dannnnnnex

Shallan's Necklace

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I'm rereading WoR right now and in one of the Shallan flashback chapters she is given an Aluminum Necklace from her father. This stuck out to me because the necklace isn't that important, she gives it away to save Jushu soon afterward. Why point out that it's Aluminum, something we know to be important investiture-wise, if it is just gonna be given away? 

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Questioner

Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yes.

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

My thoughts are that it might've been protecting Shallan from the Unmade's influence a little bit but I don't think we actually know if she ever wore the necklace. The only other reason I can think of specifically mentioning Aluminum is to say that maybe Aluminum is common on Roshar? When she tries to give it to the person Jushu owes money to, he says it's worth less than the quality knives her other brothers got. I think Aluminum was mentioned for a very specific reason here but I'm not quite sure what. 

Thoughts? 

EDIT: I have finished my reread and totally forgot that she actually kills her father with this exact necklace so that might be something else to consider. 

Edited by Danex
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15 minutes ago, Danex said:

My thoughts are that it might've been protecting Shallan from the Unmade's influence a little bit but I don't think we actually know if she ever wore the necklace. The

She did.  She mentions that father liked it when she wore it and she had it on when talking to the traders.

18 minutes ago, Danex said:

I think Aluminum was mentioned for a very specific reason here but I'm not quite sure what. 

I think we have WoB confirmation of that.  I can't find it though.  It may be that aluminum cut off some kind of investiture access her father had. 

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

I think we have WoB confirmation of that.  I can't find it though.  It may be that aluminum cut off some kind of investiture access her father had. 

Or it could be showing that aluminum can be soulcast.

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Well the Rosharans at the time of the flashback didn't actually use Investiture at all (except for secretive, isolated incidents/groups). So they wouldn't know anything about the properties of aluminum. It's only use is as a precious and rare metal.

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@RShara do you think perhaps her parents knew more than what was commonly known at the time?

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26 minutes ago, TrдVψLшR 0115 said:

@RShara do you think perhaps her parents knew more than what was commonly known at the time?

Honestly, I doubt it. He really didn't seem all that knowledgeable about much.

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They knew what was told to them by the Ghostbloods and the Skybreakers, which was not much

As for the value of aluminum, I think that was more of a comparison. Aluminum is expensive on Roshar as well.

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I've always wondered why Hoid, the Skybreakers, the Cryptics, the Ghostbloods, and Jasnah(maybe) were all interested in a minor destitute backwater Veden house led by a psychopath.  Speculation, Lin Davar had something important.  Something deeply invested, something twisted, something he doesn't entirely understand.  My guess, Gavilar's little black sphere.  Now where would you hide a little black magic sphere that everyones looking for?  You could do worse than to wrap it in plain aluminum and hang it on the neck of the heavily guarded daughter you always keep close by.   

This is speculation, not theory.  Several times I've worked at fleshing this out to a full theory but I can't quite make the timeline line up.  Shallan's mother dies the same month Gavilar does, Tanat 1167.  That is a stunning coincidence and suggests a connection but it makes the whole story not quite fit.  Gavilar dies, Szeth steals his gem, leaves it in Jah Keved, Lin finds it, the Cryptics send Pattern to bond Shallan, Shallan's mother notices, Shallan's mother contacts the skybreakers or the skybreakers find her, then they try to kill Shallan.  Too much for one month.  There's something I don't understand, about Shallan's mother perhaps.  Also how is Lin using this gemstone to bargain with the Ghostbloods?  Does it contain an unmade?   Is he giving the Ghostbloods voidlight? Why are there two little black spheres?   This theory has haunted me, it seems so close.  Of course, he's angry she tried to trade her necklace for Jushu.  No wonder Lin smiles when he sees her wear it.  How fitting that she uses it kill him?  Any ideas?

Edited by ConfusedCow
typo
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39 minutes ago, ConfusedCow said:

I've always wondered why Hoid, the Skybreakers, the Cryptics, the Ghostbloods, and Jasnah(maybe) were all interested in a minor destitute backwater Veden house led by a psychopath.

Presumably it had something to do with the Unmade that was influencing them.

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3 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

I've always wondered why Hoid, the Skybreakers, the Cryptics, the Ghostbloods, and Jasnah(maybe) were all interested in a minor destitute backwater Veden house led by a psychopath.  Speculation, Lin Davar had something important.  Something deeply invested, something twisted, something he doesn't entirely understand.  My guess, Gavilar's little black sphere.  Now where would you hide a little black magic sphere that everyones looking for?  You could do worse than to wrap it in plain aluminum and hang it on the neck of the heavily guarded daughter you always keep close by.   

This is speculation, not theory.  Several times I've worked at fleshing this out to a full theory but I can't quite make the timeline line up.  Shallan's mother dies the same month Gavilar does, Tanat 1167.  That is a stunning coincidence and suggests a connection but it makes the whole story not quite fit.  Gavilar dies, Szeth steals his gem, leaves it in Jah Keved, Lin finds it, the Cryptics send Pattern to bond Shallan, Shallan's mother notices, Shallan's mother contacts the skybreakers or the skybreakers find her, then they try to kill Shallan.  Too much for one month.  There's something I don't understand, about Shallan's mother perhaps.  Also how is Lin using this gemstone to bargain with the Ghostbloods?  Does it contain an unmade?   Is he giving the Ghostbloods voidlight? Why are there two little black spheres?   This theory has haunted me, it seems so close.  Of course, he's angry she tried to trade her necklace for Jushu.  No wonder Lin smiles when he sees her wear it.  How fitting that she uses it kill him?  Any ideas?

I think theres a good chance the black sphere contains Ba-Ado-Mishram, not sure if it was in the pendant. Maybe the pendant was to try and block patterns bond or at least hide it from the sky breakers.

Where have we seen aluminium so far? I can only think of the sheets hoid gave Azure, the necklace and night bloods sheath. Perhaps the necklace was giving to her father by the ghost bloods as they knew she had begun the bond. Could they know they had to keep her alive for the role she was to play in the desolation and their plans?

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I'm going to reread it too. Maybe I'll find more clues.

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Wiziard said:

I'm going to reread it too. Maybe I'll find more clues.

Perhaps aluminum was indeed used as a valuable and rare metal on Roshar. In that case, its value was the same as our silver or gold. If you want to do some cosplay, you can look for a similar necklace for yourself. I like the sterling silver mood necklace with pendants that change color. It looks like magic and has an esoteric meaning. The mood necklace reacts to changes in body temperature, so the liquid crystals change so that the necklace becomes a lighter color, such as amber or green. There are different interpretations of the colors of the necklace depending on the inner state of the wearer.

Edited by CaliDiaz
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45 minutes ago, CaliDiaz said:

Perhaps aluminum was indeed used as a valuable and rare metal on Roshar. In that case, its value was the same as our silver or gold.

Aluminum was rare before we found out how to make it. Just like purple dye

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Posted (edited)

On 02/06/2020 at 0:19 AM, dannnnnnex said:

This stuck out to me because the necklace isn't that important, she gives it away to save Jushu soon afterward. Why point out that it's Aluminum, something we know to be important investiture-wise, if it is just gonna be given away? 

She tried to give it away, but the debt collectors gave it back. Also, she used it to strangle her father to death, so I wouldn't call it unimportant.

 

Edit: Nevermind, you edited your post to mention that very thing.

Also, this question is one of the main arguments I have in favor of my Chanarach is Lin Davar, not Mama Davar theory.

Edited by Veez
Can't read
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On 6/1/2020 at 10:13 PM, RShara said:

Well the Rosharans at the time of the flashback didn't actually use Investiture at all (except for secretive, isolated incidents/groups). So they wouldn't know anything about the properties of aluminum. It's only use is as a precious and rare metal.

They still used some investiture, at least among the rich. The Alethi had a bunch of soulcasters for example (and other nations had a couple), and fabrials were were all over. (For example, there were mentions of "half-shard" shields that were fabrials that could block shardblades, and those are probably stuffed with a decent enough amount of investiture to block shardblades)

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It's fascinating when old threads like these get revived by a random necropost. Now that we have access to the SA5 prologue, I'm sure many of the skeptics have come around to the idea that Lin Davar may have known about aluminum's properties.

If the presence of even a small amount of aluminum can disrupt the influence of the unmade, perhaps Shallan inadvertently interfered with her father's connection to whichever unmade was sustaining him when she strangled him with the aluminum necklace. If she had tried another material, maybe it wouldn't have worked -- her father would have been consumed by the unmade, and may have killed his children in a bloody rage.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced -- Brandon is a ridiculously detail-conscious fellow, after all.

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Posted (edited)

On 2022-06-09 at 0:23 PM, Olmund said:

It's fascinating when old threads like these get revived by a random necropost. Now that we have access to the SA5 prologue, I'm sure many of the skeptics have come around to the idea that Lin Davar may have known about aluminum's properties.

If the presence of even a small amount of aluminum can disrupt the influence of the unmade, perhaps Shallan inadvertently interfered with her father's connection to whichever unmade was sustaining him when she strangled him with the aluminum necklace. If she had tried another material, maybe it wouldn't have worked -- her father would have been consumed by the unmade, and may have killed his children in a bloody rage.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced -- Brandon is a ridiculously detail-conscious fellow, after all.

Or potentially, killing him with silver prevented his secrets from being taken at death. 
 

That would actually explain why an unmade was around. Maybe it was gathering intel, but the aluminum necklace messed that up. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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