Brandon Sanderson makes comment in support of BLM

[NattyBo]

He finally said the storming words. So happy. 

 

 

I do hope someone lets him know many fans are not on reddit (twitter, for example, has many people still asking). Might be good for Adam, or whoever runs it, to note that Brandon does not read the tweets (based on this statement).

Edited June 9, 2020 by NattyBo

[NattyBo]

Brandon followed up to my thank you reply (which read: Thank you for taking the time to respond and explain. I hope you understand that I was coming from a place of deep admiration, without which there could have been no disappointment in the first place.)

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by NattyBo

[Comatose]

That second response is soo Brandon.  He's definitely more of a "write an essay" type of guy.  

Glad to see a response from him.  

[Honorless]

Bet that meant a lot to a lot of people. This was a relief to see

[Kaymyth]

3 hours ago, Comatose said:

That second response is soo Brandon.  He's definitely more of a "write an essay" type of guy.  

Glad to see a response from him.  

Write an essay, spend 3 1/2 months revising it, accidentally end up with a novella.

[ConfusedCow]

I'm glad Brandon spoke out.  The BLM movement is currently in a struggle for legitimacy.  The support of public figures and a broader community is the difference between politicians treating protestors as citizens participating in democracy or treating them as violent dangerous radicals.  I applaud Brandon for his well thought out political position and his writing which shows a rare sensitivity to racial issues in the epic fantasy genre.  I also applaud Nattybo who I think was right to pursue this matter.  

 

 

[NattyBo]

Brandon posted more overnight: 

 

 

 

[king of nowhere]

i am surprised you could take brandon's silence for lack of support, as all his books show his faith in humanity, and specifically in the lowly. take bridge 4, where the people who were discarded by society are turned into an elite unit. take elantris, where you have a savage society turned into an utopia. think of marasi, with her "social reforms prevent crime more than the police" and "if you have to stop a criminal by shooting at him, society already failed".

does the guy who writes this strikes you as a white suprematist?

[ConfusedCow]

@kingofnowhere , speaking for myself I felt confident in my understanding of Brandon's politics based on reading his books.  He needed to make that post anyway.  Public statements like Sanderson's, or Obama's, or Target's, or even the quite insincere comments of Roger Goodell serve to legitimize the demands and protect the safety of protestors.  They need to be explicit and clear for mayors and police chiefs, not buried in hundreds of pages of implication and analogy.  Also on second thought, Roger Goodell can go to Braize.

[NattyBo]

26 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

i am surprised you could take brandon's silence for lack of support, as all his books show his faith in humanity, and specifically in the lowly. take bridge 4, where the people who were discarded by society are turned into an elite unit. take elantris, where you have a savage society turned into an utopia. think of marasi, with her "social reforms prevent crime more than the police" and "if you have to stop a criminal by shooting at him, society already failed".

does the guy who writes this strikes you as a white suprematist?

I dunno, does the writer of Harry Potter strike you as a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist? I got from her books the exact opposite in terms of accepting people for who they are, the importance of inclusion in society.... but now we see where that author's true heart lies (if you aren't aware, JK Rowling has made many transphobic statements including in the last few days).

 

I can only speak for myself, but it meant a lot to me that Brandon said the words, and he didn't equivocate. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by NattyBo

[king of nowhere]

on the other hand, brandon's concern that celebrities will sway opinions in ignorance is also well founded. I can speak my mind freely and if i happen to say something stupid about things i don't understand, there's nothing wrong with it, i'll just be ignored. but someone like sanderson saying something stupid because he does not understand a topic will have people pick it up and resonate.

seeing it from outside, i don't know what's it really like and i am surprised about phrases like "legitimize the demands" and "protect the protestors". I mean, the protestors are asking that the police stop killing random people because some officer is too trigger-happy or he had a bad day and is venting out on some poor fellow. what's there to legitimize? there shouldn't be any question about it. especially not in a country that is proud of a long democratic tradition and that is still strongly influenced by its origin as a rebel colony against an oppressive empire.

You even have the constitution declaring that everyone has a right to bear arms, because the people must be able to rebel against the government if the government turns oppressive. I would expect one such country would be extremely jealous of individual rights; that in such a country the police can stop people and beat them up for no real reason, and mostly get away with it, is a living contradiction. seen from the outside world, the president supporting the protests in hong kong and then shouting LAW AND ORDER and deploying the army for the protests in his country, the whole business looks like a joke. it would look like a joke, if people hadn't died for it.

on the other hand, the police also cannot be blamed entirely, because their lives are on the line. many policemen are shot because they try to be nice and the other guy pulls a gun - a downside of having weapons sold freely because of the right of revolt.

From my outsider perspective, the real problem in usa is social inequality. no help for people in need. no perspective of better future for those who live in the ghettos. america spends a pittance on social help compared to european countries. it stems from the fierce indepentent spirit of the country; my life, my problems, his life, his problems. And i actually like that ideal. I clean up my own mess, and I hate that I also have to clean up someone else's because they did something stupid. I worked hard to do something with my life and i hate that other people would not work hard and i have to work harder to provide for them.

Unfortunately, this way of thinking does not work, because everything is interconnected. if your neighbor drop off school because he was too lazy, that's his problem, and you may not want to help. but if he can't find a job and he breaks into your house to rob you, it's become your problem. and if he robs me, it's become my problem, even though I had nothing to do with the whole business in the first place. worse, the whole "i worked hard and they didn't" is not as accurate as we like to think. some research shows poor people often work harder, and get rewarded less. ultimately, people who grow up in the ghettos stay ignorant because they can't afford the fancy schools, so then they can't afford the fancy jobs and stay poor, and their children will also live in the ghettos, and the cycle goes on. Some people will manage, individually, to break it, but not enough to really change things. incidentally, lots of black people live in ghettos, because their parents lived there, and their parent's parents, all the way back since they were discriminated by the law. if more black people had a chance to move upwards in society, less of them would turn to crime, and it would also help with racism.

in europe we spend more money on social policies, we have less inequality, and less crime. and while this means some people will just idle their lives off the work of someone else, most of those people recovered from the ghettos actually become good contributing citizens. like in bridge 4, you got to rescue people like rock and sigzil, even though you got one moash amid the group. though the real test for europe will be how well we'll handle the current wave of immigrants, if in 30 years their children will be well-integrated or they will be living in ghettos and making troubles.

everything is interconnected. my neighboor problem is my problem; not because i like my neighboor or because i am charitable, but because if his problem is not solved, then eventually, somehow, it will find a way to reach me. and america has a hard time with this idea because it stinks of communism, and americans spent 50 years opposing the "dirty commies". but perhaps once you take away the dictatorship and police state and gulag system, perhaps there's something there's worth salvaging. perhaps you can take the best of both world. else, you are forced to close off your undesirables in reserves, and have an army to keep them in.

and perhaps i don't know social issues enough and i am saying something stupid, but I'm not a celebrity, I don't have fans and followers hanging on my lips ready to do something stupid if i give the wrong word, so i can afford to speak my mind and perhaps make mistakes. brandon cannot.

[NattyBo]

He commented more, in reply to this post, which I have to link for the context of this reply. Also mods if me continuing to post his reddit statements here on this matter violates the rules please let me know, not trying to be disrespectful.

 

I felt it was very germane to the question many 17th sharders seem to have asked, namely, “doesn’t the content of his work speak for itself?”

Original poster, followed by Brandon’s response -

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by NattyBo

[LadyLameness]

5 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

i am surprised you could take brandon's silence for lack of support, as all his books show his faith in humanity, and specifically in the lowly. take bridge 4, where the people who were discarded by society are turned into an elite unit. take elantris, where you have a savage society turned into an utopia. think of marasi, with her "social reforms prevent crime more than the police" and "if you have to stop a criminal by shooting at him, society already failed".

 

I think the thing with silence is that, the it can cause that niggle of doubt as to why someone is being silent and can play into fears of the worst case scenario. At least for me, once that doubt is there, even if I believe it's wrong, it's hard to prevent the 'what if's' from intruding on my brain regardless of how else I might feel. So many people are looking for validation right now (as I believe they should be), and hoping that the person that they look up to, that they respect, will help to dispel that doubt and confirm that they matter.

I found Brandon's responses to be written very eloquently and appreciate him acknowledging his lack of expertise on these issues, and his desire to listen to those better placed to speak out. At the same time, I am glad that he has addressed this. I think it does a world of good for the Sanderson community (regardless of whether they congregate here, or on Reddit, or Tumblr, or Facebook) to know that the person we admire supports those who are disadvantaged. 

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

From my outsider perspective, the real problem in usa is social inequality. no help for people in need. no perspective of better future for those who live in the ghettos. america spends a pittance on social help compared to european countries. it stems from the fierce indepentent spirit of the country; my life, my problems, his life, his problems. And i actually like that ideal. I clean up my own mess, and I hate that I also have to clean up someone else's because they did something stupid. I worked hard to do something with my life and i hate that other people would not work hard and i have to work harder to provide for them.

Unfortunately, this way of thinking does not work, because everything is interconnected.

I really appreciate how you have considered your own personal beliefs in the wider context. I'm not American so can't comment as someone who has lived experiences from within the country, but am aware of the long history of individualism and personal liberty that has been part of the society since its inception, and that it is still a strong value that is held today. But, and I do hope this does not come across incorrectly, I have also come across cases during my studies of the US, where individualism has been prized above all else and it has led to shutting out other issues and viewing matters are completely independent from each other. So it is welcoming to see someone who believes in individualism, but who also takes a holistic view of the world. 

@NattyBo - completely fine for you to post Brandon's responses. As you mentioned, not everyone is on Reddit, so publicising Brandon's responses helps to reach more of the fandom who are based here and don't use other platforms. 

[Karger]

I am glad that Brandon likes to listen more then speak.  Sure not speaking can certainly cause harm but I also worry about what well meaning people do when they don't take the time to educate themselves.

[Singer]

Just putting this out there: It is understandable for the poster on Reddit, or anyone else reading this thread, to associate "Mormonism" with conservatism. However, there are millions of people, people on every continent, who practice that religion. Are there racist folks in that church? You betcha! Have the policies of that church always represented equality for people of color. No. BUT, this church is also one that has sought out to ally itself with the NAACP, and really worked to improve the way it's policies and members interact in that regard. So, it may be surprising if you aren't familiar with it, but LDS faith wouldn't be at all at odds with BLM. To my way of thinking it should be supportive of this movement, but members aren't really told how to vote or think politically, so there is a lot of variance in thought and views amongst actual members. So, yeah it is totally reasonable to equate Brandon's faith with a universally conservative world view, but the reality is that there is a lot more room for more progressive and liberal political thought than most people would assume. Utah is really conservative as a whole, but there are a handful of democrats here! I know all 5 of them! (that's a joke. there's more than that...)

[ConfusedCow]

Quote

seeing it from outside, i don't know what's it really like and i am surprised about phrases like "legitimize the demands" and "protect the protestors". I mean, the protestors are asking that the police stop killing random people because some officer is too trigger-happy or he had a bad day and is venting out on some poor fellow. what's there to legitimize? there shouldn't be any question about it. especially not in a country that is proud of a long democratic tradition and that is still strongly influenced by its origin as a rebel colony against an oppressive empire.

The people killed aren't really random and they aren't being killed because of a bad day.  The existent and extent of systemic racism in policing (and more generally) is very much not a given fact in American politics.  Reading your post in it's entirety, I suspect racism in America is just different from racism in Poland. I know next to nothing about Poland. I certainly don't understand racism there.  I have a vague recollection of watching soccer 'hooligans' on the news, something about antisemitism.  Racism where I live, North Carolina, is a kind of daily experience.  It's old and violent, it reaches into schools and workplaces, hospitals and courthouses.  I don't think I'm the right person to explain it, maybe read Tim Tyson's, Blood Done Sign My Name.   Anyway the point is the protests are highly contentious and sometimes dangerous to be a part of.  Just take my word for it. Friends of mine were attacked by police. I washed their faces with milk.  

[king of nowhere]

Quote

I wonder if this might be an incorrect assumption, and if in fact the opposite may be generally true. I can only provide my own experience as a data point here, which is of course the most anecdotal of evidence. However, since I think my experience is not an especially atypical one it may still be useful.

I've been a very dedicated fan for a decade or so now. Not quite to the level of the most active people on forums like these, but I own virtually everything you've written, I have your site bookmarked, and I read place like 17th shard and Coppermind. All of which is to say I'm probably in a fairly high percentile for knowledge of background Sanderson information (like past statements and political leanings). And even so, for many many years, the only things I knew about your political/social stances were: one, that you were a devout Mormon with deep ties to the church, and, two, the anti-gay marriage post from 2007.

I see. interesting approach. i knew of brandon's political stances from reading his commentaries, back in the time when he still wrote them. in particular stuff like trying to give every opinion a fair representation. also, all the charity auctions he takes, that were occasionally advertised on his site. this tipped me that, regardless of other political views, brandon is a good guy (be careful to equate conservative with oppressive; there are many good conservative values).

that came only from reading the front page of his site, so i assumed it was more common knowledge than it actually was.

7 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

The people killed aren't really random and they aren't being killed because of a bad day.  The existent and extent of systemic racism in policing (and more generally) is very much not a given fact in American politics.  Reading your post in it's entirety, I suspect racism in America is just different from racism in Poland. I know next to nothing about Poland. I certainly don't understand racism there.  I have a vague recollection of watching soccer 'hooligans' on the news, something about antisemitism.  Racism where I live, North Carolina, is a kind of daily experience.  It's old and violent, it reaches into schools and workplaces, hospitals and courthouses.  I don't think I'm the right person to explain it, maybe read Tim Tyson's, Blood Done Sign My Name.   Anyway the point is the protests are highly contentious and sometimes dangerous to be a part of.  Just take my word for it. Friends of mine were attacked by police. I washed their faces with milk.  

yes, that's something that's difficult to understand from my perspective (italian, by the way, not polish).

in europe we are facing a recrudescence of racism tied to the great migration wave of the last decade, but it's racism linked to social problems, not really to race. millions of immigrants went to europe without speaking the language of the new country, without having the qualifications to work, during a time when the economy had a hard time providing jobs even to the natives, so of course a lot of those immigrants turned to crime, or were recruited by the mafia. or came to live on charity, or on social service money. and of course there are the cultural issues, especially regarding women's rights, for most immigrants come from countries where those topics are... let's say, not particularly progressive. and not all are willing to adapt. and so of course the population is suspicious of racial minorities.

but our problem with racism is all there. nobody thinks that immigrants are worse because of race. you hear people giving racist-sounding speeches in pubs, but if you confront them about their african coworker, or the arab guy at the kebab kiosk, or the chinese waitress, and they say "oh, but those guys are ok, they work for a living and respect our laws. it's not with them that i have a problem". i saw a youtube video of an afroamerican exchange student commenting on it, and she said that racism is the wrong concept, it's more xenophobia - which is not completely injustified, since it stems from actual social problems. Hence why i'm saying that those immigrant's children will be the measure of our success or failure in handling the whole immigration issue.

I know that in some places in america it's different, that there's people who actually say "those guys work for a living and respect our laws, but i still have a problem with them, because race". it's hard to understand, though. my first instinct to deal with racism is still to consider it a social problem of disadvantaged people living in the ghettos, and treat it accordingly. which, anyway, shouldn't hurt.

Edited June 11, 2020 by king of nowhere

[Greywatch]

8 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I see. interesting approach. i knew of brandon's political stances from reading his commentaries, back in the time when he still wrote them. in particular stuff like trying to give every opinion a fair representation. also, all the charity auctions he takes, that were occasionally advertised on his site. this tipped me that, regardless of other political views, brandon is a good guy (be careful to equate conservative with oppressive; there are many good conservative values).

Just in case you didn't know, you're responding to the Reddit post of someone not on the forums here.

[ConfusedCow]

@kingofnowhere, sorry for my incorrect assumption.  Also, I find your opinions on socialism and immigration quite agreeable.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by ConfusedCow
typo

[agrabes]

Sanderson's first response really speaks to me.  This is a challenging time for everyone in our country.  And I think one of the hardest things to do is for each person to find their way to contribute.  And for those of us who are more moderate, or even conservative politically it's tough for us to find our place.  But I also think that moderates like myself are the most important people to these kinds of movements - we make up most of the country and we need to speak up and stand up for what is right.

For me personally, the struggle is that I agree with the principles of the BLM movement and believe our country's criminal justice system is in desperate need of major reform, but find little in common personally or politically with many of the voices who support the movement.  I don't agree with the aggressive way many people discuss the movement on social media.  Not aggression against people who are oppressing others, but aggression against those they feel are not enthusiastic enough in support of the movement.  I think outrage does absolutely no good unless it's aimed at a specific goal.  There's no value in adding one more voice of rage.  And on social media, if you are not a voice of rage, you are considered part of the problem.  So how do I personally support this important movement?

Unlike Sanderson, I have the luxury of not being a major media figure.  I have the luxury of addressing these issues in private, on a one to one basis with those I care about.  I have the luxury to wait and throw my voice in when I can help make a meaningful change to enact real improvements.  And importantly, I recognize that I have the luxury of not being someone that this impacts directly on a personal level.  So, I personally have chosen to do what I think Sanderson would have preferred to do - keep an eye on the situation, keep learning, advocate for change and reform privately in the way that is sincere and consistent with my own values rather than those of the social media mob, and strike when the time is right.

[Orlion Blight]

It's honestly about time. Now's a time for courage and conviction. 

I honestly thought he was silent as more of a way to not harm his career/brand. I remember his post on gay marriage a long while back, and the pushback he recieved seemed to teach him in the immediate moment: "my stated opinions can harm my budding career."

People want to know that the people they read and supplement their income have some morality, and in some cases that they care about their diverse group of fans. J K Rowling has continually failed in this, I'm hoping Brandon doesn't.

 

[Iarwainiel I]

@NattyBo - re: your last re-post from Reddit where Brandon mentioned John Scalzi - - I was thinking of Scalzi right away while reading through this thread. Politics and activism are very much part of Scalzi's makeup, and his views do come out in his books ... but he writes much shorter books and way fewer of them than Brandon does. I admire both of them for approaching issues in ways that align with the way they choose to impact the world, as well as their morality: each is unique, and both are needed, and many more - & more diverse - voices besides. Sci-fi/fantasy fans are IMO the most idealistic people on the planet, and our hopes and vision of a better world can and should be a powerful force for good.

[Toaster Retribution]

I am very happy with Brandons answer to this, as he echoes my feelings. Celebrity culture is, to me, something that at times feels quite fake and more like a trend thing (especially considering that all of them generally push in the same direction no matter the question). But protesting the injustice that black people are facing is important. So, as Brandon himself seems to think, this is a delicate matter, and I think that being careful about using your voice, as a celebrity with a ton of fans, is a very good thing. It shows both humility and a sense of responsibility. It also means that whenever Brandon actually does comment on things, we know that it is genuine, and thought-through.

I am really glad that Brandon isn’t the type to try and shepherd his fans into a political party or opinion, and also that he thinks before he talks. I notice that a lot of celebrities, some of which I love, are adding toxicity to debates, which I think is the really dangerous thing. I hate the incredibly polarized debating climate, and at times, I am truly confused by how so many good people with platforms add to that polarization. 

I guess I’m mostly just glad that Brandon is more of the ”I don’t really do activism” kind of guy. 

[NattyBo]

I think the takeaway that Brandon isn't doing activism isn't reading the full extent of his posts on the matter - he did outright say he supports the BLM movement and police reform, is donating to things behind the scenes, etc.

I see the criticism of the celebrity culture that Brandon and many posters here seem to echo as valid but also as a sort of distraction for people who are uncomfortable with their favorite author, musician, whatever, saying the words, in sort of the opposite way that folks like me were super uncomfortable with him NOT saying the words.  Just my opinion and hope that made sense, not trying to antagonize or criticize. 

I'm still hoping he will do a blog post that will discuss this in more detail, talk about his discomfort initially speaking out, how we as a fanbase can help him help, etc. But, anyway, as I said with the OP: I'm just glad he said the words.

Edited June 14, 2020 by NattyBo

[Toaster Retribution]

9 hours ago, NattyBo said:

I think the takeaway that Brandon isn't doing activism isn't reading the full extent of his posts on the matter - he did outright say he supports the BLM movement and police reform, is donating to things behind the scenes, etc.

I should have phrased it better: isn’t doing public activism.