I am disappointed in Brandon's silence

[Comatose]

Reminder - this is an emotionally charged subject which could easily become contentious.  Please take care to voice opinions as opinions rather than fact, and try not to use provocative or dismissive language.  Remember we are all friends and hopefully this challenging and very important discussion can be conducted with sensitivity and civility. 

Thanks all.  

Edit: The post that prompted this reminder is now hidden.  

[Honorless]

@NattyBo I agree with you. It is disconcerting to hear nothing but silence from Brandon on this.

As for remaining apolitical, whether one thinks something is worth taking a political stance over or not, is itself a political stance.

Agreed with @Karger & the mods as well. Some people just aren't inclined to stick their neck out for others. And it damnation right is something that you're allowed to feel offended over! But we can wait to see his response on this.

 

⚠ description of graphic violence ⚠ 

Spoiler

Just saw the video, George Floyd was having a panic attack and was already having difficulty breathing and then the cops strangulated him for 5+mins by sitting on his neck & torso till he was salivating and bleeding out on the street in the open.

And people are still trying to defend these cops.

Or arguing that events like this aren't indicative of anything

 

Seeing the responses to this as well, there are multiple videos where cops attacked protesters, supporters and journalists.

News was mostly only interested in covering violent protests. Slurs like fags (LGBT protesters have joined in support, it's pride month after all) and stuff are flying. People have somehow managed to throw the trans community under the bus again.

(Although they're clearly only using this politically I'll have to say they're right on one thing: please don't go out right now with the pandemic and please maintain social distancing.)

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by R J

[AonEne]

9 hours ago, NattyBo said:

Totally cowardly stance. He can afford to make his thoughts known one way or another, just like the rest of us in America. 

Maybe ask what responsibilities Brandon has with a platform his size, rather than deflecting about his 'rights'. 

I’m going to respectfully but strongly disagree with the idea that not commenting on an issue like this makes Brandon a bad person. For background, I also echo the experience of not knowing this was going on until a couple days after it had started, and up until this post, I haven’t had a chance to speak on the matter myself, though I have been reading about the topic and am in full support of those who are peacefully protesting (especially the ones doing it in safe ways or ways less likely to spread the virus). 

While it is fantastic for people to speak up right now and help out in every way possible, and silence can mean a lack of agreement with the BLM movement (which, for the record, I just don’t think fits with Brandon as a person. He’s so nice and in favor of equality that it would shock me if he was against it), it does not have to mean that.

In the same way we shouldn’t shame people for needing to take a break from the news or from actively writing about what is happening, we also shouldn’t shame them for staying out of it entirely. It’s hard for some people to face the violence, the injustice, the pain, and while I believe that is no excuse for perpetuating it, it is a reason for abstaining. Maybe Brandon is worried he doesn’t have enough information. Maybe he doesn’t want his words to be misconstrued. Whatever the reason, I don’t think we should guilt people for not being on the front lines. 

Brandon also has a family, his wife and three children. As much as he has a responsibility to support human rights, he has a responsibility to take care of them and make sure his family isn’t attacked. Would they be if he started speaking out on social media? We can’t know, but I understand if he doesn’t want to take that risk. 

And as has been mentioned before in this thread, we don’t know if he intends to say anything yet. It’s very possible that he might if he was asked in a livestream. Or again, he might choose to stay out of the entire thing.

Not wanting to do everything you can and put yourself out there doesn’t ever make you evil. It doesn’t make you a hero either. But it doesn’t make you evil. 

Thanks to the mods for making sure this thread stays relatively calm, you guys are doing great in these stressful times.  

[AonEne]

1 hour ago, Edonidd said:

"George RR Martin is not your slontze."

your filter not only ruined a good quote it takes away whatever effect it might have had. 

Don’t worry, the intention came across. No need to get upset at the filter or mods  

[Emi]

Wait... I got lost. What's BLM?

[Honorless]

Just now, Emi said:

Wait... I got lost. What's BLM?

It's the Black Lives Matter movement

[AonEne]

1 minute ago, Emi said:

Wait... I got lost. What's BLM?

Black Lives Matter.  Edit: barely ninjaed 

Hey by the way, for those of you who know more about race activism than me, is ‘black’ in that case being used as an umbrella term or specifically? 

Edited June 4, 2020 by AonEne

[Emi]

4 minutes ago, R J said:

It's the Black Lives Matter movement

Oh, ok, so I'm definately supporting this. In my country there is no big racism (I think) and I have an uncle from Cuba, who is one of the kindest people I ever met

Edited June 4, 2020 by Emi

[Honorless]

3 minutes ago, Emi said:

Oh, ok, so I'm definately support this. In my country there is no big racism (I think) and I have an uncle from Cuba, who is one of the kindest people I ever met

Wish it was the same where I am.

Or heck, it would be nice if the discussion regarding racism wasn't all imported from elsewhere and more grounded in the people groups of our nations.

Or lack of alienation and more acknowledgement of the attacks on Kenyan, Ugandan & Nigerian students. That would be nice too.

* sigh *

Edited June 4, 2020 by R J

[Emi]

Why we are so nervous here? I know this is delicate topic, but don't we all agree about that?

[AonEne]

7 minutes ago, Emi said:

Why we are so nervous here? I know this is delicate topic, but don't we all agree about that?

I’m personally concerned with what Edonidd said, and their tone makes me worry, but it’s possible that it’s just a misunderstanding. 

[Honorless]

2 hours ago, Edonidd said:

Defense of what?  My whole point is that no matter how important or capricious you yourself might think something is, you don't get to project that onto others.  And you don't get to demand a reaction from anyone.

 

At no point in time did I ever bring my own views on BLM into anything.

Comparing political views with fav food or bedroom activities is not okay, much less lives.

Edited June 4, 2020 by R J

[LadyLameness]

It looks like this allegory has gone in an unintended direction and that conversation should move away from discussing it further - I think everyone in this thread deserves benefit of the doubt that they are not deliberately trying to cause offense or raise tensions and it is worth remembering that written word does not always come across as intended. 

Remember that you can report posts if you think they need to be reviewed and to also take a step back from the conversation if your response if going to further heighten the tension. This is moving into personal territory and people ending up on the defensive will make this conversation very unpleasant, very quickly. 
 

[NattyBo]

I think I’d rather just close the topic if every response from a mod is going to equivocate. 
 

A poster literally compared black lives to a food item preference. Of course people will take that personally. 
 

Besides the fact that the implication is that I’m demanding something from Brandon or feel owed. Again, expressing disappointment and asking for comment is not demanding.

[Honorless]

4 minutes ago, NattyBo said:

I think I’d rather just close the topic if every response from a mod is going to equivocate. 
 

A poster literally compared black lives to a food item preference, but hey all opinions are equally valid I guess. Of course people will take that personally. 
 

Besides the fact that the implication is that I’m demanding something from Brandon or feel owed. Again, expressing disappointment and asking for comment is not demanding.

I too would like to express my discontent regarding this. Mod response here is underwhelming compared to what was brought against Pathfinder for much, much, much more minor offense

[AonEne]

3 minutes ago, R J said:

I too would like to express my discontent regarding this. Mod response here is underwhelming compared to what was brought against Pathfinder for much, much, much more minor offense

The mods have a responsibility to deescalate the situation and try to placate everyone, regardless of personal opinions. They do do a bunch that we don’t see in PMs, so it is possible that more action is being taken on that front. (I would hope so, but that’s up to them.) 

[Honorless]

9 minutes ago, AonEne said:

The mods have a responsibility to deescalate the situation and try to placate everyone, regardless of personal opinions. They do do a bunch that we don’t see in PMs, so it is possible that more action is being taken on that front. (I would hope so, but that’s up to them.) 

I am aware, I have posted contentious content before. *sigh* I hope so too.

 

Sorry about the pressure you guys, but this is far too important.

Edited June 4, 2020 by R J

[AonEne]

8 minutes ago, R J said:

I am aware, I have posted contentious content before. 

Sorry if I came off as patronizing you or something, that definitely wasn’t my intention - I know you know, I was saying it for the whole thread and quoting you because that was the post I was going off of. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by AonEne

[Honorless]

2 minutes ago, AonEne said:

Sorry if I came off as patronizing you or something, that definitely wasn’t my intention - I know you know, I was saying it for the whole thread and quoting you because that was the post I was going off of. 

No problem. I came to you for help on the same topic like 4 times didn't I? 

[LadyLameness]

Moderation is done in the manner that the staff, as a team, deem is the best approach, and generally does not happen in public as general members are not required to be privvy to those conversations and we will be conducting them privately. I think it's clear to everyone that this is a delicate topic and the times the staff have stepped in, have been when we have seen a raising of tension and wanted to move the conversation on before it hit boiling point. Me jumping in before was not to speak about content, but to put the conversation back on a course that didn't end in a shouting match. We are here to try and facilitate the discussion so it can continue progressing and by doing so we need to step back and view things from that perspective - we are trying to be impartial so that discussion can continue. 

We generally do not close topics on request unless they have reached a point where discussion is no longer possible. Speaking generally to everyone, as I suggested before, and as has been suggested on topics in the past - if you need a break, or wish to disengage with the discussion here then please make the decision for yourself and step back. If you want to stop interacting entirely that is a very legitimate choice to make and notifications can be turned off at the top of the thread, if you wish. 

If people wish to continue discussing this topic then they can do so, but as you're all likely very aware by this point, it has the capability to get heated quickly. If you do wish to keep discussing points then please be civil. People should be able to express their disappointment and that emotion is valid. But for this to be a discussion and not a one sided street then people also need to consider that others may not be disappointed. It is not okay for either side to try and delegitimize how others feel and I am sorry that you have felt that way NattyBo. 

So please, decide what is best for you, and if you wish to continue discussing this topic then be civil and be aware of the assumptions you're making when engaging with others. 

[NattyBo]

Just so I'm being clear: It is not a violation of the Shard TOS to compare Black Lives to a food item/auto erotic asphyxiation? Got it.

 

This is not a safe community.  Thank you for your responses nevertheless.  I think I'll see myself out.

Edited June 4, 2020 by NattyBo

[AonEne]

1 minute ago, NattyBo said:

This is not a safe community.  Thank you for your responses nevertheless.  I think I'll see myself out.

I am very, very sorry you feel that way. I promise you it’s normally better than this, and if you ever do require a safe place, my PM doors are always open. I’d love it if you stayed, but if you do go, take care, friend. 

[Honorless]

@NattyBo no! Hey the rest of us are here too, aren't we? Don't let a few people turn you off like that! I hope you stay or at least decide to come back one day! 

[NattyBo]

5 minutes ago, AonEne said:

I am very, very sorry you feel that way. I promise you it’s normally better than this, and if you ever do require a safe place, my PM doors are always open. I’d love it if you stayed, but if you do go, take care, friend. 

 

Just now, R J said:

@NattyBo no! Hey the rest of us are here too, aren't we? Don't let a few people turn you off like that! I hope you stay or at least decide to come back one day! 

No, I truly appreciate the public show of solidarity, but I'm not going to continue in a discussion where the mods insist on both-sidsing it.  I still haven't gotten an answer to my question about whether that comparison violates TOS, but since mods have posted several times since then and it's still there, I'm gonna assume they think it's a valid opinion (because opinions can't be wrong, right?) and doesn't violate the TOS.

[Frustration]

33 minutes ago, NattyBo said:

 

No, I truly appreciate the public show of solidarity, but I'm not going to continue in a discussion where the mods insist on both-sidsing it.  I still haven't gotten an answer to my question about whether that comparison violates TOS, but since mods have posted several times since then and it's still there, I'm gonna assume they think it's a valid opinion (because opinions can't be wrong, right?) and doesn't violate the TOS.

I personally felt that Edonidd was making an example not saying that lives are equivalent of food choice. Oh and here he is

8 minutes ago, Edonidd said:

All I said was that Brandon doesn't owe anyone here a response.

Ah, agree

[COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR]