paraphrased "we can't wear this form again" indicating that it is possible.  The listeners have to the best of my knowledge no way of getting voidlight.

I think, you’re thinking of Smokeform 

 


here’s the Nightform song

 
Nightform predicting what will be,
The form of shadows, mind to forsee.
As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered.
A new storm will come, someday to break.
A new storm a new world to make.
A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens. 
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47 minutes ago, Karger said:

Ulim got out before Taln broke.  Nale though summoning some voidspren was fairly normal for parshe forces even between desolations.

Nightform does not seem to require voidlight and it would certainly give an edge.

 

22 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

we've never seen Nighform before, what make you think that?

 

Nightform predicting what will be, 
As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered. 
A new storm will come, someday to break. 
A new storm a new world to make. 
A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens.[1

Think that's all we have on it so far, sounds like a form of future sight. I could see how the second line would suggest it worked while the gods were on braize. Cant see how any future sight would work without investiture.

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Just now, Eternal Khol said:

I think, you’re thinking of Smokeform 

MM.  Your right.

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4 minutes ago, Karger said:

MM.  Your right.

They also say that Smokeform is a form of Power and dont Forms of Power use voidlight?

The singers in Warform weren’t using voidlight, right? is it just the Fused and Unmade?

Edited by Eternal Khol
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